PC 7d2d horde "problem"

[Viktoriusiii]

I'm happy for you that you play with friends.

I do not.

Once I need to reload, they got me.

And while yes, I can probably also "funnel" them, this is not what I want in my 7D2D.

I can survive if I want to...

but I WANT to bunker! I WANT to feel like they can break through any second. What I don't want is them getting through my defenses that I spent 7 days building in less than 2 ingame hours.

 

[LuckyStar]

I'm happy for you that you play with friends.I do not.

Once I need to reload, they got me.

And while yes, I can probably also "funnel" them, this is not what I want in my 7D2D.

I can survive if I want to...

but I WANT to bunker! I WANT to feel like they can break through any second. What I don't want is them getting through my defenses that I spent 7 days building in less than 2 ingame hours.

Hearing a lot of "I WANT" going on there.....

....hmmm maybe you could also "WANT" to make an adjustment in the main menu?

Perhaps something to do with how much damage a block can take?

That's there somewhere right?

I could be wrong..... but I don't think I am.

 

[Jugginator]

Very funny.
Sitting behind a stone wall and waiting for horde night to be over won't do the trick. I know that it was a perfectly viable tactic in A16 and apparently that was not considered "boring" or "an exploit".

I have watched "classic" bases being defended. Walls, spikes, the works. No pathing tricks at all.

So that works but it is not what you consider "the cool way"?

IMO a base does not have to be completely immune to damage so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This! Just because sitting behind a concrete wall with no traps just waiting for horde night to end like in 16 doesn't work doesnt mean zombies need to be nerfed... the game isn't "build a wall and sit behind it every 7 days afk". Classic bases CAN be defended.

https://ibb.co/KrskKZ0

https://ibb.co/yWFLJz4

https://ibb.co/6bnSZkJ

https://ibb.co/rx4VgZ1

Cobblestone wall never got touched. I used most of the ammo I found, but I scavenged for more after. Have enough to hopefully last next one; I will be adding a secondary wood or cobblestone wall around it if I have the resources, or just add more spikes. Yes, if I were to just stand there doing nothing combat wise, it would have fallen. But that's why there's combat... you can't sweet talk the zombies... But, I guess that means I am a "fanboi" for enjoying zombies being able to break through my ♥♥♥♥ if I don't defend it.

 

[PoppaTot]

This! Just because sitting behind a concrete wall with no traps just waiting for horde night to end like in 16 doesn't work doesnt mean zombies need to be nerfed... the game isn't "build a wall and sit behind it every 7 days afk". Classic bases CAN be defended. https://ibb.co/KrskKZ0

https://ibb.co/yWFLJz4

https://ibb.co/6bnSZkJ

https://ibb.co/rx4VgZ1

Cobblestone wall never got touched. I used most of the ammo I found, but I scavenged for more after. Have enough to hopefully last next one; I will be adding a secondary wood or cobblestone wall around it if I have the resources, or just add more spikes. Yes, if I were to just stand there doing nothing combat wise, it would have fallen. But that's why there's combat... you can't sweet talk the zombies... But, I guess that means I am a "fanboi" for enjoying zombies being able to break through my ♥♥♥♥ if I don't defend it.

Just curious, what settings? SP or MP? BM count?

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Hearing a lot of "I WANT" going on there.....

....hmmm maybe you could also "WANT" to make an adjustment in the main menu?

Perhaps something to do with how much damage a block can take?

That's there somewhere right?

I could be wrong..... but I don't think I am.

You are though

I'm advocating for EVERY playstyle to have it's validity (nonexploit obviously)

So if you want to be a tank and run around murdering zombies, that should be possible.

If you want to shoot zombies from above while they try and destroy the foundations, that should be possible.

And trying to build up loads of defenses and trying to bunker in yourself and only shoot those that make it should ALSO be a viable way to play.

Obviously "I want" that to happen. But not because I want them to cater to my specific playstyle, but because if there are only very limited "viable" strategies, it becomes boring real quick!

And "changing options" is not changing this issue for anyone else, nor does it change the core problem that singleplayer, basebuilders face.

Should EVERY basebuilder without friends change either options or play with friends?

"Hearing a lot of "I don't play your way so I don't care" going on there....."

I'm saying "look I'm very VERY seasoned in this game and I never really died before A17 and if I can't make it work, I am pretty sure that it is too hard for the casual player to make it work, no matter the settings".

 

[Jugginator]

Just curious, what settings? SP or MP? BM count?

Warrior difficulty, SP, And I think 12, whatever two changes up from default is lol I can't think of the exact number. Honestly the only reason I lost so many spikes on 2 sides was because a couple of cops showed up and exploding while I was fighting a cpl rads (and a damn spider that jumped onto my railings haha). Boom Headshot really is a grand perk, shooting down from above almost guarantees headshot kills quickly.ANd Victor, look at my screenshots lol. It's very possible to defend a base and "make it work". Only a handful of iron spikes and a bunch of wood ones.

 

[PoppaTot]

Warrior difficulty, SP, And I think 12, whatever two changes up from default is lol I can't think of the exact number. Honestly the only reason I lost so many spikes on 2 sides was because a couple of cops showed up and exploding while I was fighting a cpl rads (and a damn spider that jumped onto my railings haha). Boom Headshot really is a grand perk, shooting down from above almost guarantees headshot kills quickly.ANd Victor, look at my screenshots lol. It's very possible to defend a base and "make it work". Only a handful of iron spikes and a bunch of wood ones.

Right on, that's good work with those settings for sure.

 

[Jugginator]

Right on, that's good work with those settings for sure.

Thanks! I mean granted those iron spikes did most of the work... they killed the cops lol. I will admit I've been an on and off counter-striker since.. half life 1... (im not old); so fps combat is in my reflexes, but really the spike layouts really did most of it. Stuff was dying before I had a chance to kill most of them. And if you look close, I had a fail-safe layer of spikes around my wood/iron core set up in the same fashion, if thye broke down the cobblestone, they were hit straight away by more spikes, and the 1-gap distance would allow me to stand on the bars on the cobblestone wall to get a better angle to fight back. I made a somewhat similar design in a MP server with a friend on jacked up difficulty, made a triple-wal 1-gap deep box around a 2-story core. Tunnel entrance and exit with no doors. Held up decently, too. Though they did break through 2 layers of walls at day 49 horde. Just too many rad cops and wights, but the base never was fully breached.

 

[PoppaTot]

Thanks! I mean granted those iron spikes did most of the work... they killed the cops lol. I will admit I've been an on and off counter-striker since.. half life 1... (im not old); so fps combat is in my reflexes, but really the spike layouts really did most of it. Stuff was dying before I had a chance to kill most of them. And if you look close, I had a fail-safe layer of spikes around my wood/iron core set up in the same fashion, if thye broke down the cobblestone, they were hit straight away by more spikes, and the 1-gap distance would allow me to stand on the bars on the cobblestone wall to get a better angle to fight back. I made a somewhat similar design in a MP server with a friend on jacked up difficulty, made a triple-wal 1-gap deep box around a 2-story core. Tunnel entrance and exit with no doors. Held up decently, too. Though they did break through 2 layers of walls at day 49 horde. Just too many rad cops and wights, but the base never was fully breached.

I can post a twitch clip of a semi funnel type kill zone that I made in Navezgane you might be interested. It is definitely and end game base and not early stage. I built it for everyone on my dedicated server. I say "funnel type" because it definitely was to draw them in, but it we also had retreat areas if needed.

it's hard to explain, but It was pretty much a 12x12 box in the middle, had a 3 wide lane that extend 15 blocks out on each side, the middle had a second story, the lanes roofs were iron bars (I miss jail doors), then I made another square wall about 6 blocks out from the inner square, and another squared fence at the 15 block distance. put 1 row of spikes around the out wall to path them to the tunnels. Each tunnel had 5 blade traps and a turret fire down the lane, and a spot light to light up each lane. Was just too OP for this AI in my opinion.

EDIT: forgot to mention that I had electric fences zig zagged down each lane as well lol

 

[Nighty]

Hearing a lot of "I WANT" going on there.....

....hmmm maybe you could also "WANT" to make an adjustment in the main menu?

Perhaps something to do with how much damage a block can take?

That's there somewhere right?

I could be wrong..... but I don't think I am.

There is but it also makes breaking into safesa nightmare, breaking into pois a nightmare, gathering resources for those 2x stronger blocks... also takes 2x longer, if the settings for block resistance was separate from generated and playermade then sure, but untill then that setting might aswell not exist.

 

[Nighty]

This! Just because sitting behind a concrete wall with no traps just waiting for horde night to end like in 16 doesn't work doesnt mean zombies need to be nerfed... the game isn't "build a wall and sit behind it every 7 days afk". Classic bases CAN be defended. https://ibb.co/KrskKZ0

https://ibb.co/yWFLJz4

https://ibb.co/6bnSZkJ

https://ibb.co/rx4VgZ1

Cobblestone wall never got touched. I used most of the ammo I found, but I scavenged for more after. Have enough to hopefully last next one; I will be adding a secondary wood or cobblestone wall around it if I have the resources, or just add more spikes. Yes, if I were to just stand there doing nothing combat wise, it would have fallen. But that's why there's combat... you can't sweet talk the zombies... But, I guess that means I am a "fanboi" for enjoying zombies being able to break through my ♥♥♥♥ if I don't defend it.

And so the players that choose to go on higher difficulties either have to run arround or build cheese mazes and whatever to exploit AI?, bcs clearly there is no castle making and resisting the horde on higher difficulties where player have much less dmg and zombies much more hp/dmg. Untill got steel and concrete, couldn't survive the night, that's not about not being able to survive the night bcs can aswell just run arround, grab ak or shotty and as long as will not wear heavy armor will be able to outrun them but the player that like base building can't do what they like now, in A15/A16, could make a base made of 3 layers of 3 lines of log spikes and barbed wire in front of each layer, then in center have a bunker of reinforced concrete and iron bars that was only connected with outside world by underground tunnel. It worked bcs they attacked from all sides, nowthey beeline to either weakest spot or to a single spot where some zombies already started chewing on so basicaly they avoid like 90% of traps and walls to get thro that 10% traps and 2 walls, how encouraging to build anything, not to mention that even when building tower with ramp so they can't just choose where to strike they still together chew thro those maxed doors like butter untill will get steel where they are atleast capable of anything. That's saying about the hgihest difficulties, not some nomad or whatever arround where zombies die from 1-2 smacks with a wooden club. (would play nomad to make horde nights more enjoyable, but then daily exploration would be a joke bcs a zombie bear will deal 1 dmg thro that heavy armor or something and die from just looking at it)

 

[Jugginator]

I can post a twitch clip of a semi funnel type kill zone that I made in Navezgane you might be interested. It is definitely and end game base and not early stage. I built it for everyone on my dedicated server. I say "funnel type" because it definitely was to draw them in, but it we also had retreat areas if needed.
it's hard to explain, but It was pretty much a 12x12 box in the middle, had a 3 wide lane that extend 15 blocks out on each side, the middle had a second story, the lanes roofs were iron bars (I miss jail doors), then I made another square wall about 6 blocks out from the inner square, and another squared fence at the 15 block distance. put 1 row of spikes around the out wall to path them to the tunnels. Each tunnel had 5 blade traps and a turret fire down the lane, and a spot light to light up each lane. Was just too OP for this AI in my opinion.

EDIT: forgot to mention that I had electric fences zig zagged down each lane as well lol

Oh nice, that does sound fun -- I'd definitely enjoy seeing that if you wanted to post. I wouldn't go so heavy on the traps to make things more interesting, but building with blocks gets to me sometimes, I am not used to it... so more creative builds I havent gotten used to. I really need to go into a creative game and practice or watch some streams such as yours lol. I'll keep an eye out or just go to your Twitch page.

And Nighty.. I built and defended that base on Warrior difficulty with jacked up spawning, and the only guns I used on my hotbar were my pistol and the magnum on a spider that jumped onto my bars.

I built a similar design, just a bit bigger with more spikes and 3 layers of walls on Survivalist (1 step below insane) with even MORE jacked up spawn on bloodmoon and the last horde night survived at day 49. So, I don't know what you're rambling about. The other design was a mix of concrete, cobblestone and iron blocks. By far not a bunker. Survived every blood moon. I put one concrete wall around a crushed-car encampment and survived 8 blood moons in it.

Either you're standing there watching the zombies beat your bases up and not combating them, or relying on walls alone. Both worked on insane difficulty with 64 zombie spawns (including a modded XML guppy made giving constant spawning), but that won't work in 17. Adapt - improvise - overcome. Not "Well guess ill do what I did before and die now."

And the AI goes for the weakest point? Okay so dont make a weak point. Look at my screenshots, clearly it's a cobble stone wall with spikes around it. All 4 sides were hit. 4 screens, 4 sides of the base. They revert for going to you if theres no weak spots. And if they do go for weak spots, you can't think "hey they're going for weak spots, and I have put weak spots in, I should either not have weak spots or know to combat them there"

 

[Viktoriusiii]

And so the players that choose to go on higher difficulties either have to run arround or build cheese mazes and whatever to exploit AI?, bcs clearly there is no castle making and resisting the horde on higher difficulties where player have much less dmg and zombies much more hp/dmg. Untill got steel and concrete, couldn't survive the night, that's not about not being able to survive the night bcs can aswell just run arround, grab ak or shotty and as long as will not wear heavy armor will be able to outrun them but the player that like base building can't do what they like now, in A15/A16, could make a base made of 3 layers of 3 lines of log spikes and barbed wire in front of each layer, then in center have a bunker of reinforced concrete and iron bars that was only connected with outside world by underground tunnel. It worked bcs they attacked from all sides, nowthey beeline to either weakest spot or to a single spot where some zombies already started chewing on so basicaly they avoid like 90% of traps and walls to get thro that 10% traps and 2 walls, how encouraging to build anything, not to mention that even when building tower with ramp so they can't just choose where to strike they still together chew thro those maxed doors like butter untill will get steel where they are atleast capable of anything. That's saying about the hgihest difficulties, not some nomad or whatever arround where zombies die from 1-2 smacks with a wooden club. (would play nomad to make horde nights more enjoyable, but then daily exploration would be a joke bcs a zombie bear will deal 1 dmg thro that heavy armor or something and die from just looking at it)

They should make zombie pathing 90% random/false (so they don't pick a weakspot and hit something that would need up to 40k hp more, if its only like 2-4 blocks (so that they won't start digging up dirt to try and tunnel under you)) and only 10% gps tracking to the weakspots.

Maybe even only 5%.

And once the playerfeedback is there you can buff that % chance.

 

[PoppaTot]

Oh nice, that does sound fun -- I'd definitely enjoy seeing that if you wanted to post. I wouldn't go so heavy on the traps to make things more interesting, but building with blocks gets to me sometimes, I am not used to it... so more creative builds I havent gotten used to. I really need to go into a creative game and practice or watch some streams such as yours lol. I'll keep an eye out or just go to your Twitch page.
And Nighty.. I built and defended that base on Warrior difficulty with jacked up spawning, and the only guns I used on my hotbar were my pistol and the magnum on a spider that jumped onto my bars.

I built a similar design, just a bit bigger with more spikes and 3 layers of walls on Survivalist (1 step below insane) with even MORE jacked up spawn on bloodmoon and the last horde night survived at day 49. So, I don't know what you're rambling about. The other design was a mix of concrete, cobblestone and iron blocks. By far not a bunker. Survived every blood moon. I put one concrete wall around a crushed-car encampment and survived 8 blood moons in it.

Either you're standing there watching the zombies beat your bases up and not combating them, or relying on walls alone. Both worked on insane difficulty with 64 zombie spawns (including a modded XML guppy made giving constant spawning), but that won't work in 17. Adapt - improvise - overcome. Not "Well guess ill do what I did before and die now."

