PC 7d2d horde "problem"

One word: groupplay.

Me: 1 player 64 zombies (to be fair I didnt know that this also raised the total amount of zombies per hordenight but even if I set it to 8)

Ratio 1/8

You: 2+ players 8 zombies, making you able to defend multiple points, holding zombies back while the other reloads/repairs the door.

I literally couldnt repair the iron door as fast as they destroyed it. WITH A NAILGUN!!!!

 
One word: groupplay.
Me: 1 player 64 zombies (to be fair I didnt know that this also raised the total amount of zombies per hordenight but even if I set it to 8)

Ratio 1/8

You: 2+ players 8 zombies, making you able to defend multiple points, holding zombies back while the other reloads/repairs the door.

I literally couldnt repair the iron door as fast as they destroyed it. WITH A NAILGUN!!!!
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That horde night number setting is per player. So 2 people at 8 = 16. Just so you know how it works before you give feedback.

 
I don’t feel like reading all these messages so I don’t know if anyone already said it but, I’m on second to lowest difficult and on horde night they deal 300 damage to blocks per hit. I only know because I was in a underground building I found and the zombie was stuck behind a 3000 durability cement block and broke it in no time at all.

They deal way too much damage, I die a lot and I have nearly lowest difficultly AND they’re set to never run. However they do run when screamers are around.

So yeah, even IF insane did do more damage per hit on horde nights, doesn’t change the fact that’s lowest settings still do massive amounts of damage.

Maybe setup a platform up high with accessible ladders, shoot them as they come up, setup hay blocks on the bottom outside so you can jump down if needed, have a second platform nearby that you can go back up and repeat. Or there’s always just run and gun

 
Also, if you stand on top of a coffin that’s raised up on the wood (don’t rmemeber what it’s called) the zombies AI goes completely whack, almost like a pileup glitch on black op zombies. I found out on accident playing navesgame on solo when I fell through the floor and landed on top of a coffin, surrounded by like 10 zombies. They literally all just took off and went upstairs.

 
One word: groupplay.
Me: 1 player 64 zombies (to be fair I didnt know that this also raised the total amount of zombies per hordenight but even if I set it to 8)

Ratio 1/8

You: 2+ players 8 zombies, making you able to defend multiple points, holding zombies back while the other reloads/repairs the door.

I literally couldnt repair the iron door as fast as they destroyed it. WITH A NAILGUN!!!!
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We can't repair anything with that solid base design. We just have to let them chew blocks up, because the only way to repair would be to come down off the solid block, which we won't do.

They've broken the shooter platforms a couple times, because they're supported on their own 2 x 2 pillars, but all that does is stop us protecting that side of the wall.

Also, where did I say we were doing 8 zombies? O.o

 
That horde night number setting is per player. So 2 people at 8 = 16. Just so you know how it works before you give feedback.
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the numbers change, but i cannot split up, I cannot reload (fast enough) or repair while someone else shoots.

Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't really change much.

I don’t feel like reading all these messages so I don’t know if anyone already said it but, I’m on second to lowest difficult and on horde night they deal 300 damage to blocks per hit. I only know because I was in a underground building I found and the zombie was stuck behind a 3000 durability cement block and broke it in no time at all.
They deal way too much damage, I die a lot and I have nearly lowest difficultly AND they’re set to never run. However they do run when screamers are around.

So yeah, even IF insane did do more damage per hit on horde nights, doesn’t change the fact that’s lowest settings still do massive amounts of damage.

Maybe setup a platform up high with accessible ladders, shoot them as they come up, setup hay blocks on the bottom outside so you can jump down if needed, have a second platform nearby that you can go back up and repeat. Or there’s always just run and gun
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Agreed 100% thank you for trying to get the discussion back on topic

 
I don’t feel like reading all these messages so I don’t know if anyone already said it but, I’m on second to lowest difficult and on horde night they deal 300 damage to blocks per hit. I only know because I was in a underground building I found and the zombie was stuck behind a 3000 durability cement block and broke it in no time at all.
They deal way too much damage, I die a lot and I have nearly lowest difficultly AND they’re set to never run. However they do run when screamers are around.

So yeah, even IF insane did do more damage per hit on horde nights, doesn’t change the fact that’s lowest settings still do massive amounts of damage.
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The thing is that they get a damage bonus when they're close together. So on horde night, when they come from the same direction and cluster in the same spaces, the damage multiplier gets crazy. It's a factor of a cluster.

Also the only reason they'd run in screamer hordes would be if they're ferals. You can set specific types of zombies to run/jog/walk/sprint now.

 
That's a really cool base man I like it. Looks fun -- I'm going to have to build something similar!
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Thanks! It was a lot of fun building it, we did a server wipe after that horde night because all that was left was to make sure we had bullets lol.

Once the RWG maps get bigger we'll make multiple bases on the maps. I will say that the recent tweaks to resources gathering balancing have made a difference. I have actually noticed some level ups while mining.

 
yeah thats something I hope they nail down, once you get a base setup you're pretty much done. be nice to have exponentially growing hordes getting stronger.

 
yeah thats something I hope they nail down, once you get a base setup you're pretty much done. be nice to have exponentially growing hordes getting stronger.
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Yeah, I guess I could increase the horde sizes. But with a good base, that doesn't really matter. I could have easily modified that base by removing an iron bar above the blade traps and kept repairing throughout the night. Nothing would have gotten in.

