HerrKingsley
Refugee
Have you noticed that no one is complaining about gates on workbench or cement mixer?.. so that analogy..
PC gamestage and progression, punative to crafters for no reason
- Thread starter WolfyBlah
- Start date
HerrKingsley
Refugee
I can think of numerous ways.
One is utilizing the biomes. Harsh climate naturally keep low leveled players away since they don't have the gear to survive.
Secondly: POI themes
Military camp: "I bet they have armor on, better stay away"
Gyms:"Probably some big guys in there"
Skyscraper: "Wow that one must have a ton of zombies in there"
Big cities: "That must be packed with all kind of nasty things"
And to that you could add sound and ambient light. "Sounds like something terrifying in there... "
I think most people who are having such an issue with the level gates either stopped playing, edited the xmls or think its reasonable to have those items locked away for a bit. I personally land somewhere in the middle of the last 2... its reasonable to have those items locked away a little, just not beyond the hours upon hours of grind the developers seem to think is a good idea.
survival horde crafting game remember this!
You can easily reach lvl 20 and have iron tools in 4-5 hours ingame. I'm not buying tools from traders, i lvl up then craft my own.If im lucky ill loot something and find one, if no, ill use the stone axe untill lvl 20. I wont have a solid base by day 7, not even by day 14, but i will adapt a poi.The game is not limiting you, you are, by seeing only one option, only one way. OFC, balance is not perfect yet, you need to be able to level in more than one way, but is Early experimental release, just have patience. A17 is by far the best release so far!Just accept the changes...the same way you accepted the removal of spam crafting for example...even the fact that you are still here posting, means that you still enjoy the game
HerrKingsley
Refugee
@ WolyBlah Agreed.
Even though I do not support level gates, im all for gates. But i like mine to be dynamic and based on my personal skill not my characters.
Even though I do not support level gates, im all for gates. But i like mine to be dynamic and based on my personal skill not my characters.
Just stop and think for a second, you have it the wrong way around and so does 99% of the player base which is why they are changing XP in the next build because builders like me are taking advantage of this loophole.
The game punishes people who like combat and rewards builders.
You get a low amount of XP for not killing anything which means you can keep your gamescore very low and build at your leisure knowing that the bloodmoon horde will pose very little danger. Iron tools & weapons which are easily looted outside of POI's can be repaired without a perk. Finding a forge (traders or gas station) means you can craft iron spikes, iron bars, truss frames and all other types of iron, again without needing perks.
Conversely the player who likes combat and clearing POI's is "rewarded" with higher XP. That player has a high gamescore, very high level, but he/she has been so busy power levelling they haven't build much to help with the base defence.....and then they come on these forums and cry that it is "impossible" to defend your base or they post their cheese AI exploiting base designs thinking they are awesome because their power levelling has "rewarded" them with a very strong BM horde.
This is my base after 21 day BM (singleplayer, default settings), I am level 11. I didn't even use my guns, just wiped them with my compound bow. Like I said though, they are buffing non combat XP because people just cried like a bunch of sheep without thinking that builders had it good in A17, REAL good. GG.
View attachment 25953
The game punishes people who like combat and rewards builders.
You get a low amount of XP for not killing anything which means you can keep your gamescore very low and build at your leisure knowing that the bloodmoon horde will pose very little danger. Iron tools & weapons which are easily looted outside of POI's can be repaired without a perk. Finding a forge (traders or gas station) means you can craft iron spikes, iron bars, truss frames and all other types of iron, again without needing perks.
Conversely the player who likes combat and clearing POI's is "rewarded" with higher XP. That player has a high gamescore, very high level, but he/she has been so busy power levelling they haven't build much to help with the base defence.....and then they come on these forums and cry that it is "impossible" to defend your base or they post their cheese AI exploiting base designs thinking they are awesome because their power levelling has "rewarded" them with a very strong BM horde.
This is my base after 21 day BM (singleplayer, default settings), I am level 11. I didn't even use my guns, just wiped them with my compound bow. Like I said though, they are buffing non combat XP because people just cried like a bunch of sheep without thinking that builders had it good in A17, REAL good. GG.
View attachment 25953
Last edited by a moderator:
PPanda0421
Refugee
Show us proof that you can reach level 20 in 4-5 hours in game please. Play on SP, use default setting and don't change to longer days or modify the game in any way including changing XML files. Otherwise, I smell BS.survival horde crafting game remember this!You can easily reach lvl 20 and have iron tools in 4-5 hours ingame. I'm not buying tools from traders, i lvl up then craft my own.If im lucky ill loot something and find one, if no, ill use the stone axe untill lvl 20. I wont have a solid base by day 7, not even by day 14, but i will adapt a poi.The game is not limiting you, you are, by seeing only one option, only one way. OFC, balance is not perfect yet, you need to be able to level in more than one way, but is Early experimental release, just have patience. A17 is by far the best release so far!Just accept the changes...the same way you accepted the removal of spam crafting for example...even the fact that you are still here posting, means that you still enjoy the game
No A17 IS NOT by far the best release. You still don't get it. We're FORCED to follow a specific route (eg. kill 100s of zombies to get to level 20/30/40, etc) just so we can do what we want to do. Why should I kill 100+ zombies in order to build a proper base?
"survival horde crafting game" should be labeled "survival horde crafting-after-you've-killed-100s-of-zombies game"
If I want to mainly build but fight zombies as a side thing, allow me to do so. Don't force me to grind those levels (by killing) just to do the things I want to.
You mentioned in an earlier post that someone should disable zombies. Well that proves our point. If someone disables zombies, how are they going to level/gain skills? Anything other than killing zombies at this point in the game nets pitiful experience. The grind will be even MUCH worse than it is now. So the best solution is provide alternatives to gaining exp. If I want to level by mining, LET ME. If I want to level by building, LET ME!
