PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

[ilexev]

C'est malheureusement pourquoi nous avons besoin de voix fortes et d'actions fortes pour choquer les gens et les développeurs et les sortir de… l'inaction. Je ne veux pas entrer dans des considérations trop politiques, mais les voix les plus fortes dictent les choses… ou les plus fous parviennent à imposer le changement. L'inaction et la complaisance sont fatales.

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:17 AM

Ça ne leur donne pas d'autorité. Vous passez à côté de l'essentiel. L'important, c'est que ça soit entendu. C'est vrai, c'est nul, mais c'est vrai. Et c'est aussi vrai qu'au final, JaWoodle, Glock9, Capp, GnS, Eko, ce ne sont que des joueurs. Comme vous et moi. Mais les joueurs ordinaires ne peuvent pas faire de grands changements. On peut se plaindre toute la journée, les développeurs ne nous écoutent pas. Mais si un youtubeur connu peut faire critiquer un jeu (« sauver TF2 »), alors les choses sont faites.

Moi je trouve pas que y'a beaucoup d'inaction ou d'inertie, en regardant la liste des changements de la 2.0 je me dit que les devs font un travail assez important tout de meme, après c'est vrai qu'il faut laisser un peu de place aux vois de la communauté et revenir/reflechir sur les choses les plus pertinentes et intéressante qui ce dise, mais par contre la règle numéros 1 c'est ne jamais écouter les joueurs qui ce plaigne que le jeu est trop difficile sinon le jeu tombe en chute libre rapide et c'est la mort instantanée

 

[EvilPolygons]

That’s unfortunately why we need big voices and big action to shock people and devs out of… inaction. Again I don’t want to get too political but the loudest voices get to dictate things… or the crazy ones get to really enact that change. Inaction and complacency is death

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:17 AM

It doesn’t give them authority. You’re missing the point. The point is that it gets heard. Yeah it sucks but it’s true. And it’s also true that at the end of the day, JaWoodle, Glock9, Capp, GnS, Eko, they’re all just players. Just like you and me. But regular players can’t make big change. We can complain all the livelong day here and the devs won’t listen. But if a bigname youtuber can make people review bomb a game (“save tf2”) then things get done

Yeah, I'm not really a joiner either. I'm not interested in being recruited for whatever crusade you guys are on, lol.

 

[ilexev]

C'est malheureusement pourquoi nous avons besoin de voix fortes et d'actions fortes pour choquer les gens et les développeurs et les sortir de… l'inaction. Je ne veux pas entrer dans des considérations trop politiques, mais les voix les plus fortes dictent les choses… ou les plus fous parviennent à imposer le changement. L'inaction et la complaisance sont fatales.

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:17 AM

Ça ne leur donne pas d'autorité. Vous passez à côté de l'essentiel. L'important, c'est que ça soit entendu. C'est vrai, c'est nul, mais c'est vrai. Et c'est aussi vrai qu'au final, JaWoodle, Glock9, Capp, GnS, Eko, ce ne sont que des joueurs. Comme vous et moi. Mais les joueurs ordinaires ne peuvent pas faire de grands changements. On peut se plaindre toute la journée, les développeurs ne nous écoutent pas. Mais si un youtubeur connu peut faire critiquer un jeu (« sauver TF2 »), alors les choses sont faites.

Je ne suis pas d'accord, les cm sont actif sur les divers plateforme mais la plateforme la plus importante et le forum et la page Steam, c'est un lieu de centralisation principal, avec le nombre de cm et de modérateur, ils ne sont pas aveugle croyez moi, et une vidéo populaire avec beaucoup de vue n'est pas nécessaire pour ce faire entendre, même si écouter des critiques avec un script est toujours intéressant et pertinent, ce n'est pas le plus important, c'est une partie.
Mais une liste de "doléance" peut être faite facilement avec des copier coller et des résumés sommaire et en synthèse, ça aiderai les équipes meme si ce n'est pas vital car ils sont quand même à l'écoute et tout

 

[zztong]

They took away 64 zombie hordes (should have been an option still)

They did? I still see it on the Basic tab, Blood Moon Count: 64 Enemies. Perhaps it is a platform limit? I'm looking on PC.

That’s unfortunately why we need big voices and big action to shock people and devs out of… inaction. Again I don’t want to get too political but the loudest voices get to dictate things

I'm going to quibble a little. I wouldn't characterize the Devs as being "inactive" or accuse them of "inaction." It assumes too much. They develop in private. We do get to talk to them here a bit and they're reasonable people.

Then I'm going to ask, "who are the loudest voices that are dictating things?" Where do they express themselves because I'd like to hang out there. It isn't here. Nobody regularly appearing on this forum gets to dictate things.

