They are bring a hybrid LBD!

[meganoth]

why did you bother replying to me? you don't have any answers to those questions...just snarky attempts to be clever.

Because I wanted to correct you on 2 topics you were touching. Is telling you the fact that water is supposed to be limited by jars snarky? Even if you ignore my posts other people here on the forum might want to know.

"we" don't know how they came up with those dates...are you not the same person who tried to tell me you calculated it was just possible for them to meet the road map dates when they made them? yes...yes you are.

Granted that was an argument with low informative value, to show that someone can't simply say the dates are impossible just by looking at them and applying common sense. Nothing more. Someone can have a suspicion because of the large discrepancy, but that's it.

 

[jadMurray]

So upon watching IzPrebuilts video...I'm not excited. Crafting is the ONE thing I didnt think would be LBD. I wanted Sprinting, attacking, combat, medicine, etc. To be LBD. The features theyre adding are nice, but theyre NOT what I wanted. What I wanted was something to slow down the game a bit, make it so if I wanted to dedicate to mining resources, I wouldnt be forced to invest into STR for miner 69er. If anything this has taken the wind entirely out of my sail.

 

[Roland]

So upon watching IzPrebuilts video...I'm not excited. Crafting is the ONE thing I didnt think would be LBD. I wanted Sprinting, attacking, combat, medicine, etc. To be LBD. The features theyre adding are nice, but theyre NOT what I wanted. What I wanted was something to slow down the game a bit, make it so if I wanted to dedicate to mining resources, I wouldnt be forced to invest into STR for miner 69er. If anything this has taken the wind entirely out of my sail.

It’s a compromise. It will diminish the footprint of magazine learning and allow for crafted item stats to go beyond the current stats that only reading magazines allowed.

More importantly, with native LBD code in the game, modders will more easily be able to broaden and apply it the systems you want touched.

The developers are committed to the Fallout style RPG model rather than a Skyrim model for this game. But they have heard the criticism about the learn by reading and are going to allow a learn by doing model to help augment the magazines for crafting progression.

 

[Roland]

How much you gain from reading a magazine: 0 to 100% to +X%.
How much you gain from performing actions: 0 to 100% to +X%.

I personally find this idea a brilliant way to allow players to tailor how impactful LBD is vs LBR in the game as long as it’s able to be done. There are sure to be people who just began playing and love LBR the way it is and would only be angry to see it “diluted” by LBD. But if they could choose LBD 0% and LBR 100% they wouldn’t have to change from what they already like.

I have no idea if this could be possible but I hope something akin to it is.

 

[HammerDano]

I don't think they lied. I think the new deal to make a console port after the nightmare scenario they went through with Telltale forced them to produce a rough estimate/timeline. Was that a precondition set by the console manufacturers? No one knows but TFP. We weren't in on the negotiations. But I've been under the distinct impression they've been under intense, anonymous, impersonal pressure to finish the game, else 2.0 wouldn't have come across as it did. Crunch time. Crunch time never changes.

I think it's horrible console players had to buy the game again in order to get the updated version PC players had enjoyed for years and suspect that's a console manufacturer decision. TFP did try to get at least a discount for console players on the updated version.

25% loyalty reward for "legacy" owners...which is the least discounted price I have seen since launch. How many times has it been offered for 30-35% off? THEY also said "it will be a looooong time before it ever goes on sale again" during the devs streams pre launch.

They did not HAVE to do the console port at all. They don't answer to anyone. They chose to do it...they chose to do it before they finished the PC version. Since Rust gets brought up...Rust's development would have been a better model, plow ahead making the best game you can for PC, and let the porting team figure out what they can optimize to get more content for the consoles, which ends up making both versions better....sell a ■■■■ ton of cosmetics. but they resold it to console with dates they could not ever meet...while taking a great game and limiting it for everyone, to the weakest link.

They said they could do dedicated servers for consoles...then they didn't even apply for them for months...and let people on the forums believe that it was Micro Soft's and/or Sony's Fault, They had been delayed.

they brag about never crunching their staff...I have been ■■■■■ed at several times and accused of trying to make them "crack the whip".