And the AI goes for the weakest point? Okay so dont make a weak point. Look at my screenshots, clearly it's a cobble stone wall with spikes around it. All 4 sides were hit. 4 screens, 4 sides of the base. They revert for going to you if theres no weak spots. And if they do go for weak spots, you can't think "hey they're going for weak spots, and I have put weak spots in, I should either not have weak spots or know to combat them there"

I went heavy on the traps because I was end-game, level 100+. Was just time to sit back and watch the slaughter lmao. We were still shooting down the lanes too though.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/349162905

^^^that is just the full horde night clip for Day 56, you'll definitely get the whole base layout by just perusing lol

 

[Noompsie]

Damage to blocks is too high in a17. Gonna say this before the usual argument: Not because of the difficulty. Theres many ways to survive, like just running, building a maze, or the easiest, a small easy structure that makes them loop indefinately. The damage to blocks is too high bc it discourages building a sturdy base, and encourages exploiting the AI.

Agree 100%

 

[Jugginator]

Nice lmao thanks for posting it! I'll sit down and watch it when I get home.

 

[Jugginator]

I went heavy on the traps because I was end-game, level 100+. Was just time to sit back and watch the slaughter lmao. We were still shooting down the lanes too though.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/349162905

^^^that is just the full horde night clip for Day 56, you'll definitely get the whole base layout by just perusing lol

That's a really cool base man I like it. Looks fun -- I'm going to have to build something similar!

 

[Ornias]

I have not seen a wandering horde in my current play through. Did they remove them? Only day 4, but level 29.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I have not seen a wandering horde in my current play through. Did they remove them? Only day 4, but level 29.

theyll come on day 5 and 8 early in the mornings (at least did for me in my last 3 playthroughs may be different for you) but they are still Conga lines so get your molotov out and farm them xp

 

[Feycat]

Just no. So much no. If I spend my whole 7 days building up a base with "logical" defenses (meaning upgrading blocks and putting spikes around, while beeing able to shoot outside) THAT SHOULD NOT BE OVERRUN WITHIN 1 INGAME HOUR!This has nothing to do with boring.

Here I make a step to agree with you:

Digging a mote, filling it with spikes and expecting the night to be solved is boring. Not having ANY interaction with zombies because they all die on spikes is boring.

BUT the game should follow basic gamedesign:

Risk-Input-Reward/Punishment

If I put ALL of my 7 days into building a base that may withstand the hordenight, instead of going looting and so on (lets say you have a good pick and shovel from who knows where), you have put 7 days worth of Input into the base. IF the base breaches within the first hour, THAT IS NOT THE ADEQUAT REWARD.

Yes waiting for zombies to die on your defenses is low risk. (but also high risk if they breach it, because then you are trapped)

Basically, traditional basebuilding is dead. You always need to close off the door with cement (or more) and they will still break through in about 2-3 hours.

It is just so infuriating that you think that because I do not want to abuse the A.I. that I'm just too bad for this game.

You wanna know how often I have died (insane, always jog) while not on hordenight?

ONCE. Because I took a quest in 208 that had a feral at the end and I only had a bow.

I refined my basedesign THREE TIMES always improving it and blaming myself for the failure. But in the end, its still never enough to even get further than midnight (if even that).

And for you to have the balls to claim that I am "just too bad"... I don't know if I should laugh or cry because someone like you is actually moderating the forums.

Except like, what are you talking about?

My group is still building "traditional" bases.

We had to retire our pillar 50 fight cage base because they will break through it way too quickly.

But I still build a basic, solid square base. If I can take over a ranger station, I prefer that, because I don't have to build the basic structure. But I've also just hand-built a normal basic base. 13 x 13 base with the whole bottom filled in except for one block hole down the dead center for mining/escape tunnel. Base built in floors on top of that, including a farm level. A 2-block high wall around the outside, broken only by occasional 2 x 6 1-deep pits, filled with spikes and a row of barbed wire fences to slow the zombies in the pit for molotovs. Shooter platforms on stilts that let us shoot outside the wall.

Literally that's it. And even on cobblestone, we have not had a full breech. We had them dig 4 layers in on one side on the first horde night. On the first horde night, actually all we had was the solid 13 x 13 base and the shooter platforms.

You make a big solid block on the bottom, put the stuff you care about on top, and they're going to have a damn hard time collapsing it beneath you, and since you're not behind that base, they're not going to get to you. You stand on top and shoot at them.

Molotvs are key to this base. You huck molotovs any time they cluster up and into those spike pits when they run into them.

Normal base. No pathing advantages. No looping. No weird pathing tables.

/shrug