Double G
Survivor
That's what I've done most of the time. I cubed myself in and waited. Only in 2.1 have I been close enough to a building to use that instead of building shelter.
PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary
- Thread starter Crater Creator
- Start date
Double G
Survivor
Why be afraid of complaints now?
And what's the loss if some people would still wait it out while doing nothing? At least those that might enjoy the challenge of being in a storm that restricts you but doesn't kill you would have an option.
Debuff stamina. Debuff health regen. Hell, turn on feral sense.
And it's not about stifling progression rate. I'm on day 20 something and I'm still using a stone axe. I don't care that much about progression.
Jost Amman
Hunter
There's a lot of complaining I see about Storms bogging down gameplay or being "not playable".
I don't get it.
I know 7D2D is not just a survival game but a mix of different genres, however, I think overcoming challenges, obstacles and difficulties is, from my point of view, absolutely acceptable as a survival game mechanic.
I can't understand players complaining about storms, because how much different it is from complaining about other survival mechanics?
A few examples:
I'm all for improving storm survival if there are good ideas (e.g.: additional protection gear and such...) but it's baffling that every single new game mechanic TFP introduces is seen as an obstacle to whatever the players think it's the "their real (main) gameplay".
As for storms, one thing I was planning is to build small "outposts" (of sorts) all over the place, maybe 100-200 blocks away from each other, and call them "storm shelters". If a storm hits, I'd like to be able to reach the nearest one and do some crafting, digging, or do some shooting when zombies try to breach in.
I don't get it.
I know 7D2D is not just a survival game but a mix of different genres, however, I think overcoming challenges, obstacles and difficulties is, from my point of view, absolutely acceptable as a survival game mechanic.
I can't understand players complaining about storms, because how much different it is from complaining about other survival mechanics?
A few examples:
- I hate searching for water because it takes time from what I like to do
- I hate searching for food because... (see above)
- I hate critical injuries because... (see above)
- I hate storms because... (yeah, you guessed it, see above!)
I'm all for improving storm survival if there are good ideas (e.g.: additional protection gear and such...) but it's baffling that every single new game mechanic TFP introduces is seen as an obstacle to whatever the players think it's the "their real (main) gameplay".
As for storms, one thing I was planning is to build small "outposts" (of sorts) all over the place, maybe 100-200 blocks away from each other, and call them "storm shelters". If a storm hits, I'd like to be able to reach the nearest one and do some crafting, digging, or do some shooting when zombies try to breach in.
Double G
Survivor
There is a difference action and inaction. There is action involved in your 1st three examples. Storms result in inaction. You have to go and do something to get water, food or a broken leg. Action is fun. Inaction isn't.
And I live life. I don't want to come home and play life.
Riamus
Hunter
Sure... if you could overcome storms. Other than hiding out somewhere, you can't ever overcome them so that you can go out in them and stay out in them... at least not without using a lot of healing. Your idea of building a bunch of "storm shelters" is technically overcoming the storm, but who wants to build hundreds of those? Even just filling a 1km square area with shelters every 100m would take around 100 shelters. The exact number depends on the size of the shelters... if you built a small 3x3 shelter that you could just barely fit into, it would be 100 to cover a 1km square area with 100m spacing between each. Less if you make it bigger, but still a lot. So even though it's technically overcoming storms, it's not really a great option for the majority of people. If we want to talk about overcoming storms, there needs to be something that at least a decent percentage of people would actually consider doing.
And as Double G said, it's a matter of doing something or not doing something. There's a difference. If I'm stuck waiting without anything to do, it's not enjoyable. If I can do something, it's not so bad, even if it might not be something I want to do. As I mentioned earlier, my last storm started in the middle of clearing a POI. I finished before the storm and had nothing to do but wait. I was full and my motorcycle was full, so there wasn't even the option to just start scrapping everything in the POI (something I don't do anyhow). And the time before kept me from being able to work on completing a badge because as soon as I went there, it was a storm and I was stuck waiting until it ended. Sure, for that one, I sat there mining until it ended, but it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. I had gone over to that biome specifically to complete the badge. Having to do something else wasn't a good thing from my perspective. Not only that, but I had to keep going into the biome to check to see if the storm was finally finished since there's no way to know if it's storming in the adjacent biome other than to go into it. So it was even more of a waste of time.
