They are bring a hybrid LBD!

If that's the case, how will you level something like pots or grills up? Will you just gain a lot of experience by just starting a bunch of food and leaving? We don't even get regular experience for that now if we aren't there with the interface open while things are being made (this includes all workstations). And should you get better by just tossing a bunch of stuff in and leaving? That sounds to me like it will be just as bad as spam crafting. At least it's just an alternative, so I can use a mod to increase magazine drops back to where they are now and not deal with it.

Yes, I would guess you will be able to craft better pots by simply cooking stuff. As you need to get ingredients for any cooking and all you get is a speedup of your cooking I don't think we need to fear exploits. Someone wasting hundreds of cooking hours with ingredients he needed to scavenge or farm first won't save any time because he will waste more time for increasing his crafting skill than he later saves with cooking stuff he needs.
 
MM probably already has this fleshed out, but here is a personal thought.

On the other side couldn't just the cooking skill increase as you cook, and have the buffs
or bonuses applied as it progresses. Then also have a proximity, of the campfire for the check.
Like LCB perimeter, or active chunk, or any other distance. Pots could then be reassigned to
crafting and they would only account for the speed of an attempt.

For the cooking having it initially burn food often, rendering the lowest quality of the food,
or un-useable food, and potentially lose resources, until the player gets better at cooking. So even
if it is spam crafted, a ton of resources would need to be gathered to progress. Which invites exploration
trader interactivity and purchase, or investing in a farm, which also invites exploration. At a specific level
certain recipes would no longer yield better quality. Until an entire tier is complete, then higher
tier unlocks could either be un-lockable, or have a low chance of success. Meat has to be hunted. If you want to
potentially throw a monkey wrench, adjust the qty of meat yielded from hunted game, and quantity of meat needed
for higher recipes. Or TFP can call on an old favorite, and separate the types of meat like before. I would
not have an aversion to rabbit on a stick myself. Or a picture of some drumsticks. A ton of recipes could be
added to validate extend and make cooking more detailed or preferential per player.

For drinks, like the simplest clean drinkable water, would have 3 potentials, clean water, returned stagnant
water or lose the water. That could then more detailed drinks, rendering a good drink, a low yield drink,
regular water, or Nada. Progression would render higher success as you progress through the game.
Spam crafting would give both more chances of success and more chances of failure until progression is at
a viable level. Leaving the other mechanics intact should it become overwhelming for a player, either temporarily
or permanently.

If grouped using the same progression already in place like for Tier 1 that you put cooking points into now. Top
recipe is coffee.

Lowering the cookbook spawn and applying just cooking exp points instead, the reading each cookbook
helps accelerate learning, but does not skip progression, individual recipe books can be added.
All they are in reality are icons, So if you find a JavaMammaForDumb■■■■s coffee book it could prematurely allow
you to "attempt" to make coffee. But with a lower chance of not screwing it up depending on how far you have already
progressed in that tier. It would give a purpose for all the coffee I find early on, or I could still wait until I
am at a level of understanding, then take the plunge.

So cookbook itself would be exp toward, progressing through cooking, and each specific recipes for Dumb■■■■s
Like JavaMammaForDumb■■■■s, would be to unlock the potential of success for that recipe, upon success you
get exp toward the whole. If RNG be good that play through, and you get a beef stew, and succeed then you get
a higher percentage of exp toward cooking. But only 1 success per book found. So no spam crafting a higher
tier recipe, to bypass the process. This invites exploration, or trader interaction, and progresses with game play.

The same premise could be used in any of the LBD hybid to make it all feel organic and cohesive through a play through.
The longer the game the more you get or discover. Short play would render the basic necessities, for that time period.
 
No, they haven't lied to me. They presented a road map with some tentative dates. They never told me they would guaranteed hit those dates, and I never thought they would.

