You've Stripped the Soul Out of 7 Days to Die

I partly agree: They never got the trader and all his rewards balanced correctly in the previous alphas, and the POI respawn for quests removed any need for exploration.

I never really thought of it before, but now that you said it.... you are so right. The POI respawn really does hurt exploration. Without it, you would reach a point of diminishing returns with questing, since you would have to go further and further away to quest as you would be using up the closer POIs.
 
I partly agree: They never got the trader and all his rewards balanced correctly in the previous alphas, and the POI respawn for quests removed any need for exploration.
For me, it is quite straightforward to understand why numerous individuals believe that a16 was the finest alpha;
anyone engaging in multiplayer anticipates and desires fairness, devoid of any unscrupulous exploits

A) The party system enables players to be power-leveled, allowing any level 1 participant in the party to remain near any prefab poi, contributing nothing but benefiting from the experience points gained by party members who are actively farming experience points and rapidly clearing prefabs consecutively. Speed clearing or experience bot farming.

B) The party gamestage and party loot stage bonus are determined by the individual with the highest level and are allocated to all other members of the party.
level 1 players can be in the pine forrest while his max level party member(s) goes to the wasteland, the level 1 player will now have all the high bonus of the highest player in the party.
1) I have not yet tested this in version 2.0 yet to see if it still applies.
2) From versions (a17-1.0) it was applicable.

C) Now add the capacity to reset quests for unlimited loot, along with the gamestage and party stage bonuses and experience points, it becomes exceedingly evident why so many individuals regard a16 as the best alpha, these things where not possible to do than.

My concluding thought on this matter, as I have consistently stated, throughout version 2.0 is that this alpha is shaping up to be the most outstanding PvP update that TFP has implemented, putting game stage cap on the biomes was necessary to mitigate certain exploits people where doing.
great job tfp for making this the best pvp update yet!
 
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so i just ran a quick test with another player
player A) was in the snow biom level 58
player B) was in the pine forrest biom level 3

player B gamestage and loot stage both was 9
when player B joined party with player A it jumped to game stage 229 and loot stage 173
this confirms game stage and loot stage bonus has no cap range for players in party, it still assigns the bonus no matter how far people are away from each other.
xp share does have a range
 
Heh, that's a great first day experience, "go do a buried supplies at GS 229", what could go wrong, it's just a couple zeds.
not sure if that would be possible now since the biom loot stage cap was put in.
Screenshot 2025-06-26 102528.png
gamestage it probably would be possible meaning that low lvl player would see raidated and higher tier zeds being level 3 with a gamestage of 229
 
For me, it is quite straightforward to understand why numerous individuals believe that a16 was the finest alpha;
anyone engaging in multiplayer anticipates and desires fairness, devoid of any unscrupulous exploits

A) The party system enables players to be power-leveled, allowing any level 1 participant in the party to remain near any prefab poi, contributing nothing but benefiting from the experience points gained by party members who are actively farming experience points and rapidly clearing prefabs consecutively. Speed clearing or experience bot farming.

Only a problem in PvP. As such irrelevant for the majority of players. And since we talk about the general replayability of the game I'd say the influence on that (or the "soul of 7d2d") is negligible.

B) The party gamestage and party loot stage bonus are determined by the individual with the highest level and are allocated to all other members of the party.
level 1 players can be in the pine forrest while his max level party member(s) goes to the wasteland, the level 1 player will now have all the high bonus of the highest player in the party.
1) I have not yet tested this in version 2.0 yet to see if it still applies.
2) From versions (a17-1.0) it was applicable.

Again a PvP-centric problem.

Not a problem for me in SP or co-op private MP. It simply doesn't come up that anyone around me is at a very different level. Even if I were playing on an open PvE server I wouldn't really care if others were doing it.

But if someone in my group is in a t5 poi in the wasteland by chance and I would get his loot-stage in the forest then I would actually be miffed that I would get too good stuff even though I didn't deserve it. I would prefer if the party kill range (100m at default) also applied to lootstage, or lootstage is only shared in quests.

C) Now add the capacity to reset quests for unlimited loot, along with the gamestage and party stage bonuses and experience points, it becomes exceedingly evident why so many individuals regard a16 as the best alpha, these things where not possible to do than.

A PvP problem. Though as I said, for a different reason (exploration incentive) you would have my support for an option to turn off POI respawn on quest start.