TFP has already mentioned they're going to increase the XP for actions other than zombie-killing. Hopefully they'll reduce or level gates/requirements as well.
PPanda0421
Refugee
Honestly, his base looks like ♥♥♥♥. Anyone can drops 100s of rows of spikes...
PPanda0421
Refugee
What he's doing is cheesing the system so that the gamestay stays low. If he wants get higher level tier material or collect materials more efficiently he'll have to level up. What he is doing is only delaying the inevitable.
Obviously if we wants to continue using basic material he can choose to do so. He can do whatever he want since it's his game/world. But don't say that just because he laid 100s of spikes that A17 is a builder's dream...
That's the cookie cutter bloodmoon base people have been using for years. Sorry thought you had played this game for a bit. I don't base there, I just kill horde there like most other people.
I thought the point of this post was to cry about builders being punished? I just wanted to show you what you can do at level 11 if you had adapted to changes in the game.
I'm not cheesing anything. I like to build so I spend most of my time building and not killing. I have played that way for many alpha builds so now I am cheesing?
I'm going to stop here because I want to get back to building and it is obvious what is happening. Someone has disagreed with you and you don't like it.
Perhaps you too should post less and play a bit more, you might get better at it.
Randomdude
Refugee
You seriously would not call this "cheesing it"?
I mean, I believe it's not your fault, the game makes you play like this because the game stage formula sucks at the moment and feels really unbalanced... but you DO kill less because you understand that the game will be "easier" if you play a certain way. You call it a "loophole" I call it "cheese".
I Do still care a great deal about 7Daystodie, iv watched hundreds of hours of people like Kage848 and Games4kickz play and iv played myself mutliple times across most of the alphas since A9.survival horde crafting game remember this!You can easily reach lvl 20 and have iron tools in 4-5 hours ingame. I'm not buying tools from traders, i lvl up then craft my own.If im lucky ill loot something and find one, if no, ill use the stone axe untill lvl 20. I wont have a solid base by day 7, not even by day 14, but i will adapt a poi.The game is not limiting you, you are, by seeing only one option, only one way. OFC, balance is not perfect yet, you need to be able to level in more than one way, but is Early experimental release, just have patience. A17 is by far the best release so far!Just accept the changes...the same way you accepted the removal of spam crafting for example...even the fact that you are still here posting, means that you still enjoy the game
Development has been a slow and disorganised mess and the systems that have been added have all incrementaly slowed the game down;
Item quality and leveled loot
Player levels and skills
Removal of options like instant loot and craft timers
I dont think TFP truly understand the term 'alpha' as yeah they have been using it to add core systems to the game... but have also not factored in that they are in alpha and shouldnt make gameplay take a unreasonably large time investment, this is supposed to be an experimental branch of the game, people are supposed to have bugs, crashes, find issues, solutions... whats the benift of the game taking so damn long to play? So its 4-5hours to make a forge... 20? 50? To make steel tools...WHY?
As far as this being the best release eva im going to have to disagree and say its the worst, not only has the game been yet again slowed down but for another alpha they did the silly streamer thing that made little sense in the first place
"Its to make the game sell more"
wouldnt it make more sense to have streamers showing off the game and maybe some awesome builds and footage built over the course of experimental before a STABLE release? That way the potential customer is seeing better content that they can actually buy and play...
beyond the fact that it makes little bussiness sense, why the hell give streamers acess to it before those that already bourght 7days to die and showed our support?
Like we could all be working together on making some giant cool as ♥♥♥♥ builds for streamers to show off before a stable release... instead they get to play a testing branch before us... just serves to create a divde between supporters when we are all on the same damn side.
PPanda0421
Refugee
Yes, thank you for pointing out the obvious that someone doesn't agree with me. You're stopping now because you cannot prove what you said 'A17 is a builder's dream' in the current b208 version. If you want tons of concrete/steel and access to some of the same tools you had in A16 you still have to level up quite a long ways. Also, if you want certain perks you need certain levels.
I'd like to see your A16.x builds. Obviously they should have the high level tier materials (reinforced concrete, steel, etc) . Can you build them in A17 current version without leveling to level 20 and in a decent amount of time? If it takes you to day 100+ then forget about it. Time is obviously taken into account here. Some of us want to get to the high-level tier materials in < 365 in-game days...
You can play at your own rate, which IMO is a slower than snail pace (again your choice) but don't think that slow/cheesing the system means it's a builders dream for the rest of us.
So it took you 22 hours to get to that point and you cant even craft iron tools or concrete or anything... how the hell is having no acess to crafting tools and high tier blocks a 'builders paradise'
that base honestly looks ♥♥♥♥ and i dont really see the enjoyment of placing 100s of those spikes. (still stupidly expensive to craft, is that ever getting fixed?) Thats not building... to me, you made a brick cube with spikes around... also aernt iron bars gated by getting the forge perk?...
I really dont get it, to me buildings i made where highly functional but also pretty, id be ashamed to call a brick cube a base, by day7 in a16 i had a lovely cobblestone pole base with a flagstone and wood living area ontop, part of the joy of building your own thing is making it look nice too at least it always has been for me
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets make a test:
Can I build from day 1? Yes
Can I build everything from day 1? No
Can I craft from day 1? Yes
Can I craft everything from day 1? No
Can I shoot from day 1? Yes
Can I shoot with the best weapons (including mods and perks) from day 1? No
Can I scavenge from day 1? Yes
Can I scavenge ultrafast and the best stuff from day 1? No and no(t likely)
This game has a progression and every playstyle has to work up from bottom. So if this is a punishment, everyone is punished. And this will surely not change.
Just give yourself 100k exp points from the creative menue.
Last edited by a moderator: