A New Chapter for The Fun Pimps and 7 Days to Die

Two things....
Bloodmoons has a ladder climbing animation for the zombies. So we know there's no issue with them climbing ladders.

And I am sure that having the players climb up with that silly looking walking (or even worse, running) animation is worse looking than having a ladder climbing animation while allowing the player to freely turn and either break the ladder holding position and go into a shooting stance or block placing stance. Or just let the player turn and shoot / build while maintaining the ladder holding position. That might look silly but it would sure look less silly then them twiddling their feet while they float up the ladder.

Attention to detail might not seem like a priority or a big thing, but when devs do it, it is one of the top things that always gets praise. The level designers for this game are brilliant with attention to detail. You got the incredible ways they make those horror movie POIs work. You got the little remnant POIs and regular POIs that have awesome environmental storytelling.

But then you have player and zombie models levitating up ladders. I don't get it.
 
@Double G
Are you talking about an animation for zombies, players, or both?
This isn't what you are talking about is it?

I saw one in the video I posted near the end for cod with the player and the pistol
that was nice, but the animations here only shoot from right hand.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
I don't know. But even though he is the most present one here, he wasn't in charge.
So it might not have been considered a priority.
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I know that's why he said he didn't want to do ladder animations.
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Double G said:
Two things....
Bloodmoons has a ladder climbing animation for the zombies. So we know there's no issue with them climbing ladders.

And I am sure that having the players climb up with that silly looking walking (or even worse, running) animation is worse looking than having a ladder climbing animation while allowing the player to freely turn and either break the ladder holding position and go into a shooting stance or block placing stance. Or just let the player turn and shoot / build while maintaining the ladder holding position. That might look silly but it would sure look less silly then them twiddling their feet while they float up the ladder.

Attention to detail might not seem like a priority or a big thing, but when devs do it, it is one of the top things that always gets praise. The level designers for this game are brilliant with attention to detail. You got the incredible ways they make those horror movie POIs work. You got the little remnant POIs and regular POIs that have awesome environmental storytelling.

But then you have player and zombie models levitating up ladders. I don't get it.
Click to expand...
Right? It's just lazy.
 
Double G said:
But then you have player and zombie models levitating up ladders. I don't get it.
Click to expand...
There was a long conversation, about that animation, years ago, it got squashed,
so I left it alone, I was hoping someone would eventually mod one.

But if there is a good animation in Bloodmoons, TFP owns the IP maybe it will get
added.
I was glad when the cracks got fixed, they use to look like magic marker
overlays before. The nuance fixes that I liked most were the cracks, the fog when
Faatal first adjusted it, the directional chicken noise version 1, animals reacting to
damage and temporarily running away, actually being able to shoot a zombie through
a hole in the door, The vulture flight pattern when it changed, no longer looking like
you were running on the minibike.

I guess I just learned to overlook it.
 
Old Crow said:
On-topic but different direction - I hope Behavior makes the devs fix the ladder climbing animation.

Yeah I get the idea behind wanting to shoot in any direction on a ladder, but y'know what? having players and zombies just walk/run up ladders looks unprofessional. And you can still shoot from any direction on a ladder with a normal animation.
Click to expand...

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a technical ultimatum presented? Either the character is walking/running up the ladder but it gives them a full range of movement and the ability to place blocks, upgrade, or repair them, shoot down, so forth, or there is a legitimate climbing animation but the player is fixed to it and is restricted from everything else.
 
Dark Sun said:
I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a technical ultimatum presented? Either the character is walking/running up the ladder but it gives them a full range of movement and the ability to place blocks, upgrade, or repair them, shoot down, so forth, or there is a legitimate climbing animation but the player is fixed to it and is restricted from everything else.
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Faatal implied as much, because he said that's what he preferred. There's no reason not to be able to still shoot down or place/repair blocks from a ladder, unless the engine just absolutely doesn't support it. But I don't recall him saying it was anything regarding limitations, just how he wanted it to be.
 
It might also need to come with movement changes; atm you're free to traverse ladders horizontally, but making a dynamic animation for that would be .. rough. For such a small portion of the game, and "perfection" being rather impossible - imagining how you would actually fire a sniper IRL, while climbing up a ladder, while turning 360... I don't mind it getting skipped.