My concluding thought on this matter, as I have consistently stated, throughout version 2.0 is that this alpha is shaping up to be the most outstanding PvP update that TFP has implemented, putting game stage cap on the biomes was necessary to mitigate certain exploits people where doing.
great job tfp for making this the best pvp update yet!
 
Not a problem for me in SP or co-op private MP. It simply doesn't come up that anyone around me is at a very different level. Even if I were playing on an open PvE server I wouldn't really care if others were doing it.
what your not considering is even in your home game or multiplayer,
if your brother, mother, cousin, sister, father or who ever else joins you while your high level and they are low level coming to play than guess what? That person is going to log in and have your gamestage at level 1 as soon as they join your party.
That family member or friend is not going be to happy about starting a new game against highstage zombies no matter what poi they go into in the pine forrest or wondering around.
This player will also have to face every sleeper gametstage you have to, even though he is a new player trying to start out.
 
what your not considering is even in your home game or multiplayer,
if your brother, mother, cousin, sister, father or who ever else joins you while your high level and they are low level coming to play than guess what? That person is going to log in and have your gamestage at level 1 as soon as they join your party.
That family member or friend is not going be to happy about starting a new game against highstage zombies no matter what poi they go into in the pine forrest or wondering around.
This player will also have to face every sleeper gametstage you have to, even though he is a new player trying to start out.

Right, that could be a problem. Again not for me, I would easily adapt. We normally would do quests together anyway. And I could give him better equipment to cope with stronger zombies as well.
But generally this seems an unintended consequence and is worthy of a fix.
 
I never really thought of it before, but now that you said it.... you are so right. The POI respawn really does hurt exploration. Without it, you would reach a point of diminishing returns with questing, since you would have to go further and further away to quest as you would be using up the closer POIs.
If you were going to keep redoing lower tier quests, sure. But with only 10 quests each tier, you should have enough different POI nearby for that. At least for the first few tiers. The first already had minimal high tier POI in RWG and the quests can send you even 4km away for one even if there was one closer that you have done before. So I don't really see that as a problem. Now, if you wanted to keep doing a specific tier over and over, you could start getting duplicates and a change to resets could give you reason to go to a different trader. But how many people do that? At least until tier 6. And at that point, you are probably getting sent to every tier 5 POI within 4km anyhow

But even going to a different trader isn't the same as exploring. The game doesn't offer any reason to explore because loot can be found anywhere. There aren't hidden chests that contain stuff you can't find anywhere else. There aren't unique map features that you won't see other places. Other than location, it is really the same anywhere on the map. Whether or not quests reset POI, that wouldn't change people actually exploring.
 
I never really thought of it before, but now that you said it.... you are so right. The POI respawn really does hurt exploration. Without it, you would reach a point of diminishing returns with questing, since you would have to go further and further away to quest as you would be using up the closer POIs.

At this point I can't remember if it's a vanilla option or a mod, but you can prevent POIs from being quested more than once. Disabling chunk resets is another thing you can do, and that's definitely a vanilla option.
 
...The game doesn't offer any reason to explore because loot can be found anywhere. There aren't hidden chests that contain stuff you can't find anywhere else. There aren't unique map features that you won't see other places. Other than location, it is really the same anywhere on the map. Whether or not quests reset POI, that wouldn't change people actually exploring.

Oof. That's something I've never really considered before in that particular context. What you just mentioned is probably the best argument I've seen yet in favor of unique loot and/or bosses, especially for RWG maps.
 
I never really thought of it before, but now that you said it.... you are so right. The POI respawn really does hurt exploration. Without it, you would reach a point of diminishing returns with questing, since you would have to go further and further away to quest as you would be using up the closer POIs.
100% respawn, It hurts exploration. Without it, you’d eventually use up the close-by POIs, forcing you to venture further, take risks, and really explore. But as it stands, I can just go to a POI, loot it, reset it, loot it again, and cash in my quest reward. It’s fast, it’s efficient, and it’s totally predictable.

And in the Pine Forest, where’s the sense of wonder? There are no interesting buildings that make me say, “Wow, I want to check that out.” It’s just the same T1 houses, post office, saloon, gun shop—over and over. Everything blurs together. So I grind quests just to unlock the next trader, or out of boredom. Even if I walk or cycle across the map, even though I know the biomes are locked down to keep me on the set path.

Why does endgame loot and the big cities have to be gated behind the wasteland? Why not have cities and towns of all sizes, scattered everywhere?

Why can’t a Dishong Tower pop up in the forest, daring me to try it at level 5? Let me bleed, let me fail, let me suffer and die and—eventually when I win ragged bleeding with no bandages or medkits, infected, broken bones, Standing on the roof. The sun coming up, wind in my blood soak hair, the fun the joy is immense and liberating.