Honestly I wouldn't have minded paying again for a finished game. I just would not have bought it again to wait 4-5 years to get a finished game. I was stretching my patience with a 1 1/2 - 2 year wait for it to be finished.

You are of course free to see it your own way...but, I don't see them as being straight shooters.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Honestly I wouldn't have minded paying again for a finished game

Then why didn't you wait for it to be finished? Whether it's actually finished in 1 and 1/2 years or ten, it was your choice to repurchase it unfinished.

I don't think they're as forthcoming as they might be myself. (See: Rick's misleading claims that it's a RPG.) But I, for one, am sick of hearing, "This is a bunch of shady people doing shady things." Well, people can throw shade all they like. Doesn't mean it'll stick. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone?"

 

[Riamus]

I do this when I need whatever I'm cooking kinda immediately (like water in my current game. After spending 4 real life hours looking for a cooking pot, I finally made a forge and made one, then needed to wait for some water to cook because I was so thirsty.

That is usually what will happen to people right at the beginning of the game, but that's also when you're not going to have the level 1000 grill and pot to increase you speed. It's later in the game where you'd really have a chance of a speed increase from a grill or pot, and that was what I was referring to. Some people will still sit there and wait, but I don't think most do. So if it says something like 10% of the time after leveling it a lot by doing a ton of crafting of grills and pots (I'd assume that's how you improve a grill or pot since cooking with it might improve you but not the grill or pot) and you're just starting it going and leave to do something else (mining, questing, building, etc.), does that 10% savings actually matter?

 

[TWORDY]

I do not want to be off top... but I feel like I should post sth.

LBD

I would not expect a ground-shaking overhaul to the main progression system. I feel overwhelmed and intimidated by the sheer number of books to read xddd. I feel like the weather progression system is slightly overdone.

Players may sprint in a straight line, glitch themselves on one side of the shaped block, plant cacti or simple traps in the cosiness of their safe base. Then artificially boost their stats without taking any meaningful action or risks. Spamcrafting is another thing, and perhaps there needs to be a cooldown or something. Do not be fooled, and do not tell me that LBD is the best thing on Earth. LBD is most of the time - Glitch me up fast, Scotty, and the story ends.

PoI Burnout

Welp. I feel like I hit the ceiling, floor, and wall at the same time.

My biggest problem with repetitiveness in the game is the Points of Interest system. The main loot can always be found in the same location, such as a room, basement, or rooftop. Sometimes I open one wall or land on top to get the main drip.

The zombie spawn system is another story. The same amount of zombified, spawning in the same corners, no wandering zombies, zero surprises after X updates. Pretty much, I enter the same location, and I do know what to expect and how to navigate. I do know where to find the biggest 'area of contempt' with the zombified party, especially after looting the same PoI X times.

I feel burnt already without some dose of randomness with PoIs.

Bandits

I do not expect Bandits to be groundbreaking. Instead of getting shot on the spot, a player could be wounded and dragged to the facility run by local thugs. Then I could plot my way out during interrogation or something, knock someone down, crack some safes, and gear up. Would local thugs like to know the location of your doomsday stash? Minigame would be welcome, not just a death screen with magical spawning back to your own safety.

There must be an abundance of random events in the world. Rescuing trapped bandits for a stash location, maybe some negotiations while figuring out if they would cooperate this time. Falling into a trap and getting ambushed while dealing with zombies is probably a must. Perhaps I could get raided in the late game stages. Possibilities are pretty much endless. Running into bandits with a shootout scenario, naaah, too predictable, incredibly nauseating.

Serious Burnout

I feel like the 2.5 update has been received positively. I think players might want new content badly.

Bandits. New Biome. New means of destruction.

Flipping stats back and forward with refreshed icons will not bring players back, in my humble opinion. Instead of weapon parts, a weapon attachment system should have been introduced a few years back.

Backpack

Would you consider adding physical backpacks to a game and increasing its slot size? Backpacks could also work as a stash. More and more content gets poured into the game, and slots are tiny. I know, vehicle slots were increased in the last update. I think the most popular online servers are those with increased inventory slots and that prohibit the use of mechanical tools (to avoid a lag of cosmic proportions).


On the positive note, the last update brought me some faith. I thought for a while that 7DTD is resting slowly in the abandonment phase.

 

[Riamus]

Players may sprint in a straight line, glitch themselves on one side of the shaped block, plant cacti or simple traps in the cosiness of their safe base. Then artificially boost their stats without taking any meaningful action or risks. Spamcrafting is another thing, and perhaps there needs to be a cooldown or something. Do not be fooled, and do not tell me that LBD is the best thing on Earth. LBD is most of the time - Glitch me up fast, Scotty, and the story ends.

The LBD they are adding will only affect crafting. It actually seems backwards to me, yet at the same time, it means I don't have to deal with the frustrating parts of LBD when used for actions, so for me that is actually a bit of a benefit. For those who love LBD, they'll likely hate that it won't affect actions.

My biggest problem with repetitiveness in the game is the Points of Interest system. The main loot can always be found in the same location, such as a room, basement, or rooftop. Sometimes I open one wall or land on top to get the main drip.

The zombie spawn system is another story. The same amount of zombified, spawning in the same corners, no wandering zombies, zero surprises after X updates. Pretty much, I enter the same location, and I do know what to expect and how to navigate. I do know where to find the biggest 'area of contempt' with the zombified party, especially after looting the same PoI X times.

They continue to add POI to the game and I've seen some POI recently that have had some interesting changes made to them, but they could add 1000 more POI and we'd still quickly memorize them. That's just how our minds work. They can't make randomly generated POIs (at least not that will look good), so there will always be a set number available. The best option if you're on PC is to download POI packs to supplement the vanilla POI and give yourself a lot more variety. It really makes a difference.

As far as zombies go, this is entirely up to the POI designers. And some of the options available are fairly recent, so most POI don't make use of those options, though they may eventually go through and do some updates to them when they have time. The current options allow you to have wandering zombies, but keep in mind that there is still a limit to the maximum number of spawned zombies, so they can only do so much with it. But they can definitely have zombies that are already wandering around (within their volume) before you can see them. And although zombies have set locations to spawn, they can choose to add a lot of locations and let the game randomly spawn a certain number of all of those locations so that it's more random. But there are drawbacks there as well. There aren't always a lot of places to have them appear that will be good options. Having them behind something it good, but having them just standing or sleeping in random places around the floor in the middle of the room isn't so good. It might add variety, but that doesn't necessarily make it better.

But in the end, no matter what they do, including using a lot more parts that can spawn randomly in POI to change things up some, you'll still easily memorize all possible variations without trying to do so and you'll be in the same boat you're in now. Maybe some day they can make a game (or even an update to this one) that will be able to use AI to generate random POI that look good and play well, but that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[meganoth]

That is usually what will happen to people right at the beginning of the game, but that's also when you're not going to have the level 1000 grill and pot to increase you speed. It's later in the game where you'd really have a chance of a speed increase from a grill or pot, and that was what I was referring to. Some people will still sit there and wait, but I don't think most do. So if it says something like 10% of the time after leveling it a lot by doing a ton of crafting of grills and pots (I'd assume that's how you improve a grill or pot since cooking with it might improve you but not the grill or pot) and you're just starting it going and leave to do something else (mining, questing, building, etc.), does that 10% savings actually matter?

I firmly believe that LBD will be of the form "learn crafting by using the item. I.e. by shooting zombies you will get better at crafting that gun. And by cooking you will get better at crafting a cooking pot.

The reason being that this is the only way to avoid spam crafting, useless crafting of items you will never use and also have a granular way to balance it.

 

[IzPrebuilt]

I personally find this idea a brilliant way to allow players to tailor how impactful LBD is vs LBR in the game as long as it’s able to be done. There are sure to be people who just began playing and love LBR the way it is and would only be angry to see it “diluted” by LBD. But if they could choose LBD 0% and LBR 100% they wouldn’t have to change from what they already like.

I have no idea if this could be possible but I hope something akin to it is.

From a modder's perspective I don't see why this wouldn't be possible.