This is by the way a point that the developers need to work on. But I haven't played 2.1 yet, so it's hard to say how relevant this remains with the current storm duration.
Jost Amman
Hunter
Yeah, but you're completely ignoring the fact that you CAN do something while you wait the storm out. Both you and Riamus keep saying that the only option is to wait it out, but I and others have already provided you with some alternative options. The fact that you keep ignoring those options proves my point: "every single new game mechanic TFP introduces is seen as an obstacle to whatever the players think it's the their real (main) gameplay" (in this case you won't accept just staying inside and crafting, digging or defending your shelter while you wait).
Sounds like the real reason you don't like storms is that you can't overcome them completely.
I never said that survival is about overcoming a critical injury or a storm, I said that survival is about overcoming the difficulties and challenges that those issues present to you. There's a difference.
You can't really overcome a critical injury, you can just reduce the time you need to wait before you heal.
You can't really overcome hunger and thirst, you can just extend the time before you need to face them again.
You can't really overcome storms, you can just set yourself up so that you won't need to go AFK while waiting the storm to pass.
But, as I said before, I agree that storms as they are now, can and should be improved (from a gameplay perspective).
What I disagree on is making them something that can be "skipped" in any way.
Many? Why don't they understand it? It's absolutely logical. As Sherlock Holmes said: "It's elementary, Watson." In terms of knowledge of anatomy, a doctor is no different from a killer. They both use the same knowledge, only with opposite goals.
I am playing on one of the pregenerated 8k maps and have not been farther than the burned biome. In the forest there are so many forest POIs now that I would doubt anyone who would tell me that he couldn't find a POI to clear in the time until a storm starts. In the burned biome I haven't been around outside town and never looked for it, but it seems less dense?? Maybe adding the same density of wilderness POIs (if my impression is correct) would help a lot. Though I guess at least in wasteland the remnants make up a higher percentage of wilderness POIs making it still a higher challenge finding a POI in time.
If the density were the same though, see above. And by the time you are in burned I expect you to already have a bike and can make healing bandages. And it is not the end of the world to lose a bit of health and get some damage from being exposed a few times. And you should have a wrench already and can wrench, pickle and shovel stuff from a poi even after all zombies inside are dead.
Also I think storms could be a bit shorter and still have the same effect of forcing you to change plans (which is a good thing for the game)
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Though there are situations where you are really forced to do nothing: The nearest wilderness POI is too high level so you are stuck in the entrance hall or outside under an overhang, or you just cleared a wilderness POI when the storm hits. And also when you want to enter a biome and the storm is there already.
The last problem might be avoidable largely if storms were for the whole map at the same time though it might have performance reasons why this isn't done. But the game could also reduce the chance for a storm starting or happening when someone just enters a biome (it will still happen in multiplayer because someone else is already inside the biome)
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@faatal : I heard you are discussing further options to improve storms already. May I suggest one option you may or may not have thought off:
Make the damage partly to stamina. (And reduce the health damage when someone drinks the otherwise nearly useless biome-specific smoothie)
And a question: Is wilderness POI density the same in all biomes?
If the density were the same though, see above. And by the time you are in burned I expect you to already have a bike and can make healing bandages. And it is not the end of the world to lose a bit of health and get some damage from being exposed a few times. And you should have a wrench already and can wrench, pickle and shovel stuff from a poi even after all zombies inside are dead.
Also I think storms could be a bit shorter and still have the same effect of forcing you to change plans (which is a good thing for the game)
---
Though there are situations where you are really forced to do nothing: The nearest wilderness POI is too high level so you are stuck in the entrance hall or outside under an overhang, or you just cleared a wilderness POI when the storm hits. And also when you want to enter a biome and the storm is there already.
