You've Stripped the Soul Out of 7 Days to Die

[Roland]

Hopefully they re-add temperature and remove hard constraints on biome progression for a more soft progression. I.E. You can go to whatever zone you want and play but it would be considerably more difficult due to the biome itself. This can be accomplished by the old system of needing more water or more food as an example from old. You could spend some time in the biome but you would need to compensate with a considerable amount more time fending off the elements. So you could rush to the snow biome but your challenge would be staving off freezing (needing fire) and starving (needing food). You can tweak the values as you see fit but the idea is that unless you want a more miserable experience then go down the prescribed path for playing otherwise, while you can go to any zone it will be very taxing to survive there but you could do it.

I'm not against your idea and suggestion but I do wonder why you think that having to eat meals more frequently and carry a torch around or build a network of campfires is less of a constraint than drinking smoothies? If you were talking about thematic realism I would agree that using fire and eating meals is better than drinking smoothies but from a gameplay standpoint there isn't a whole lot of difference between eating a meal and drinking a smoothie. It's the same gameplay.

Again, I'd be all for fire and food if that change was made but I think it would be more taxing on the player having to stop and wait near a fire or constantly carry a torch in addition to all the extra eating whereas now it is drink one thing every five minutes and you can go straight to the snow biome (provided you can gather the smoothie materials of course)

 

[Roland]

A23 is the first time I've built a series of wooden boxes, each 10 seconds of sprinting apart, from a trader to my base in the next town. Can't remember doing that to avoid "wetness". I do remember looting for clothes to keep warm and dry. Only one of these things makes sense.

<shrug> I remember placing campfires at certain intervals for the old cold mechanic that is remembered with such fondness. Doesn't seem too different than what you just described. Not that I, personally, would do what you described. Remember that the OP stated that a lot of the fun is in the prep and planning and if you made proper outposts at intervals for the purpose of being able to move through storms that would make sense and is something that you could do. Nobody is forcing you to craft a series of wooden boxes that seem nonsensical to you. But...sandbox, so you can if you want.

 

[EvilPolygons]

They criticize storms that make you (allegedly) sit and wait but laud wetness that made you....sit and wait. If these same storms as they are had been part of A16 then they too would have been remembered with fondness and nostalgia.

Completely agree with this. 100%. I don't understand the hate some people have for storms. In every survival game I've ever played, what do you do during storms? You hunker down or suffer the consequences. The complaints I've been reading about storms are just bizarre to me.

However, while you're right about the old temperature and wetness features being like storms (in the sense that they made you sit around and wait), the difference is that... back then you could get soaked/cold and then quickly dry off/warm up by sitting next to a fire. Being wet at night even in the forest could be dangerous because it lowered your core temperature. And being soaked in the desert was actually a good thing for the same reason.

So my point is that there was interaction, strategy, and player agency involved in the old system. I guess that's just too much "simulation" for some people, but I absolutely love that kind of stuff. Still, I completely agree with you about storms and I'm super happy that they were added to the game!

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Some people will never get over it and never stop expressing their bitterness

You wouldn't be trying to deligitimize the feelings and opinions of half the community, would you? That wouldn't be very moderate of you.

Opinions like these boil down to what half the community feels is oversimplification and a palatable focus on accessibility to a larger audience on the part of TFP, i.e. aiming at (what I see as the fictional) "casual players," but their opinions are as legitimate as any other whether they're agreed with or not and it just so happens those kinds of opinions apply to the general direction of the gaming industry itself. Aside from the indie space -- and increasingly less and less even there -- there are no real niches anymore and 7DTD is a perfect example of this. It's not strictly a survival game or a RPG or whatever-category-you-may-have to put it in just as most supposed RPGs are now "action games with RPG elements," which smacks of chasing profit over player enjoyment or experience. Not saying that's what TFP is doing, but that this is the general trend in the industry and I'm honestly not sure if TFP is fully conscious of it. It seems every publisher wants every developer to develop the next Skyrim or, especially, "Game as a Service" like Fortnite when the best, most successful in every way games essentially always have been lightning in a bottle, like the original Fallout.

I'd kind of like to see the niches make a comeback myself because the old truism applies: "Try to please everyone and you'll end up pleasing no one."

 

[Rotor]

What it comes down to for many (and possibly the OP) is that about 5-6 years ago the devs:

Funny thing is I started, I think A18. Forget. And I see the trend without playing the supposedly glorious 16.

 

[Kyoji]

Completely agree with this. 100%. I don't understand the hate some people have for storms. In every survival game I've ever played, what do you do during storms? You hunker down or suffer the consequences. The complaints I've been reading about storms are just bizarre to me.

However, while you're right about the old temperature and wetness features being like storms (in the sense that they made you sit around and wait), the difference is that... back then you could get soaked/cold and then quickly dry off/warm up by sitting next to a fire. Being wet at night even in the forest could be dangerous because it lowered your core temperature. And being soaked in the desert was actually a good thing for the same reason.

So my point is that there was interaction, strategy, and player agency involved in the old system. I guess that's just too much "simulation" for some people, but I absolutely love that kind of stuff. Still, I completely agree with you about storms and I'm super happy that they were added to the game!

My personal dislike for them is that they look too nice for you to hide in shelter. Seems like shallow design. I think being able to brave the storm and potentially run into zombies due to your blocked vision is more entertaining than simply needing to hide out for a few minutes. Also, for wetness you could still go out and do things you just might get sick if I recall correctly. Eventually my dream game would have wetness still be a thing that would have a percent chance roll every X minutes to give Flu or Cold debuff(s) where you would need cough medicine or some remedy to alleviate/fix the ailment. Generally the idea is choice. You can choose to stay within shelter or brave the elements to push forward and gather before the 7th day and take the chance. That is the kind of suspense we could use IMO. Again it's about choices.

<shrug> I remember placing campfires at certain intervals for the old cold mechanic that is remembered with such fondness. Doesn't seem too different than what you just described. Not that I, personally, would do what you described. Remember that the OP stated that a lot of the fun is in the prep and planning and if you made proper outposts at intervals for the purpose of being able to move through storms that would make sense and is something that you could do. Nobody is forcing you to craft a series of wooden boxes that seem nonsensical to you. But...sandbox, so you can if you want.

Great question. That idea was in tandem with not hard restricting zones. So for example you would still have a progression system. However, instead of making people die seconds or minutes into the zone you make living there much more taxing and tedious so that it is possible to visit or even live but it is very difficult and requires a lot more effort to do so. This is a soft barrier to a zone rather than a hard barrier. In this way it encourages players to progress through the game as intended but without preventing people from toughing it out if they so choose. I think it would be more realistic and give players more agency in their path without ruining the direction TFP want to go with some more streamlining of the game.

Also, food and drinks in general seem more natural than smoothies and any drink or food would suffice whereas you would need to craft specific smoothies. For Wasteland you could use iodine tablets that you can find and for the Burnt Forest you can use a gas filter to get rid of smoke inhalation. I know the last two are more taxing on development than a smoothie color change but I think if the goal is long term that's where we want to aim to where it is more realistic IMHO.

 

[EvilPolygons]

My personal dislike for them is that they look too nice for you to hide in shelter. Seems like shallow design. I think being able to brave the storm and potentially run into zombies due to your blocked vision is more entertaining than simply needing to hide out for a few minutes. Also, for wetness you could still go out and do things you just might get sick if I recall correctly. Eventually my dream game would have wetness still be a thing that would have a percent chance roll every X minutes to give Flu or Cold debuff(s) where you would need cough medicine or some remedy to alleviate/fix the ailment. Generally the idea is choice. You can choose to stay within shelter or brave the elements to push forward and gather before the 7th day and take the chance. That is the kind of suspense we could use IMO. Again it's about choices.

ExCyborg's Medical Conditions mod does exactly that. Pneumonia, flu, heatstroke, all kinds of stuff. And just today he re-added wetness back into the game via his mods.

 

[Kyoji]

ExCyborg's Medical Conditions mod does exactly that. Pneumonia, flu, heatstroke, all kinds of stuff. And just today he re-added wetness back into the game via his mods.

There are a plethora of good mods out there. Many of which eventually make appearances in some form in the base game. It's not to say you can't mod your own things in but rather current storm iterations seem lacking. While I am not sure about that specific mod you mentioned, and thank you for that information, it would be nice to see some of that in the game. From what I understand some of the weather effects will be returning they just couldn't make the cut with the current storms patch. So fingers crossed for perhaps an expansion on the storms concept. I think they have a solid core with the storms and the visuals for sure. Just a touch more to make it magnifique.

 

[Roland]

My personal dislike for them is that they look too nice for you to hide in shelter. Seems like shallow design. I think being able to brave the storm and potentially run into zombies due to your blocked vision is more entertaining than simply needing to hide out for a few minutes. Also, for wetness you could still go out and do things you just might get sick if I recall correctly. Eventually my dream game would have wetness still be a thing that would have a percent chance roll every X minutes to give Flu or Cold debuff(s) where you would need cough medicine or some remedy to alleviate/fix the ailment. Generally the idea is choice. You can choose to stay within shelter or brave the elements to push forward and gather before the 7th day and take the chance. That is the kind of suspense we could use IMO. Again it's about choices.


Great question. That idea was in tandem with not hard restricting zones. So for example you would still have a progression system. However, instead of making people die seconds or minutes into the zone you make living there much more taxing and tedious so that it is possible to visit or even live but it is very difficult and requires a lot more effort to do so. This is a soft barrier to a zone rather than a hard barrier. In this way it encourages players to progress through the game as intended but without preventing people from toughing it out if they so choose. I think it would be more realistic and give players more agency in their path without ruining the direction TFP want to go with some more streamlining of the game.

Also, food and drinks in general seem more natural than smoothies and any drink or food would suffice whereas you would need to craft specific smoothies. For Wasteland you could use iodine tablets that you can find and for the Burnt Forest you can use a gas filter to get rid of smoke inhalation. I know the last two are more taxing on development than a smoothie color change but I think if the goal is long term that's where we want to aim to where it is more realistic IMHO.

No disagreement about having mods or consumables to mitigate the damage of the storms to make it easier to play outside while they rage. I’m 99% certain they will continue to develop them in this way though modders will beat them to the punch.

As for the soft vs hard barrier, the old snow biome was a very hard barrier and you would slow and die within minutes. Used to spawn there and have to run hoping it was towards the border before the grace period expired. That doesn’t change your point that a softer barrier is preferred to a harder one. It’s just interesting that the barrier was hard before but it is remembered with fondness by those criticizing the current barrier.

Personally I don’t think the barrier is that hard with the timer that allows you to enter without any debuffs—just gotta watch the timer. And the recovery is super fast. Getting a few smoothies together gives you a completely soft barrier.

 

[Riamus]

I'd kind of like to see the niches make a comeback myself because the old truism applies: "Try to please everyone and you'll end up pleasing no one."

Heh... and yet, TFP isn't trying to please everyone. That's why people are upset. They want it their way and TFP keeps saying no. Just because they have a certain plan for the game and it differs from what you want doesn't mean they are trying to please everyone. It just means they aren't trying to please you.

Also, purist survival games (or hardcore survival games if you prefer) still are niche. Only a small percentage of players like that, which is why few games go that route. Most will focus on a wider crowd of interest. Some, like this, will touch on survival elements to one degree or another, the most that do will not push to far in that direction. The simple fact is that most players want to play a game for fun and not for work. And most gamers these days are adults with jobs who can't sit around for hours just to handle some simulated survival mechanic that requires a lot of extra work to do so that it's more realistic and challenging.

 

[Roland]

You wouldn't be trying to deligitimize the feelings and opinions of half the community, would you? That wouldn't be very moderate of you.

I don't think I was deligitimizing them. I was reporting on the history of it. Nothing I said hasn't been said by most of those who hated the A16/A17 change. Most rants about new features include a "Why or why couldn't the devs have just improved and continued with what we had in A16" lament. Most say the game has been headed in the wrong direction for years now.

Funny thing is I started, I think A18. Forget. And I see the trend without playing the supposedly glorious 16.

Sure, that makes sense. They have been going in this current direction for years. It would be hard not to notice regardless of when you started.

 

[EvilPolygons]

And most gamers these days are adults with jobs who can't sit around for hours just to handle some simulated survival mechanic that requires a lot of extra work to do so that it's more realistic and challenging.

It's funny you say that, because the vast majority of sim geeks I've met -- and the ones you'll find on various message boards -- tend to be older professionals, generally in their 50's and 60's. Especially the flight sim and sub sim guys. It's rare to find younger people who are interested in hardcore sims because they are generally slow, "tedious." and don't offer much instant gratification.

The thing about getting older and doing well for yourself is that you have the luxury of spending your free time as you please.

 

[WarMongerian]

What it comes down to for many (and possibly the OP) is that about 5-6 years ago the devs:

1) changed the method of progression from learn by doing to skillpoint shopping,
2) removed some beloved mechanics like weapon parts and combining,
3) overhauled the zombie AI/pathing, and
4) added many more of the dungeon POIs replacing many of the original non-dungeon POIs in the game and introduced sleepers.

It was a major shift in the direction of the game. It was the update from Alpha 16 to Alpha 17 and for those who hated that Alpha 17 update, nothing has been good enough since. Because every update since A17 has built upon that design and moved the game farther away from their A16 ideal, all of the new content is automatically poisoned.

Unless TFP includes a return to the A16 design model along with whatever else they do, the people who are pining for A16 won't be happy. A16 was the soul and heart of the game in their view while A17 and beyond has been soulless and uninspired garbage design. They can't help but want to demonize new content since it goes along with post A16 designs. The OP talks about survival features from A16 as though they are somehow amazingly superior to the survival features we have now in 2.0 when in fact there isn't much functional difference between them. They criticize storms that make you (allegedly) sit and wait but laud wetness that made you....sit and wait. If these same storms as they are had been part of A16 then they too would have been remembered with fondness and nostalgia.

A16 to A17 was the major schism of the development journey. Some people will never get over it and never stop expressing their bitterness over the decisions that were made.

Yea, maybe TFP can ban AI threads, it seems like a floodgate is about to open and this kind of thing isn't going to make these forums better.

This thread's OP way just too long and had so many points that I personally disagreed with, it would take me days, just to reply to that one post.

And that is not even to mention, a vast amount of the gripes don't mention that the things that were supposedly better, were from versions past, without crediting those versions. To much information, and I don't have the time to spend answering these AI posts.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

The simple fact is that most players want to play a game for fun and not for work.

And yet there's more busywork in this game than any I've ever played (thock-thock-thock) mostly due to the voxel nature of the game, I'm sure.

Facepalm if you like, but the general industry trend is there and a rift -- a split right down the middle -- exists in every community of every sort with which I'm familiar from the BGS vs. Obsidian feuds to the irresolvable rift between purveyors of liberalism and. conservatism. Somehow I think we humans forgot somewhere along the way that "versus" means "as opposed to" in the sense of balance and not necessarily competition or, heavens forbid, outright warfare, verbal and otherwise.

 

[Annihilatorza]

That is not the pattern I follow and every time I restart I choose a different attribute to focus on which give me very different feeling runs. You didn't have any bullet points for starting a farm, starting a mine, or starting a base. I don't do the exact same base design every time either. I do trader quests among other activities. I don't search for magazines. I explore a variety of POIs and find magazines as I play which is very different than running around searching for magazines. The loop you describe is only one of many possible loops and players have the freedom to choose any of them. The only thing that would cause the game to feel linear and restricted to one single path is if you are trying to min/max the progression and feel that there is only one best most efficient path that must be followed. Day 30 is pretty fast. I'm still progressing on day 60 usually. There is no one competing against me to win the progression race so I don't feel the need to sprint through it all. Why do you try to get it all done by day 30?