You would just create a universal "LBD XP modifier" variable and a "Magazine Abundance" variable, link up the XP mod like how they do the existing XP slider and link up the magazine abundance the same way they intend to do things like ammo and med abundance. and Voila you have a fully customizable progression system derived from copy pasting existing XML and potentially scripts though I don't actually think you'd even need to get actual programming involved for this. Just some manipulation of data.

Seems easy-ish from my perspective and it would give the most freedom to players to actually just turn off LBR or LBD if they don't like them without having to make a more complex singular slider that converts the whole progression system.

 

[zztong]

So upon watching IzPrebuilts video...I'm not excited. Crafting is the ONE thing I didnt think would be LBD. I wanted Sprinting, attacking, combat, medicine, etc. To be LBD. The features theyre adding are nice, but theyre NOT what I wanted. What I wanted was something to slow down the game a bit, make it so if I wanted to dedicate to mining resources, I wouldnt be forced to invest into STR for miner 69er. If anything this has taken the wind entirely out of my sail.

If the goal is to LBD a character into Perks, then it sounds to me like you want to replace the entire XP/Perk system. Do I understand correctly?

If so, how would you improve your PER, STR, AGL, STA, INT, or are those all removed?

Also, I wonder if there might be perks that don't map to a repetitive action. Towards that end, I wonder if it would in some way satisfy (even partially) you if there were Challenges (Y key) related to repetitive activities? If so, you would earn XP that could be used to buy STR and Miner 69. I'm assuming that is too abstract, but I thought it was worth asking. Would it be different if a Challenge gave you a Perk?

I'm not advocating for/against anything here; just trying to feel out your opinions.

 

[zztong]

My biggest problem with repetitiveness in the game is the Points of Interest system...

This is a collection of issues I think about a lot, and I'd love to talk more about it, but I feel it is off-topic here. If there were another topic on the forums, I'd certainly read it and likely contribute to the discussion.

 

[Riamus]

I firmly believe that LBD will be of the form "learn crafting by using the item. I.e. by shooting zombies you will get better at crafting that gun. And by cooking you will get better at crafting a cooking pot.

The reason being that this is the only way to avoid spam crafting, useless crafting of items you will never use and also have a granular way to balance it.

If that's the case, how will you level something like pots or grills up? Will you just gain a lot of experience by just starting a bunch of food and leaving? We don't even get regular experience for that now if we aren't there with the interface open while things are being made (this includes all workstations). And should you get better by just tossing a bunch of stuff in and leaving? That sounds to me like it will be just as bad as spam crafting. At least it's just an alternative, so I can use a mod to increase magazine drops back to where they are now and not deal with it.

 

[HammerDano]

Then why didn't you wait for it to be finished? Whether it's actually finished in 1 and 1/2 years or ten, it was your choice to repurchase it unfinished.

I don't think they're as forthcoming as they might be myself. (See: Rick's misleading claims that it's a RPG.) But I, for one, am sick of hearing, "This is a bunch of shady people doing shady things." Well, people can throw shade all they like. Doesn't mean it'll stick. "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone?"

I bought back in because of the dates on the road map. They cooked up something believable and I fell for it. Because it SOUNDED like they were done screwing around...that they knew what they had and they were working to smooth out and refine what they had...NOT STILL IMAGINEERING...finish polishing WHAT THEY HAD. How were they EVER going to meet the road map dates (or even attempt to) when everything is still up for rework? and always was in their heads.
the management are shady...the day to day devs working on this are not...they are not the bosses, they rework systems when they are told to...they keep the secrets they have to.
I really don't get how the PC crowd are not the least little bit ■■■■ed off...they lied to you...the ones that have supported them the longest. THEY made the "s" the limiting factor...they dumbed down what they had...took ■■■■ away...just to make the game fit on a xbox S. You guys got screwed out of having a better game.

These guys started out as a PC gaming company...I hope they go back to just being a PC gaming company

 

[Kyoji]

So upon watching IzPrebuilts video...I'm not excited. Crafting is the ONE thing I didnt think would be LBD. I wanted Sprinting, attacking, combat, medicine, etc. To be LBD. The features theyre adding are nice, but theyre NOT what I wanted. What I wanted was something to slow down the game a bit, make it so if I wanted to dedicate to mining resources, I wouldnt be forced to invest into STR for miner 69er. If anything this has taken the wind entirely out of my sail.