Not really against it either, even a basic climbing animation would be an improvement .. but we'd have our rifles pointing through our bodies while aiming etc etc.
 
theFlu said:
It might also need to come with movement changes; atm you're free to traverse ladders horizontally, but making a dynamic animation for that would be .. rough. For such a small portion of the game, and "perfection" being rather impossible - imagining how you would actually fire a sniper IRL, while climbing up a ladder, while turning 360... I don't mind it getting skipped.

Not really against it either, even a basic climbing animation would be an improvement .. but we'd have our rifles pointing through our bodies while aiming etc etc.
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Yeah, there are a variety of situations where making that animation without restricting movement would be problematic. I also don't care that much if it's not changed, but also don't care if it is changed.

I wonder if they could just make it so legs lifted when climbing so it at least gave a different animation that is closer while climbing, even if it didn't have you grabbing the ladder or necessarily placing feet at the right places on the ladder. It would look at least a little better without really being any more of a challenge than what we have now. It might not make people happy who are asking for an improved animation, but it would still be better.
 
Riamus said:
there are a variety of situations where making that animation without restricting movement would be problematic. I also don't care that much if it's not changed, but also don't care if it is changed.
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It would best for the game, imo, if ladder climbing animations were added. It looks goofy as hell for avatars and NPCs both to float up and down, atm, and what's wrong with restricting movement while on the ladder? If you want to shoot down at zombies or the soon to be released raiders, why not just wait until you get to the roof (or whatever your avatar is climbing up to) or use the lovely environmental aids provided by the developers, e.g. stacked pallets, tires, walls, etc.? Isn't that more "immersive" and challenging? Is impatience the real factor in refusing to implement ladder climbing animations or is it simply the fact that they're so hard to pull off or what?

God help you if your avatar is climbing a ladder while a giant crayfish is spitting at it in Elden Ring, but it didn't stop FromSoftware from implementing ladder climbing animations for the good of the Souls games. It just so happens FromSoftware has much bigger budgets and some of the best talent working in the industry today. So there is that to consider, but excuses will get TFP nowhere.
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
TFP owns the IP
Click to expand...
Not anymore. I'm not sure where people come by the idea that an acquisition leaves the IP itself in the ownership of the acquired company, but it does not. Heck, it's Sony and not even FromSoftware's parent company that owns the Bloodbourne IP. Sell your studio and you sell all its assets, including IPs. Bethesda doesn't own the Elder Scrolls and Fallout IPs anymore. First, ZeniMax and later MS Xbox purchased them. That's why those IPs have gone to pot.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
Is impatience the real factor in refusing to implement ladder climbing animations or is it simply the fact that they're so hard to pull off or what?
Click to expand...
My best guess is, it's a gameplay choice. They want you to be able to fight on ladder. They don't want to implement a whole separate gameplay system for it though, which it would require with animations. If you think for a moment how you'd effectively use a sniper while climbing a ladder IRL .. you wouldn't. Thus making realistic animations for THAT case is impossible. Disable 2 handed weapons while on ladder? Another can of worms. Players can rotate ladders sideways, you'll be hanging off of air anyway; or should we disable that too? A whole another can of worms.

The amount of effort it would take to make player animations for it is completely disproportional to the time we spend climbing. And it'd be only a fraction of the time the changes for anything remotely realistic would require in the game systems.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
Not anymore. I'm not sure where people come by the idea that an acquisition leaves the IP itself in the ownership of the acquired company, but it does not. Heck, it's Sony and not even FromSoftware's parent company that owns the Bloodbourne IP. Sell your studio and you sell all its assets, including IPs. Bethesda doesn't own the Elder Scrolls and Fallout IPs anymore. First, ZeniMax and later MS Xbox purchased them. That's why those IPs have gone to pot.
Click to expand...
Fallout went to pot as soon as it wasn't owned by Black Isle/Interplay.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
Not anymore. I'm not sure where people come by the idea that an acquisition leaves the IP itself in the ownership of the acquired company, but it does not. Heck, it's Sony and not even FromSoftware's parent company that owns the Bloodbourne IP. Sell your studio and you sell all its assets, including IPs. Bethesda doesn't own the Elder Scrolls and Fallout IPs anymore. First, ZeniMax and later MS Xbox purchased them. That's why those IPs have gone to pot
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You are right, I worded it incorrectly. They, being the original owners of the assets, and publishers.
The company formerly known as TFP "Prince reference" May still have access, through BI. Basically
not belittling Bloodmoons, I always in a non-business way looked at it as a mini mod overhaul.