Also, my server and I started a new RWG that I'm going to put up on stream. First time I've actually gotten into painting and designing lol. We setup in the penthouse suites in one of the bigger apartment buildings. Starting a new horde base as well. Just did 35 horde night on a bank.... half the building came down lmao

 
Rofl. Buulding in the apartments is always fun. I've said I was gonna do the same a few times, paintig and decorationg. Then I build an ugly yet functional horde base and then thats that lmao. Be nice if they got stronger every week after a certain point, or did things like throw a bunch of zombie bears at you (*cough* behemoth zombie *cough*) Apartments are fun, though for sure; I like to put haybales on the bottom of the middle gap to jump down on for quick exits. They're rather tough too, can lose most of the bottom and those suckers will still stand haha.

 
Rofl. Buulding in the apartments is always fun. I've said I was gonna do the same a few times, paintig and decorationg. Then I build an ugly yet functional horde base and then thats that lmao. Be nice if they got stronger every week after a certain point, or did things like throw a bunch of zombie bears at you (*cough* behemoth zombie *cough*) Apartments are fun, though for sure; I like to put haybales on the bottom of the middle gap to jump down on for quick exits. They're rather tough too, can lose most of the bottom and those suckers will still stand haha.
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I hear what you're saying, but we're talking about different apartment buildings lol. I'm talking about the one with 4 penthouse suites at the top. Also, I have literally never designed or painted in this game. I found it's actually pretty fun when you're sitting around at night just waiting on forges, cement, and crafting lol.

 
Howdy!I am having a difficult time understanding some of these threads. I am a new player with maybe 1/200th of the time in of alot of folks here, bought 7d2d at a16.4, wasn't fond, but returned because I liked the looks of what I saw in the a17 teasers. I also don't find myself having any of the aforementioned "problems" with the "retarded" system.

My first 7d horde night in b221, playing default settings across the board was hectic, but relatively manageable. My base was a wood box, with bottom level upgraded with scrap iron, spikes around and a clear path to the front deck that I built out front. I installed two iron doors, loaded my pink lvl2 shotgun and grabbed my lvl1 fireaxe. I sprinkled 10 barbed wire fences out front and placed down a chair as 22:00 hit. By midnight I was running low on shells, and the first dogs and fat guys started getting up the front steps. I retreated behind the doors, took painkillers, loaded up, swung the doors open before they bashed through and let loose with my shotgun, which gave me time to switch to the fireaxe. Again, hectic, but standard swings, only stopping for bandage or painkillers and the horde stopped coming at 02:00. I was level 12, no deaths and had killed 37 z's.

I understand "Insane" would be quite a bit more challenging, but I also believe that maybe alot of these frustrations are caused by people carrying their strategies and expectations from previous builds into the current experimental. Just a noobs 10cents. :D
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Welcome to the game.

I'm not a new player so it's nice to hear the perspective. My thoughts are the same as yours. I don' t have the critical troubles many people are stating they are having.

I feel like people are saying "Well I did X, Y and Z and I died. Game is broke." When rather they should be saying "Well I did X, Y and Z and died. Ok I have to try something else net time."

 
Well your example was a BREACH. That's a failure to defend. Whoopty-doo they didn't die. Who does during horde night? You just escape up to the roof and shoot down. The fact they can breach several layers so quickly even when people are actively shooting them is a problem.
If you've done everything correctly - made good defenses, have plenty of ammo, hit what you shoot at, actively try to make repairs and kill at the same time - a classic base made out of stone should not be breached so quickly at least so early in the game. I have been breached many times over the years and until A17 - in most cases I was like "yep, i deserved that" - but in A17 its CHEAP. They just chew threw it and there's no real counter to prevent it.

No one who still makes classic bases are just 'sitting behind a stone wall' "waiting" are you serious? Really!? The kind of people who are still trying to play this game as intended are far away from the ones who are just building a base, cowering in a corner hoping it holds without defending. You are so disconnected from reality....

The game currently rewards exploiting the AI with as little resource usage as possible. It is even easier now than ever to exploit the AI - a lot of times it's so bad that it's not even intentional. I just learned on my last playthrough through no fault of my own that if you make a rail system on pillars with a pillbox in the middle to drop down and shoot them face to face in - that they prefer just all bunching up at the pillars themselves and you just shoot them in the back all night long without any effort.

The only way to actually make them challenging is to put no obstacles and make a square so they have a clear path. The most boring thing ever. I want to be down in the trenches with them fighting them off my base not exploiting them. I do not consider block damage boosted as a challenge. I actually look at YOU DEVS as the 'exploiters' if you want to play that game. You just boost their damage to blocks and say - see we make zombies more challenging.

There is NOTHING impressive about an AI that can destroy blocks THAT quickly. It does far more harm to the game than good. Makes all blocks but steel in the game useless.
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There is no way it is easier to exploit the AI now than it was in A16. I'm throwing a flag down on that. in A16 you could sit on a ledge all night and the zombies would just stand below you or you could hide underground. Those are the easiest exploits imaginable (and ones I heartily took advantage off btw.)