Despite all your efforts to making it seem like TFP are somehow to blame here, you just keep on pointing out what a mistake YOU made of believing the dates would be realized. Normal people would not be so emotional over this (it is just a game that is delayed); and among those who for whatever reasons get emotional about such a trivial thing, most wouldn't insist on telling everyone about what a sucker to believe tentative dates could not be missed over and over and over again.
March 21st 2024 was the first time they publicly stated that they would be relaunching to console as a new game. I thought it was 2022, but, I am glad I checked. They got the rights back in 2019...and that's right about when they knew they were going to relaunch as a new game for console.
That meant they had to start changing things up and dumbing things down...and let the PC crowd wonder and ■■■■■ and complain about all the changes that made no sense to them.
"all dates subject to change" you seem to think that is some kind of magic underwear. They could not have met the dates on the road map. PERIOD.
So while you can say YOU NEVER BELIEVED THOSE DATES, it is beyond ■■■■■■■ to suggest that they did not lie to get this back on console or to get console gamers to give them more runway to keep on imagineering the game.

I am tired of people turning a blind eye to everything...like you can't call people out for this ■■■■. Our societies are run by white collar criminals because dip■■■■s say "oh well...it's just how things work".
 
March 21st 2024 was the first time they publicly stated that they would be relaunching to console as a new game. I thought it was 2022, but, I am glad I checked. They got the rights back in 2019...and that's right about when they knew they were going to relaunch as a new game for console.
That meant they had to start changing things up and dumbing things down...and let the PC crowd wonder and ■■■■■ and complain about all the changes that made no sense to them.
"all dates subject to change" you seem to think that is some kind of magic underwear. They could not have met the dates on the road map. PERIOD.
So while you can say YOU NEVER BELIEVED THOSE DATES, it is beyond ■■■■■■■ to suggest that they did not lie to get this back on console or to get console gamers to give them more runway to keep on imagineering the game.

I am tired of people turning a blind eye to everything...like you can't call people out for this ■■■■. Our societies are run by white collar criminals because dip■■■■s say "oh well...it's just how things work".
They did not lie and you still dont have an argument. Seek professional help. There is no argument to win. So you lose by default. 🤷‍♂️
 
March 21st 2024 was the first time they publicly stated that they would be relaunching to console as a new game. I thought it was 2022, but, I am glad I checked. They got the rights back in 2019...and that's right about when they knew they were going to relaunch as a new game for console.
That meant they had to start changing things up and dumbing things down...and let the PC crowd wonder and ■■■■■ and complain about all the changes that made no sense to them.
"all dates subject to change" you seem to think that is some kind of magic underwear. They could not have met the dates on the road map. PERIOD.
So while you can say YOU NEVER BELIEVED THOSE DATES, it is beyond ■■■■■■■ to suggest that they did not lie to get this back on console or to get console gamers to give them more runway to keep on imagineering the game.

I am tired of people turning a blind eye to everything...like you can't call people out for this ■■■■. Our societies are run by white collar criminals because dip■■■■s say "oh well...it's just how things work".

On the bright side, we do appear to be awakening from the dystopian nightmare of inverted totalitarianism, but you are assigning motives to these guys that may not be there. How would you feel if someone were doing that to you? How do you know "they could not have met the dates on the road map"? Did they need the extra revenue to get across the finish line? Who knows but TFP? But console players are finally getting the exact same updates PC players are at no extra charge. So, what's the problem there? The fact that a rough timeline with tentative dates was published -- which was delayed when 2.0 was rushed out a little early and delays happen -- should have tipped anyone off that it hadn't gone gold. But to suggest they synced up console and PC just to fritter away that timeline and go meandering is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

No one's blind to what's happened. I imagine TFP felt rushed; 2.0 went out a little early; it wasn't received well; TFP addressed the community's concerns; and they appear to be back on track. Will they get a chance to explore the hybrid LBD/LBR system knocking around in so many heads, including theirs? Again: who knows? Only they know how much time and budget they have to spare on finishing up this game.
 