Agreed. Many features have been removed and were not left in and fixed. I have fond memories of many of them. Some I don't miss and others I was glad they were removed. The key is that I was expecting such things to happen because that is normal for any project in development. I disagree that they destroyed elements of survival. Farm plots for example. Sure, you can't just place crops anywhere but you can place farm plots anywhere and then place crops in them. It really is no difference to survival and is just an aesthetic cosmetic difference. That's how I feel about most of your list. You don't like what replaced them but they do have basically the same impact on survival that the originals did. Feral sense is even more of a threat than smell was.


No. This is abjectly false. I am the proof simply by playing the game more than one time through because I play the game differently almost every time I play-- at least differently from the most recent playthrough. Every activity can be done at a minimal acceptable level without spending any points or reading a single magazine. You have my sympathy that you can only think of one single way to play the game. There are more options and things to do now than ever existed before. If there is at least one other person who plays the game in a variety of ways that is more proof of how false your claim is. In fact, there are many people who figure out various game loops and don't play every single game exactly the same.

Even if what you claimed were true that people can't be miners or farmers or base-bound farmers or non-combat builders without first going into town for quests and magazine runs, according to you that would all be completely over by Day 30. Someone could then play to Day 100 just being a miner, farmer, crafter, or builder without interruption. That's 70% of the game just being them and only 30% of the game doing prescribed tasks. But I'm betting that if Day 30 marks the day of completing everything that someone who just wants to mine could get their mining stats and tools progressed to a satisfactory level by Day 10. So now that's 90% of the game being them and only 10% prepping to be them.

Survival is simply one of many genres of the game. Sandbox is another genre and it because of the sandbox that vending machines have food and drinks for those who want to play that way. If you want to play the game more survival then ignore the vending machines. That's the sandbox nature of the game--player freedom to choose how they obtain their sustenance. I like to go out and hunt and craft dew collectors and then reap the rewards of my efforts. Just because the vending machines exist doesn't mean I must use them.

Let me ask you how planning for wetness was any more survivalistic than planning for the biome hazards or for storms? If I remember correctly it was simply waiting to dry off before going into the snow biome. That was the full extent of prepping and planning for wetness. Compare that to what you need to do plan and prep for the biome hazards and storms and there's no contest. Wetness loses.

If you don't enjoy quests then why are you doing them until you reach Tier 5 and why are you spamming them so hard as to be finished by Day 30? Nothing in the game requires that you play this way. It is simply your choice and whether it is your refusal or inability to play the game differently on subsequent play-throughs doesn't mean that the rest of us are sitting around with nothing to do on Day 30.

You can plant seeds wherever you place a plot and you can place a plot anywhere--even on fertile soil. How does that layer of wood between the fertile soil in the ground and the fertile soil in the box destroy the sandbox? The crops are in the same geographical location either way.

Someone who wants to roleplay as blacksmith might need to prep for it for a day or two max if they visit a few construction sites. Construction sites also have awesome stores of materials that a blacksmith roleplayer would LOVE gathering. You were all over wetness needing some prep and planning but blacksmith roleplayers don't get that love? Again, with 2 days max of prep time someone could spend the next 100 days forging to their heart's content.

Who doesn't wear what they want and who wears the same armor? 2.0 gives us the freedom to make our armor look like any other armor we own. How do stats outweigh style when you can have whatever stats you want with whatever look you want?


It's just perspective. I don't mind the loot caps because from my perspective I now see the wasteland as being worthwhile to go to because there will be loot there not available anywhere else. I understand that I used to be able to get any loot anwhere but that made the world samey and it didn't matter where you went since everything was available everywhere. Loot caps fix that and I don't feel antagonistic about them to begin with.

Think of biomes as "wetness" and the badges as "prepping and planning for wetness". Honestly if you liked wetness because of the planning and prepping needed for it I don't know what you have against biome hazards. The badges are just an icon. If it was a smoke mask or rad suit or cooling or warming inserts, they would be more thematically pleasing but the survival element would be the same. The badges in and of themselves don't make the gameplay more or less survival.