 

[meganoth]

Okay yes it’s stupid and icky that they should have so much influence okay like yeah I fully agree. Also people turning to ai for an opinion is now the worst thing I’ve had to think of today. But people need a voice. And they need a loud one otherwise nothing gets done. It’s even more apparent today (don’t want to be getting too political)

I’d reference Mon Mothma’s speech in Andor but I think a more apt analogy is what happened with Gearbox’s dlc update to risk of rain 2. It was dysfunctional and poorly implemented and coincidentally the game became worse as consequence of its console development…

Anyways the game got review bombed and all the big name risk of rain 2 youtubers basically gave a concise and focused voice to the problems with the game. And the devs actually listened. They listened to feedback and balanced accordingly. No more mostly negative reviews. Even on the dlc… though it’s mixed overall because of the initial poor reception.

There was also “Fix” and “Save” tf2 whi h managed to get the remaining tf2 “dev” to tackle the bot crisis. The game was review bombed, even other valve games were getting review bombed, and the big names in the community managed to focus players into action. Can you believe that? Tf2 got “fixed” except bots might be coming back

My point is, yes I wish it didn’t have to be this way. I wish the loudest voice didn’t get the biggest say. But just like tf2 people had been content with complacency and making reddit posts about the bots where they really needed something a lot bigger to change things.

And the game is not… bad. It’s in a bit of a slump in my opinion. It’s my favorite game ever, I’ve been playing since alpha 10 and I feel like I’m watching it become something unsustainable. Like it’s on the downward slope with how these changes are being implemented

There are good examples of public outcry making things better, I agree. Especially in the game scene where voting with your wallet simply doesn't work. But I also have seen many negative examples as well.
And one thing seems to be troubling us the same: That influencers who appeal to viewers emotions and are more sensational (and therefore more entertaining) are more successful than influencers who try to argue with facts. Or simpler said the populists win.

 

[nocTTis]

I know everyone knows the issues in this video but I’ll put it here anyways…

This JW video says pretty much everything most players want to say.
On top of the “DLCs,” they’re already talking about making another game when they can’t even finish the first one.
I honestly hope they listen to the community and make this game better—otherwise, they’d be better off selling it to a more capable team.

 

[meganoth]

This JW video says pretty much everything most players want to say.
On top of the “DLCs,” they’re already talking about making another game when they can’t even finish the first one.
I honestly hope they listen to the community and make this game better—otherwise, they’d be better off selling it to a more capable team.

Fun fact: Most game developers with a crew of more than say 25(?) people are probably working on multiple games at times. Why? Because those 25 people are specialists with their own area and some of them are finished with a game before others. Instead of sitting around idly or getting laid off they work on the next game.

One prominent example is the game designer. When he is done, the programmers are still hard at work implementing stuff and fixing all the bugs.

Also game developers above a certain size often have 2 crews working on different games, makes them less prone to going bankrupt when one game doesn't sell. This also seems to have happened to TFP, they hired a second crew for a game with the unreal engine.



Now @nocTTis , can you tell me what is wrong about that? Should part of the developers just sit around for months or years and do nothing except wait for the next paycheck ?

 

[Arma Rex]

Its even worse, they dont HAVE an opinion of themselves anymore. Completely led by an army of people that get payed for views. Example: look up the complaint of the user that "addresses" an suspected ad ingame. Came directly from his God youtuber. And suddenly its an opinion of his own. Scary shizzle.

Speak for yourself. You endlessly glaze TFP, freak out whenever criticism is levied towards the game, to the point where you sound like an AI chat bot designed to do damage control.

 

[YourMirror]

Speak for yourself. You endlessly glaze TFP, freak out whenever criticism is levied towards the game, to the point where you sound like an AI chat bot designed to do damage control.

You dont get to decide how i speak. You feel too important mate. You re not.

 

[Arma Rex]

You dont get to decide how i speak. You feel too important mate. You re not.

Ah yes, but you decide how others get to speak when they're dissatisfied with certain aspects of the game. Makes total sense!

 

[YourMirror]

Ah yes, but you decide how others get to speak when they're dissatisfied with certain aspects of the game. Makes total sense!

Learn to read. What are you, 11 years old?

 

[Arma Rex]

Learn to read. What are you, 11 years old?

Are you using Google translate? You're making no sense. You're complaining about other's negative opinions of the game, telling others why they're wrong, and then when I pushed back against your tantrum that you've been throwing on the forum, you claim I'm "deciding how you speak"?

I guess I must have a lot of power over you, lol.

 

[nocTTis]

Fun fact: Most game developers with a crew of more than say 25(?) people are probably working on multiple games at times. Why? Because those 25 people are specialists with their own area and some of them are finished with a game before others. Instead of sitting around idly or getting laid off they work on the next game.

One prominent example is the game designer. When he is done, the programmers are still hard at work implementing stuff and fixing all the bugs.

Also game developers above a certain size often have 2 crews working on different games, makes them less prone to going bankrupt when one game doesn't sell. This also seems to have happened to TFP, they hired a second crew for a game with the unreal engine.



Now @nocTTis , can you tell me what is wrong about that? Should part of the developers just sit around for months or years and do nothing except wait for the next paycheck ?

With all due respect, if the first game still isn’t finished and they’re already working on another one, it really sounds like this:
“This one isn’t working—let’s grab money some other way, let’s try another game.”
Why sit idle when the original game isn’t even done? Something’s clearly wrong.
Ten years of development, and they still can’t follow their own roadmap.