Will they get a chance to explore the hybrid LBD/LBR system knocking around in so many heads, including theirs? Again: who knows? Only they know how much time and budget they have to spare on finishing up this game.

All games are being rushed nowadays, and the scope of some projects is too ambitious. Some devs take 8-10 years to polish one product under NDAs. 7DTD was initially less than 25 bucks. Only disgruntled players will find a way to complain after having squeezed over 1k hours.

I view the LBD system as Stats Padding most of the time. There is no system to detect if a player artificially boosts his stats. I won`t change my mind on that. Key bindings, macros, and pixel glitching are more than enough to keep others running in circles... I am not a big fan of that.
 
All games are being rushed nowadays, and the scope of some projects is too ambitious.
From what I gather from veteran devs, scope has always been too amibitious as evidenced by cut features and content in games that were published long before investment firms ever took an interest in pressuring them and trying to squeeze us of every penny in our possesion. Then, of course, someone had to put their foot down, else the team would be stuck in imagineering mode forever. I'm still amazed at what Obsidian managed in only 18 months with New Vegas. Sure, sure. They were largely working with existing assets, but they got it done. It released buggy as hell, but they got it done. And, of course, we thought "buggy, but adorable" back then whereas games are being released literally unfinished these days and that obviously won't be tolerated among the public.

Things have changed drastically between then and now.
 
It’s a compromise. It will diminish the footprint of magazine learning and allow for crafted item stats to go beyond the current stats that only reading magazines allowed.

More importantly, with native LBD code in the game, modders will more easily be able to broaden and apply it the systems you want touched.

The developers are committed to the Fallout style RPG model rather than a Skyrim model for this game. But they have heard the criticism about the learn by reading and are going to allow a learn by doing model to help augment the magazines for crafting progression.
Im fine with the new lbd system. I liked the old one better and I think the old system could work for QOL stuff not full massive buffs but im not a fan of the rpg system. At least in terms of weapons
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Yeah, I know, which included some of the original Interplay devs. Still amazed. (And think they should have gotten that bonus. One point. One point off the Metacritic score. That was cold.)

Way off-topic, though.
Thats the style of rpg I wouldnt mind 7dtd being. Like new vegas
 
Yes, I would guess you will be able to craft better pots by simply cooking stuff. As you need to get ingredients for any cooking and all you get is a speedup of your cooking I don't think we need to fear exploits. Someone wasting hundreds of cooking hours with ingredients he needed to scavenge or farm first won't save any time because he will waste more time for increasing his crafting skill than he later saves with cooking stuff he needs.
And that begs the question... is it even worth spending dev time on it if it has so little value?

Here's the thing... Do you think that the majority of people who have been begging for LBD to return wanted it for crafting? Or for their actions? I am going to bet that most wanted it for actions. If it was also added for crafting, they wouldn't mind (probably). But if it's one or the other, they would absolutely want it for actions and not for crafting. So by saying they are adding LBD back and then saying that it's only for crafting, you're just going to upset the LBD people even more than if they didn't bring back LBD. On the other side of the coin, most people who don't want LBD aren't likely to be happy with any form of LBD being added back to the game. Some will be fine with it if it's not too far off from what they prefer, but many others will not like it at all. So adding LBD back will also upset a lot of those players. Now, of course there are people who don't care either way. But they wouldn't care if LBD wasn't added back either. So the end result of this is that they will upset those who want LBD and those who don't want LBD and almost the only people who don't care wouldn't have cared if it wasn't added back.

So you have to ask whether this is a smart choice by TFP. Regardless what you think of LBD or if you think you can accept how they are going to implement it, do you think that my assessment is incorrect? Do you think people who want LBD are going to be happy with it being only for crafting or that they are likely to be more upset having it only for crafting than if it wasn't brought back at all? Do you think people who don't want it will be happy about it being brought back for crafting? What do you think is the net gain/loss in approval among players with adding LBD to crafting only? Do you think more will approve of the change or disapprove of it compared to if LBD wasn't brought back at all and wasn't ever suggested by TFP that it would be brought back?