The last problem might be avoidable largely if storms were for the whole map at the same time though it might have performance reasons why this isn't done. But the game could also reduce the chance for a storm starting or happening when someone just enters a biome (it will still happen in multiplayer because someone else is already inside the biome)
---
@faatal : I heard you are discussing further options to improve storms already. May I suggest one option you may or may not have thought off:
Make the damage partly to stamina. (And reduce the health damage when someone drinks the otherwise nearly useless biome-specific smoothie)
And a question: Is wilderness POI density the same in all biomes?
4sheetzngeegles
Hunter
A possible addition, that should still be performant is to use the gradients, that the sky depend on
in the affected zone. The same way it represents the sky, during a pre blood moon. The skybox covers
the entire play area of the map. When a storm begins in any of the other biomes, the sky and cloud
color can take on their hue until complete. basically call it a BFstorm spectrum, DSstorm spectrum,
WLstorm spectrum, SNstorm spectum. and it could be set to be triggered by the storm event.
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I only once had to wait outside the biome for the storm to end, because it caught me entering the biome, the argument of inactivity is false, you can do other things as has already been said, another thing is that you do not want to be interrupted, what about the escreamer, or when you craft a weapon in the workbench? You have to wait or do something else,like storms.I understand players who don't want to be interrupted,they can always turn them off in the menu.
Dark Sun
Scavenger
I can understand having the muse to build and decorate, and not wanting to be interrupted during that session, however.
Post automatically merged:
In which case, yes, feel free to turn them off temporarily.
Riamus
Hunter
Ok, so when my inventory and motorcycle were full and I'd gotten everything from the POI that would fit, what do you have in mind that I do?
As has been pointed out, whether or not you can do something depends on the situation you are in. In my case, I specifically stated that I did do something when I was waiting on that storm for entering the biome to do a badge, but it meant not being able to do what I was trying to do.
Screamers or crafting are not at all the same thing. If a screamer comes, I can kill them in seconds and continue whatever I am doing. Killing them is also an active thing to do. They might be an interruption, but an extremely short and minor one. Crafting is really not a problem either. You don't have to sit and wait for something to craft. Almost all my crafting is done by starting it and then going to do something. My goal with crafting is to get something started crafting and then do something else. It isn't to sit there "actively" crafting something, because there is no such thing in this game. And there's no reason I can't do something else in the meantime. If I'm crafting, I'm at my base (or it's inventory crafting, which means I have space in my inventory and can do anything else while it crafts). That means, I can easily do any base activities or else I can unload so I have room to go do something like questing or scavenging or mining. On the other hand, if I'm out in the middle of a biome with a storm and my inventory is full because I was on my way back to base after filling it up, what do you think I'm going to do while I wait for the storm to end? If I'm full, I can't exactly scavenge a POI or mine. I could kill zombies in the POI, but if I had already done that because the storm started while I was already doing that, then there's not even any enemies to fight.
Now, just to make it clear, this is a 2.0 game. Obviously 2.1 made changes to storms. Maybe they will not be a big deal anymore now that they are shorter.
Jost Amman
Hunter
Store everything in a chest and keep going?
Mining and crafting cobblestone and then upgrading POI blocks for XP?
Digging a tunnel to the nearest POI (if in a city) and starting back from scratch there?
Your imagination is the limit.
Edit: in that specific instance anyway you didn't plan ahead very well in my opinion. After 2.0 we need to consider storms like a possibility, so, if you know the general route you'll take from a town/city you're looting/questing, to where your base is, then you should consider building a few small emergency shelters along the way (you don't need to build many, only the ones where there's no other shelter available along the path!).
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Roland
Community Moderator
This always happens when a new feature is added. People decide it can’t be played and declare the function bad.
After awhile some people will figure it out and then everyone else who thought it was impossible starts copying them and the complaints die out.
Yesterday Inwas in our base and my brother was waiting for me to start a quest together about 600 meters away. A storm warning began. Did I say “aw shucks this feature is so dumb because now we have to wait 5minutes doing nothing before we begin!”? No. I said I’m going to go for it.
It was the day after horde night and I had forgotten to pick up my robotic sledge from our horde base. I raced to the horde base watching the fog rise up and the timer ticking down. It was tricky getting to the spot where I had placed my sledge because we hadn’t made repairs yet and I fell and had to try again. I made it the second time and grabbed my sledge and then got back to my bike. By this time the storm was beginning and it was craaaaazy maneuvering the rest if the way to my brother. I had to stop and take a Merdkit and then resume but made it there hurt but alive. We activated the beacon and raced inside and did the quest. The storm finished at some time during the quest.
I could have just waited in the base for 5 minutes but I wasn’t forced to. Instead I had a thrilling journey to my quest. I never just hide. It’s funny to me that people think it’s the only option.
I’m not saying storms don’t need to be improved but they are great the way they are if you don’t believe hiding is your only option. They often create thrilling and knuckle biting situations if you choose not to hide.
Riamus
Hunter
If I can't run to the next POI, I'm certainly not going to try to dig there, especially since if it's not in a straight cardinal direction, it's a pain to dig a straight line. And consider that at that time, I didn't have any decent mining tools and I don't put points into mining perks in the early game, it would have been a waste of time since it would have taken longer to do that than waiting the 10 minutes or so for the storm to end.Store everything in a chest and keep going?
Mining and crafting cobblestone and then upgrading POI blocks for XP?
Digging a tunnel to the nearest POI (if in a city) and starting back from scratch there?
Your imagination is the limit.
Upgrading for XP to use time just seems dumb to me. I might as well just jump up and down. It is a waste of resources for a small amount of XP. It is one thing to get XP when doing a base, where you want the stuff there. It's another to just do it in the middle of nowhere.
Storing stuff only to have to them come back to grab it later if I'm not intending to return to the area is more of a waste of time than waiting out the storm.
Let's just be clear on this. Can you do something? Yes. Are the things you can do something that you would have any interest in doing or that you'd find engaging or fun? Not necessarily. I mean, I could have spent the time destroying the POI. That doesn't mean I'm going to want to do that.
And in any case, if you look back to what I originally was saying about it, it was that the storms are made to look interesting and you're stuck going inside instead of experiencing them. Finding something to do inside a POI or underground doesn't change that. My comments about waiting around were just two experiences I had where if I could go out in the storm, I would have done so and enjoyed the storm.
Jost Amman
Hunter
Thanks. You've proven my original point again.
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
no clue what psychotic world you live in considering a dr the same as a killer,
in the real world Batons are used by law enforcement and security personnel as a less-lethal option for self-defense and crowd control.
guns are insta kill weapons.
the thing is that you have to be prepared and adapt to the problems that the game proposes you, not the other way around,
If you are with a full inventory is that you have not foreseen the situation, you can always keep it in a box and come back for it,
Sometimes it can happen that you can not do something you had planned, it is part of the apocalypse you have to think before you can do to avoid it, take more medkits, food, drink, a tool to mine etc.
it's the adapt or die that makes it interesting.
of course the game can be played in different ways and with different options, for example with feral sense in wasteland, you will rarely stay afk unless you hide in a dark corner and stay there especially at night.
the screamer interruptions can be even more tedious than the storm, they may scream before you can do anything, and you are forced to kill hordes before you can continue what you were doing, and that's part of the fun and the apocalypse.
Another example is mining, I have to spend 30 min just pressing a button to get material to burn in the forge to craft things, but it's part of the fun of the game I can raise the loot percentage if I want, in the menu but I don't do it, so as not to break the experience.
With the storms you are not forced to sit and wait, it's your choice, risk it or choose the easy way to wait, of course sometimes it's better to wait if you are not prepared and play permanent death.
and the storms, as has already been said, there are things that can be improved, what I would not like is to eliminate the danger because then there is no survival mechanics, just some cool visuals.
A broken leg also forces you to inaction, unless you have the material and/or perks to compensate.