The badges represent the skills and survival you withstood to earn the badges. The badges signify that you can now play in the biome with better loot and they also signify that you use your skills to accomplish all the required tasks as well as survived the hazard until you overcame it.

The storms are much more than simple screen clutter. This tells me that you spent more time formatting your post than you did playing 2.0. You are just completely wrong about the storms. You said a few times they have no gameplay impact, they are just screen effects, they just make things blurry. No. You're completely wrong. You must have read something inaccurate because you certainly haven't played in a storm firsthand.



I play this game largely like I did pre-Traders. I mix in some quests and I enjoy doing them especially when I get to the Tier 4 quests. But I also build, farm, mine, etc. I recognize that this game is not a pure survival game and has a mix of several genres. It doesn't make me mad that some survival elements are less hardcore. I know there are mods that can turn the game into a re-emphasis on survival gameplay. The thing is that so many of your complaints could be solved today by you without any change to the game. Just stop playing it the same way every single time. If you need help thinking of how to play a different way that doesn't lead to maxing out by day 30 I'd be glad to give you some tips.

Hey Roland,


Thanks for listening—seriously. I want to show you what I miss about this game:


Remember those days fighting in the wasteland with nothing but a toilet pistol and a turd in your backpack?
Or making your last stand on top of a parking garage, getting eaten, running back to get your bag, and getting eaten three more times?
Or rounding a corner, running straight into a direwolf, and screaming your head off and maybe needing a underware change?


That was survival. That was chaos. That was fun.


Now, all that’s gone. I can’t even step into a new biome without either turning off features or finishing a checklist just to unlock access.
The sense of adventure and danger has been replaced by ticking boxes.

There’s so much more that could have been done instead of clearing out building after building.

• Rescue missions for refugees
• Stealing something risky from an enemy
• Fixing up a building so an NPC can move in
• Restoring a power plant to bring the grid back online
• Repairing the water system to help a town survive

But we don’t get any of that. After nearly 13 years of development , one of all-time favorite game still has no endgame.
Bandits? They’ve been “coming soon” since late 2017—first promised for Alpha 17, teased again for Alpha 21 in 2021, and now delayed to at least Q2 2025.

Still nothing in Version 1.0

I’m not just nitpicking for the sake of it.

I am extremely passionate about this game, but I’m honestly sad at what’s been lost.
I want that spark back—that feeling that anything could happen.

Thanks for letting me share my side.

 

[theFlu]

<shrug> I remember placing campfires at certain intervals for the old cold mechanic that is remembered with such fondness. Doesn't seem too different than what you just described.

250 frames, vs 8 campfires.
The cold was "winnable" with clothes and progress.
The cold wasn't surprising, so it wouldn't get you stranded at a trader in the middle of nowhere, waiting to get kicked out at a magical time.
And it wasn't this quick at killing you.

Not too different, but I'd say different enough.
Can I eat medkits to live thru either, yeah, sure.

Not that I, personally, would do what you described.

Why not? It's not different to placing a few campfires? Are you just gonna eat medkits on your shopping trip?

Remember that the OP stated that a lot of the fun is in the prep and planning

I do, I also remember your response to that was "the wetness just made you sit and wait". It didn't, you just "forgot" about the prep. The prep was clothes and potentially drinks to manage your temps, carrying torches etc. If dire, box up and make a campfire.
Here the prep is either you dig into the ground or build a box.

Nobody is forcing you to craft a series of wooden boxes that seem nonsensical to you.

True, 19:24 at the trader, storm rolling in. I can just die as I please.
I did it to see how annoying it'd be; it's not horrible, unlike the landscape now. And it's not going to work in snow with the siege engines around, dropping 3000 conc for that project isn't something I'd want to spend.
But wood or conc, I wouldn't suggest a game company make that into a game mechanic.