Although I don't want LBD and this method they plan to add should be very easy for me to ignore so I'm not too horribly upset about it, I think that if they were going to bring LBD back, they would have been better off adding it to actions so that even if they upset one group of people (those who don't like LBD), they'd at least get approval from the other group of people (those who like LBD). As it is now, they're basically going to upset both sides. You're already seeing people from both sides complaining about it.

As I said a while back, TFP has been making some rather questionable design decisions lately, thinking what they are doing is great only to have a lot of people point out how bad it was, forcing them to have to waste a lot of time fixing it. Did they get a new head game designer? I don't want to say anything bad about someone I don't know, but it has really changed lately and I don't know why that is. It's one thing if they just make a decision that people don't like, but to think it's a great decision that everyone will love and most seem to hate it... that isn't a good path to be on.
 
It’s a compromise. It will diminish the footprint of magazine learning and allow for crafted item stats to go beyond the current stats that only reading magazines allowed.

More importantly, with native LBD code in the game, modders will more easily be able to broaden and apply it the systems you want touched.

The developers are committed to the Fallout style RPG model rather than a Skyrim model for this game. But they have heard the criticism about the learn by reading and are going to allow a learn by doing model to help augment the magazines for crafting progression.
Being quite honest? I was fine with magazines staying in. What interested me the most about LBD is the skill for actions. Crafting is a nice touch but never what fully attracted me to the game.
If the goal is to LBD a character into Perks, then it sounds to me like you want to replace the entire XP/Perk system. Do I understand correctly?

If so, how would you improve your PER, STR, AGL, STA, INT, or are those all removed?

Also, I wonder if there might be perks that don't map to a repetitive action. Towards that end, I wonder if it would in some way satisfy (even partially) you if there were Challenges (Y key) related to repetitive activities? If so, you would earn XP that could be used to buy STR and Miner 69. I'm assuming that is too abstract, but I thought it was worth asking. Would it be different if a Challenge gave you a Perk?

I'm not advocating for/against anything here; just trying to feel out your opinions.
XP could stay the same, but go towards the action you're doing to reward XP. If I'm being really honest what I hate the most is the attributes. Pummel Pete and other skills have been around since A15 and Legacy Console edition. Difference is, they used to be attached to Blunt Weapon skill level vs the Strength Attribute. I want that back. I remember when running more levelled up your Sprint so you had more stamina. Lockpicking skill once again was related to lockpicking.

If I'd accept having just combat skills be LBD and pummel pete, skull crusher, etc. Being dedicated to their weapon skill level. Though generally screw attributes. Locking perks behind attributes has been the single worst decision I feel.
 
I view the LBD system as Stats Padding most of the time. There is no system to detect if a player artificially boosts his stats. I won`t change my mind on that. Key bindings, macros, and pixel glitching are more than enough to keep others running in circles... I am not a big fan of that.
From what I've read I don't think you can. Running is a perk not a LBD skill as are many other things.

I think LBD is fine when balanced properly. For example when it consumes a non-free resource such as shooting zombies, cooking, etc.

It gets silly when you don't need hit markers to level up skills. I remember macros being a thing for Darkfall where you would spam spells into the sky. So I agree there.

I think with proper balancing and diminishing returns one can balance LBD.
 
Don't want sprinting to be LBD. The others are fine. I agree we could use something to artificially slow progress. Currently I can get tiered up with the weapon of my choice pretty fast and it's not uncommon to be rocking steel very early.

I'll have to either watch the video or get more information as I don't see much of anything concrete.
Why? Sprinting is the easiest thing to level up. You sprint to the storage room. You sprint to the quests. To the kitchen. Down the stairs. Up to the horde base.
 
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