But that’s not the design anymore. Now, it’s “play our way, or else.”
Even if I turn off biome progression, cities and loot are still tied to specific biomes, so real agency is gone.

It all feels like gatekeeping, since we dont have anything else to really do in the game.

Give us some real choice. Some real risk. The freedom to write our own stories, not just follow the script you laid out.

And honestly? The way it plays now actually makes me depressed that I’ve become like this—someone who looks at a world that used to feel wild, dangerous, and full of possibility, and now just sees locked doors, checklists, and missed opportunities.
If you were going to keep redoing lower tier quests, sure. But with only 10 quests each tier, you should have enough different POI nearby for that. At least for the first few tiers. The first already had minimal high tier POI in RWG and the quests can send you even 4km away for one even if there was one closer that you have done before. So I don't really see that as a problem. Now, if you wanted to keep doing a specific tier over and over, you could start getting duplicates and a change to resets could give you reason to go to a different trader. But how many people do that? At least until tier 6. And at that point, you are probably getting sent to every tier 5 POI within 4km anyhow

But even going to a different trader isn't the same as exploring. The game doesn't offer any reason to explore because loot can be found anywhere. There aren't hidden chests that contain stuff you can't find anywhere else. There aren't unique map features that you won't see other places. Other than location, it is really the same anywhere on the map. Whether or not quests reset POI, that wouldn't change people actually exploring.
Also what happens in a group of friends each person get a quest, say 5 of you and all help each each complete the quests.

In the small T1 towns you end running into buildings that you have just cleared and have to wait or loot the same building like 4 times in two days. Since all of you want to get the next trader unlocked you have to do 50 Quests in a T1 town and this has happened to us on multi times, now that dont even play anymore at all.

Which is sad.

It quickly becomes a bigger problem and in 2.0 with the locked progression and badges you cant even run to the next biome to branch out without dying.
 
If you were going to keep redoing lower tier quests, sure. But with only 10 quests each tier, you should have enough different POI nearby for that. At least for the first few tiers. The first already had minimal high tier POI in RWG and the quests can send you even 4km away for one even if there was one closer that you have done before. So I don't really see that as a problem. Now, if you wanted to keep doing a specific tier over and over, you could start getting duplicates and a change to resets could give you reason to go to a different trader. But how many people do that? At least until tier 6. And at that point, you are probably getting sent to every tier 5 POI within 4km anyhow

But even going to a different trader isn't the same as exploring. The game doesn't offer any reason to explore because loot can be found anywhere. There aren't hidden chests that contain stuff you can't find anywhere else. There aren't unique map features that you won't see other places. Other than location, it is really the same anywhere on the map. Whether or not quests reset POI, that wouldn't change people actually exploring.
All I can tell you is, in my experience, I often get sent to POIs I'd already done. It would be better if that didn't happen. Would it be a game changer? No, of course not.... but a little better is still better than nothing.
 
100% respawn, It hurts exploration. Without it, you’d eventually use up the close-by POIs, forcing you to venture further, take risks, and really explore. But as it stands, I can just go to a POI, loot it, reset it, loot it again, and cash in my quest reward. It’s fast, it’s efficient, and it’s totally predictable.

And in the Pine Forest, where’s the sense of wonder? There are no interesting buildings that make me say, “Wow, I want to check that out.” It’s just the same T1 houses, post office, saloon, gun shop—over and over. Everything blurs together. So I grind quests just to unlock the next trader, or out of boredom. Even if I walk or cycle across the map, even though I know the biomes are locked down to keep me on the set path.

Why does endgame loot and the big cities have to be gated behind the wasteland? Why not have cities and towns of all sizes, scattered everywhere?

Why can’t a Dishong Tower pop up in the forest, daring me to try it at level 5? Let me bleed, let me fail, let me suffer and die and—eventually when I win ragged bleeding with no bandages or medkits, infected, broken bones, Standing on the roof. The sun coming up, wind in my blood soak hair, the fun the joy is immense and liberating.

But that’s not the design anymore. Now, it’s “play our way, or else.”
Even if I turn off biome progression, cities and loot are still tied to specific biomes, so real agency is gone.

It all feels like gatekeeping, since we dont have anything else to really do in the game.

Give us some real choice. Some real risk. The freedom to write our own stories, not just follow the script you laid out.