 

[RipClaw]

Completely agree with this. 100%. I don't understand the hate some people have for storms. In every survival game I've ever played, what do you do during storms? You hunker down or suffer the consequences. The complaints I've been reading about storms are just bizarre to me.

Hunkering down is just one option. Usually, I quickly look for a POI to loot or mine resources while the storm is raging.

 

[theFlu]

Now, all that’s gone. I can’t even step into a new biome without either turning off features or finishing a checklist just to unlock access.
The sense of adventure and danger has been replaced by ticking boxes.

With the biomes, it's obvious tickboxing. But that's the main change from A16 I think, back then it was just you vs a world, you decide where to go and when. Today, it's you vs 50 fetches, in a row. You can do other stuff while at it, but that's where the game mechanics want you to go. To the next "randomly selected" POI on a strict list of progressive difficulty. To fight thru a strictly laid out path there. Open world, on rails from start to finish.

 

[meganoth]

Hey Roland,


Thanks for listening—seriously. I want to show you what I miss about this game:


Remember those days fighting in the wasteland with nothing but a toilet pistol and a turd in your backpack?
Or making your last stand on top of a parking garage, getting eaten, running back to get your bag, and getting eaten three more times?
Or rounding a corner, running straight into a direwolf, and screaming your head off and maybe needing a underware change?


That was survival. That was chaos. That was fun.


Now, all that’s gone. I can’t even step into a new biome without either turning off features or finishing a checklist just to unlock access.
The sense of adventure and danger has been replaced by ticking boxes.

There’s so much more that could have been done instead of clearing out building after building.

• Rescue missions for refugees
• Stealing something risky from an enemy
• Fixing up a building so an NPC can move in
• Restoring a power plant to bring the grid back online
• Repairing the water system to help a town survive

But we don’t get any of that. After nearly 13 years of development , one of all-time favorite game still has no endgame.
Bandits? They’ve been “coming soon” since late 2017—first promised for Alpha 17, teased again for Alpha 21 in 2021, and now delayed to at least Q2 2025.

Still nothing in Version 1.0

I’m not just nitpicking for the sake of it.

I am extremely passionate about this game, but I’m honestly sad at what’s been lost.
I want that spark back—that feeling that anything could happen.

Thanks for letting me share my side.

So you had so much fun in the old game. Which had no endgame either. Just saying, that won't be the solution.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

What it comes down to for many (and possibly the OP) is that about 5-6 years ago the devs:

1) changed the method of progression from learn by doing to skillpoint shopping,
2) removed some beloved mechanics like weapon parts and combining,
3) overhauled the zombie AI/pathing, and
4) added many more of the dungeon POIs replacing many of the original non-dungeon POIs in the game and introduced sleepers.

It was a major shift in the direction of the game. It was the update from Alpha 16 to Alpha 17 and for those who hated that Alpha 17 update, nothing has been good enough since. Because every update since A17 has built upon that design and moved the game farther away from their A16 ideal, all of the new content is automatically poisoned.

Unless TFP includes a return to the A16 design model along with whatever else they do, the people who are pining for A16 won't be happy. A16 was the soul and heart of the game in their view while A17 and beyond has been soulless and uninspired garbage design. They can't help but want to demonize new content since it goes along with post A16 designs. The OP talks about survival features from A16 as though they are somehow amazingly superior to the survival features we have now in 2.0 when in fact there isn't much functional difference between them. They criticize storms that make you (allegedly) sit and wait but laud wetness that made you....sit and wait. If these same storms as they are had been part of A16 then they too would have been remembered with fondness and nostalgia.

A16 to A17 was the major schism of the development journey. Some people will never get over it and never stop expressing their bitterness over the decisions that were made.

You left out the most significant change they implemented in a17,
5) the party system and the quest system.
Ultimately, the addition of these features severely impacted the game's survivability.
This occurred primarily because players began utilizing them to power level and acquire everything they required without the necessity of traversing the map, leading many to rely on traders rather than their own ability to survive.
In fact, I believe this is the main reason many individuals assert and stress that a16 was the best alpha, as it lacked these two disruptive features.