Don't want sprinting to be LBD. The others are fine. I agree we could use something to artificially slow progress. Currently I can get tiered up with the weapon of my choice pretty fast and it's not uncommon to be rocking steel very early.

I'll have to either watch the video or get more information as I don't see much of anything concrete.

 

[Soulmonster]

I really don't get how the PC crowd are not the least little bit ■■■■ed off...they lied to you...

No, they haven't lied to me. They presented a road map with some tentative dates. They never told me they would guaranteed hit those dates, and I never thought they would.

Despite all your efforts to making it seem like TFP are somehow to blame here, you just keep on pointing out what a mistake YOU made of believing the dates would be realized. Normal people would not be so emotional over this (it is just a game that is delayed); and among those who for whatever reasons get emotional about such a trivial thing, most wouldn't insist on telling everyone about what a sucker to believe tentative dates could not be missed over and over and over again.

 

[Kyoji]

I really don't get how the PC crowd are not the least little bit ■■■■ed off...they lied to you...the ones that have supported them the longest. THEY made the "s" the limiting factor...they dumbed down what they had...took ■■■■ away...just to make the game fit on a xbox S. You guys got screwed out of having a better game.

Heartbreak is the title of most AAA studios these days. Then continuously working on 7D2D rather than finishing it and moving on is a breathe of fresh air.

I personally dont kind them taking their time because I am enjoying the ride. For now I would just suggest not playing it for a while and come back in a year or two and see if they are any closer to what you are looking for.

Let's be honest with ourselves. We have all wasted money on stupid things and even if you feel that this is one of them it's not at a critical cost where you should be this outraged over it.

For the cost and throughout the years I have got my fair share of the product I purchased. I can understand posting about what you want to see changed or being passionate about something you enjoy.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I bought back in because of the dates on the road map. They cooked up something believable and I fell for it. Because it SOUNDED like they were done screwing around...that they knew what they had and they were working to smooth out and refine what they had...NOT STILL IMAGINEERING...finish polishing WHAT THEY HAD. How were they EVER going to meet the road map dates (or even attempt to) when everything is still up for rework? and always was in their heads.
the management are shady...the day to day devs working on this are not...they are not the bosses, they rework systems when they are told to...they keep the secrets they have to.
I really don't get how the PC crowd are not the least little bit ■■■■ed off...they lied to you...the ones that have supported them the longest. THEY made the "s" the limiting factor...they dumbed down what they had...took ■■■■ away...just to make the game fit on a xbox S. You guys got screwed out of having a better game.

These guys started out as a PC gaming company...I hope they go back to just being a PC gaming company

People get very angry when I say so, but I've been under the impression that TFP have been learning as they go in large part. And I can totally get behind that. I mean, I'm sure Joel can tell us all about how difficult it was to go from modding games to actually producing one, which is a leap of faith most are unwilling to take. So, kudos to them for having the courage, at least. They now have over a decade of experience producing...a game. I once joked with a visual artist that, maybe, he would stop messing around with a single piece of artwork he'd created at some point and move onto something else. He's quite the perfectionist, but perfectionism is a momentum killer. By the same token, I think maybe perfectionism got the better of TFP at some point as well.

Did they make the "s" and consoles in general the limiting factor? Or did the consoles themselves make that the limiting factor due to the lessor processing power and memory compared to PCs? Game studios are always downgrading their games to make them run on consoles because consoles, of course, account for most of the market for video games, though PC has seen a resurgence of late. I don't want to sound like a PC master race idiot, but we PC players dutifully download optimized graphics packages and create and implement mods to bring the game back up to what we think is its fullest potential. (It took 150 mods for me to do that with FO4.) That's an industry thing. Not a studio thing.

Don't think I'm making excuses for them, either. They could be more forthcoming, imo.

 

[Fritzl]

Very glad its just the crafting system getting some LBD. Skillpoints are enough LBD for me and makes it flexible on how to use. I like that a lot.