And honestly? The way it plays now actually makes me depressed that I’ve become like this—someone who looks at a world that used to feel wild, dangerous, and full of possibility, and now just sees locked doors, checklists, and missed opportunities.

Also what happens in a group of friends each person get a quest, say 5 of you and all help each each complete the quests.

In the small T1 towns you end running into buildings that you have just cleared and have to wait or loot the same building like 4 times in two days. Since all of you want to get the next trader unlocked you have to do 50 Quests in a T1 town and this has happened to us on multi times, now that dont even play anymore at all.

Which is sad.

It quickly becomes a bigger problem and in 2.0 with the locked progression and badges you cant even run to the next biome to branch out without dying.
We just make sure we don't take the same quest. It works well. Yes, that is one less quest available for the day, but you can only do so many in a day anyhow. Add in that even with RWG, which I don't use, you can have 4-5 forest towns without much trouble. That should be plenty to get you through the lower tier quests.

In any case, I understand some people hate doing the same POI more than once, but the way I see it, I'll play the game many times and will do the same POI multiple times even if you could only do it once in a single game, so it doesn't bother me. And it certainly isn't a reason not to explore.
 
In any case, I understand some people hate doing the same POI more than once, but the way I see it, I'll play the game many times and will do the same POI multiple times even if you could only do it once in a single game, so it doesn't bother me. And it certainly isn't a reason not to explore.

Its not really about doing the same POI, its about having an incentive to move on. Right now, a quest from one trader is functionally no different than a quest from another trader, so there is little incentive to relocate. I find in the vast majority of my games I stay in the same one or two towns until I'm up to tier 6 quests. If POIs didn't reset and you started using up the available POIs then it would start making sense to move on to another trader who had a fresh set of POIs.

I realize this is not going to happen, and its just hypothetical thinking, but I believe it would be a better game that way.
 
But even going to a different trader isn't the same as exploring. The game doesn't offer any reason to explore because loot can be found anywhere. There aren't hidden chests that contain stuff you can't find anywhere else. There aren't unique map features that you won't see other places. Other than location, it is really the same anywhere on the map. Whether or not quests reset POI, that wouldn't change people actually exploring.

That is true. It wasn't always like that.... There used to be very good reasons to find and loot book stores, hardware stores, gun stores. While those POIs still have more chances to find specific loot, you can just as easily find books, tools, and weapons anywhere.
 
Remember those days fighting in the wasteland with nothing but a toilet pistol and a turd in your backpack?
Or making your last stand on top of a parking garage, getting eaten, running back to get your bag, and getting eaten three more times?
Or rounding a corner, running straight into a direwolf, and screaming your head off and maybe needing a underware change?


That was survival. That was chaos. That was fun.


Now, all that’s gone. I can’t even step into a new biome without either turning off features or finishing a checklist just to unlock access.
The sense of adventure and danger has been replaced by ticking boxes.

It isn't gone. You act like it is this deplorable thing to have to turn off a feature. If biome hazards are what you hate then turn them off. It doesn't turn off all of of 2.0. By simply toggling one single button in the option menu you can go stand on top of your parking garage in the wasteland on day one and suffer zero radiation and never have to earn a badge. But you will still have every single other feature in the game.

Please tell me what aspect of the game you would miss out on that you desire to play but can't if you turn of the biome progression.

And here is the best part. You could play one run with biome progression enabled and then do another run with it disabled and have it both ways.

There’s so much more that could have been done instead of clearing out building after building.
  • Rescue missions for refugees
  • Stealing something risky from an enemy
  • Fixing up a building so an NPC can move in
  • Restoring a power plant to bring the grid back online
  • Repairing the water system to help a town survive
But we don’t get any of that. After nearly 13 years of development , one of all-time favorite game still has no endgame.
Bandits? They’ve been “coming soon” since late 2017—first promised for Alpha 17, teased again for Alpha 21 in 2021, and now delayed to at least Q2 2025.
Those sound like fun features but none of those have ever existed in the game so they aren't lost features. They are just unrealized pimp dreams that you believe shouldn't be THAT hard to incorporate into the game.

100% respawn, It hurts exploration. Without it, you’d eventually use up the close-by POIs, forcing you to venture further, take risks, and really explore. But as it stands, I can just go to a POI, loot it, reset it, loot it again, and cash in my quest reward. It’s fast, it’s efficient, and it’s totally predictable.