This is a real question. From now on any reference that is made to TFP regarding a change, idea or
thought, should I replace it with BI? What would be the Politically Correct reference now?

That brought up another question, while I was typing. Does BI get accredited in the credits now, and on
the splash screen to solidify the transition?

R'lyehian thought
So when BI decided to buy TFP, TFP said bye to the name on paper, but the people that made/make up TFP
are still involved/active.
So does that mean TFP employees have all been converted to BI, or are they just BI-lateral, or BI-adjacent?
After a buyout, who or whom is responsible for the salaries, and responsible for an open promissory note,
until completed?
 
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4sheetzngeegles said:
From now on any reference that is made to TFP regarding a change, idea or
thought, should I replace it with BI? What would be the Politically Correct reference now?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't think so. And who cares about "political correctness"? According to both company's announcements, TFP still has "creative control" of development...for the moment...so changes are in TFP's court...for the moment.
4sheetzngeegles said:
Does BI get accredited in the credits now, and on
the splash screen to solidify the transition?
Click to expand...
I imagine it will eventually, likely as the publisher unless it also takes over development after the roadmap is completed.

4sheetzngeegles said:
After a buyout, who or whom is responsible for the salaries, and responsible for an open promissory note,
until completed?
Click to expand...
Usually, the subsidiary (TFP in this case) is responsible for paying studio salaries and expenses while the parent company provides the funding via budgets for various games, though the buying company may decide to take that on as well. TFP is a subsidary now. Conceivably, BI could actually shut down TFP if it perceived TFP had outlived its usefulness, i.e. completed the roadmap. It's already done that to Midwinter Entertainment, the studio tasked with doing a spinoff of DBD that was recently cancelled. It could also "layoff" TFP employees as it has many, many others of late. It wants the game; it wants the IP for its "portfolio of horror titles." Whether it will want TFP long term is anyone's guess.

No one knows precisely what was in TFP's specific contract, of course, but BI is essentially doing what Sony and MS are doing, only on a smaller scale: buying up a ton of IPs and studios for their "portfolios" of titles and consolidating them under the Umbrella Corporation's...I mean.... <-- Actually, that's exactly what I mean.

Heh. "Umbrella Corporation." See what I did there? ;) Like it or not, BI bought TFP along with all its assets and is going to have more control over the studio, the IP and its future than most people seem to think, calling it a "partnership" or "merger." Hello? It was a buyout no different than Microsofts' buyout of ZeniMax (along with Bethesda, Arkane, et al. and all their IPs) and Obsidian. Sincerely hope those studios don't come to regret it, but Beth was on its way down and out under ZeniMax's management beforehand, imo. Obsidian may face some surprises down the road. Nothing is certain.
 
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Vaeliorin said:
Fallout went to pot as soon as it wasn't owned by Black Isle/Interplay.
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That's apparently hotly debatable. I think the downward trend for the IP began with FO4, though cracks were showing even during the Black Isle/Interplay days. FO3 had "aggressively mediocre" main & side stories & quests and characters for the most part compared to Interplay/Black Isle's Fallouts and New Vegas, but was fun and interesting regardless. BGS excels (or used to) at creating interesting worlds to explore. (Now, it's over-reliant on procedural generation, imo.)

I don't think BGS was ever all that great at story and characterization though it had its moments. New Vegas is a great example of a fruitful partnership. Obsidian wasn't at all experienced at creating open worlds to explore, but exceled at story and characterization. Each was complementary to the other back then. Were they to put their heads together on a Fallout game -- BGS handling map creation and possibly vignettes; Obsidian handling worldbuilding, story and characterization -- it could well turn out to be among the best RPGs of the entire series, imo. Not at all likely to happen, but there we are.
 
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