 
There is no way it is easier to exploit the AI now than it was in A16. I'm throwing a flag down on that. in A16 you could sit on a ledge all night and the zombies would just stand below you or you could hide underground. Those are the easiest exploits imaginable (and ones I heartily took advantage off btw.)
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I agree, but that's splitting hairs tbh, now you just need to build a stair-case with a gap to platform lol. I haven't done that because it seems boring, but it is still pretty easy.

 
I agree, but that's splitting hairs tbh, now you just need to build a stair-case with a gap to platform lol. I haven't done that because it seems boring, but it is still pretty easy.
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There is always going to be a way to beat an AI. People wanna build a ramp with a gap and hide all night I say let them. You need to exert some self-control and not have a game protect you from cheesing things yourself if you don't like it. I mean "you" in the broad sense, not you personally.

The only way to make any exploits impossible is to make zombies so random in behavior and destructive that there is no way to build anything to keep them out. Then you might as well just fight them in the street and take out building entirely.

I don't see a way to have our cake and eat it too honestly.

 
There is always going to be a way to beat an AI. People wanna build a ramp with a gap and hide all night I say let them. You need to exert some self-control and not have a game protect you from cheesing things yourself if you don't like it. I mean "you" in the broad sense, not you personally.
The only way to make any exploits impossible is to make zombies so random in behavior and destructive that there is no way to build anything to keep them out. Then you might as well just fight them in the street and take out building entirely.

I don't see a way to have our cake and eat it too honestly.
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100% agree, well said.

 
There is always going to be a way to beat an AI. People wanna build a ramp with a gap and hide all night I say let them. You need to exert some self-control and not have a game protect you from cheesing things yourself if you don't like it. I mean "you" in the broad sense, not you personally.
The only way to make any exploits impossible is to make zombies so random in behavior and destructive that there is no way to build anything to keep them out. Then you might as well just fight them in the street and take out building entirely.

I don't see a way to have our cake and eat it too honestly.
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Yeah that's the reality of it.

I think what compounds this is the "Wisdom of the Masses".

Get a jar full of marbles.

Ask 20 people how many.... likely no one will get it right.

Ask 10,000 people and take the average of those guesses and it'll be bang on!

[it's kinda cool if you think about it.]

Well these forums allow us as a group to tackle the AI.

Each and every flaw is going to be exposed and built on by other players.

The day may come when an AI so good kicks the crap out of us but..... not today!

iy3azKH.gif


 
There is no way it is easier to exploit the AI now than it was in A16. I'm throwing a flag down on that. in A16 you could sit on a ledge all night and the zombies would just stand below you or you could hide underground. Those are the easiest exploits imaginable (and ones I heartily took advantage off btw.)
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You're right. I over-exaggerated the problem, and wasn't really clear. What I really mean is it's easier to accidentally exploit the AI. I never intentionally go out of my way to do it. I'm finding more and more things that break the AI without trying to actually do it in A17 than I did in A16. Though I'd admit some of it is just because it's still new so each one I find is fresh and different. But the quantity of them is far and away more than A16.

One most recent example out of probably 3 and half or so dozen just in the couple hours I've stumbled upon is dropping a frame in front of you in a doorway on a POI - if there is an existing clear path without a frame (like if they can go outside through another open door all the way around the house or even huge factory) the zombie will do that instead of coming to you - that wooden frame is just too much work for them :o .... There's lots of little 'accidental' things I have just incurred while playing. It's so much easier to find them and so much more worse than before. I don't want to even notice or know of them but half the things I think to do seems to cause pathing problems. A lot of times I want to do something logical but I now know it will break the AI and be cheap so I don't even do it and risk death and do it the hard way. I have to anti-game the game.

 
You're right. I over-exaggerated the problem, and wasn't really clear. What I really mean is it's easier to accidentally exploit the AI. I never intentionally go out of my way to do it. I'm finding more and more things that break the AI without trying to actually do it in A17 than I did in A16. Though I'd admit some of it is just because it's still new so each one I find is fresh and different. But the quantity of them is far and away more than A16.
One most recent example out of probably 3 and half or so dozen just in the couple hours I've stumbled upon is dropping a frame in front of you in a doorway on a POI - if there is an existing clear path without a frame (like if they can go outside through another open door all the way around the house or even huge factory) the zombie will do that instead of coming to you - that wooden frame is just too much work for them :o .... There's lots of little 'accidental' things I have just incurred while playing. It's so much easier to find them and so much more worse than before. I don't want to even notice or know of them but half the things I think to do seems to cause pathing problems. A lot of times I want to do something logical but I now know it will break the AI and be cheap so I don't even do it and risk death and do it the hard way. I have to anti-game the game.
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I hear you on that. I play all kinds of ways. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood for zombies, sometimes I am and I can agree I've been frustrating when trying to build different bases and the zombies are acting strange.

For me I think it's almost like either make the zombies predictable or not. I really don't care either way. Right now it's a very strange mash up of both.

 
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