 

[ProlificPoultry]

They did? I still see it on the Basic tab, Blood Moon Count: 64 Enemies. Perhaps it is a platform limit? I'm looking on PC.



I'm going to quibble a little. I wouldn't characterize the Devs as being "inactive" or accuse them of "inaction." It assumes too much. They develop in private. We do get to talk to them here a bit and they're reasonable people.

Then I'm going to ask, "who are the loudest voices that are dictating things?" Where do they express themselves because I'd like to hang out there. It isn't here. Nobody regularly appearing on this forum gets to dictate things.

They’re people like JaWoodle. They’re youtubers, people who have lots of pull online, people that can start “save tf2” and “fix tf2”, start waves of review bombs etc. where are they for this game? I guess it’s just the youtube because 7 days to die doesn’t have the massive player base that other games do and we complain here on the forums all the live long day and still nothing… :’) And they don’t get to dictate things but they can be effective in getting people to do something big to get the devs to do… well… anything

Post automatically merged: Today at 12:45 PM

They’re people like JaWoodle. They’re youtubers, people who have lots of pull online, people that can start “save tf2” and “fix tf2”, start waves of review bombs etc. where are they for this game? I guess it’s just the youtube because 7 days to die doesn’t have the massive player base that other games do and we complain here on the forums all the live long day and still nothing… :’) And they don’t get to dictate things but they can be effective in getting people to do something big to get the devs to do… well… anything

Also if you press f1 during the horde night you’ll see a number next to the zombies spawned. This number will not reach 64. This was changed, rather cryptically in 1.2. No more 64 zombie hordes and the fact that they still have that in the options is beyond scummy

 

[ProlificPoultry]

Fun fact: Most game developers with a crew of more than say 25(?) people are probably working on multiple games at times. Why? Because those 25 people are specialists with their own area and some of them are finished with a game before others. Instead of sitting around idly or getting laid off they work on the next game.

One prominent example is the game designer. When he is done, the programmers are still hard at work implementing stuff and fixing all the bugs.

Also game developers above a certain size often have 2 crews working on different games, makes them less prone to going bankrupt when one game doesn't sell. This also seems to have happened to TFP, they hired a second crew for a game with the unreal engine.



Now @nocTTis , can you tell me what is wrong about that? Should part of the developers just sit around for months or years and do nothing except wait for the next paycheck ?

That’s not the issue. The issue is working on a spin off game when the main game is not finished and poorly implementing features looks really bad. It’s like someone asks you to build them a car and then in the middle of building that first car you decide to go start building a new car in anticipation of selling it. You’re seemingly starting something when the first job isn’t finished. Regardless of whether or not you’re dividing your mannpower it still looks like you’re not giving your all to the first initial promise.

 

[LittleNightma]

If we're talking about Blood Moons, a totally different team is responsible for it and TFP are just working alongside them. Their main focus is still on 7 Days to Die. However, if not, ignore me ^^

 

[Arma Rex]

If I'm not wrong, I'm pretty sure the concept of Blood Moons was originally in the Kickstarter video for the base game.

 

[ProlificPoultry]

If we're talking about Blood Moons, a totally different team is responsible for it and TFP are just working alongside them. Their main focus is still on 7 Days to Die. However, if not, ignore me ^^

Well I’m aware of that. That’s why I said seemingly and “regardless…” Because it’s true. It looks bad to be starting something bearing your brand name when the initial project isn’t already finished.

 

[LittleNightma]

Well I’m aware of that. That’s why I said seemingly and “regardless…” Because it’s true. It looks bad to be starting something bearing your brand name when the initial project isn’t already finished.

I guess so, but they are still actively working on 7 Days and responding here on the forums so as long as that doesn't change, I am fine with it personally.

 

[ProlificPoultry]

There are good examples of public outcry making things better, I agree. Especially in the game scene where voting with your wallet simply doesn't work. But I also have seen many negative examples as well.
And one thing seems to be troubling us the same: That influencers who appeal to viewers emotions and are more sensational (and therefore more entertaining) are more successful than influencers who try to argue with facts. Or simpler said the populists win.

I would say JaWoodle is guilty of what you’re saying except he actually has made a well organized video with reasoned logical points and facts. Yeah it’s a bit on the nose with the video title and thumbnail but again… as I keep saying, the loudest voices and all. JaWoodle is pretty divisive because of his personality but he’s a good grasp on most of the negative player sentiment from what I’ve seen.

I’m sick of mediocrity. This is my favorite game, I just want to see it be better and the best it can be. I’ve never loved everything about it and I never will but I don’t think its contentious to say that the way they’ve implemented the crafting, the survival, and the storms is at best mediocre and at worst… s***.

It’s like Daredevil. Seasons 1-3 were so good and everyone was so excited when born again was announced only for it to be so incredibly mediocre. And it was delayed too. People say it’s as good as the original when objectively the pacing, the writing, the attention to detail and character development were subpar.

No one should be content with mediocrity