The game has sandbox elements. There will always be things you CAN do but don't HAVE to do. I personally never double dip on POIs. It's just a choice I made and I don't do it. So for me it doesn't matter if they removed that ability or not. But the players who love double dipping would lose their gameplay. So what's best? Restrict gameplay to prevent double dipping? (I can imagine those caustic forum threads incoming) or just allow players to do as they wish and if they discover that double dipping results in a feeling of loss of exploration and too much abundance of loot in a survival game, maybe those players will make the same choice I did and be happier.

Why does endgame loot and the big cities have to be gated behind the wasteland? Why not have cities and towns of all sizes, scattered everywhere?

Why can’t a Dishong Tower pop up in the forest, daring me to try it at level 5? Let me bleed, let me fail, let me suffer and die and—eventually when I win ragged bleeding with no bandages or medkits, infected, broken bones, Standing on the roof. The sun coming up, wind in my blood soak hair, the fun the joy is immense and liberating.

But that’s not the design anymore. Now, it’s “play our way, or else.”
Even if I turn off biome progression, cities and loot are still tied to specific biomes, so real agency is gone.

But you just said you relish those memories of traipsing into the wasteland on day one with a turd in your pocket. If you turn off the biome hazards then it doesn't matter which biome buildings are in. You can go anywhere you want and have those big buildings at level 5.

Now some may ask that if someone is just going to turn off the option then why was it developed in the first place? And the answer to that is a resounding, "Because not everyone is you". While I'm definitely up for a more involved and thematically pleasing way to overcome the biome hazards, I can't any longer accept the biomes without their hazards. It would feel like enabling creative mode or something. So I won't be toggling them off even if you do. And for every 1 person who does toggle them off there will be anywhere from 0.1 to 10.0 people who will keep them on and so the optional feature is worth having.
In the small T1 towns you end running into buildings that you have just cleared and have to wait or loot the same building like 4 times in two days. Since all of you want to get the next trader unlocked you have to do 50 Quests in a T1 town and this has happened to us on multi times, now that dont even play anymore at all.

That isn't the case. It was the case very briefly but it was quickly altered due to community feedback. When you share quests, everyone in your party earns the reputation points so you do not in fact have to do 50 quests just to get past T1. You only have to do 10 at default whether they are your own or an ally's. You can even toggle that number down or up to make the reputation progression slower or faster.
 
Its not really about doing the same POI, its about having an incentive to move on. Right now, a quest from one trader is functionally no different than a quest from another trader, so there is little incentive to relocate. I find in the vast majority of my games I stay in the same one or two towns until I'm up to tier 6 quests. If POIs didn't reset and you started using up the available POIs then it would start making sense to move on to another trader who had a fresh set of POIs.

I realize this is not going to happen, and its just hypothetical thinking, but I believe it would be a better game that way.
This won't ever happen, though. Not in the way you are thinking. Due to how towns are generated, you will have the same POI in multiple towns. In most cases, you are going to see the same POI in quests even if it required you to go to another town. And they can't just prevent it entirely or you might not have enough different POI of a given tier for the higher tiers. I've had maps from RWG that only had only 3 tiers 5 POI, which would mean I couldn't complete tier 5 without doing the same POI more than once. That doesn't happen often, and as they add more POI, it should happen less, but you can't entirely prevent it because RNG will make a situation where you can't finish your tiers.

You aren't going to have an incentive to move on in order to get more POI just because they change questing to not repeat. If you care about different POI, you already have that incentive to move on once you have seen everything in your current town, regardless of quests. If you don't really care about that, then it isn't an incentive in the first place.

Exploration doesn't happen just because they change questing or change town size or change biomes. If they want people to explore, they need to add unique things that make exploring worthwhile. It can be unique hidden loot that is useful, or at least so rare to find that people look just to brag about finding it. It can be really unique terrain features that are rare to see. It can be story or plot that gets you to explore a new location in a way that is interesting and not grindy. Or something else.

Look at a typical RPG. I'll go through all areas of the map to clear the "fog of war" on the map. I don't do that in this game for a simple reason ... It is just a square map and it would take forever to clear everything. Also, unlike an RPG that might have unique things to loot or just very limited loot that makes searching for it worthwhile, this game has so much loot and everything is common that there isn't any need.

This game just will never be a game where exploration is at all worthwhile. The closest you will get are hand created maps that are designed specifically to have unique features and hidden things to find.
 
People say traders are ruining the game, but they don't ruin the game if you don't use them. And if people are using them, then that's their choice. If they like that, then there's nothing wrong with it.
If not using traders also got rid of dungeon-style POIs, I'd never use another trader again. I was so excited for the dungeon style POIs when A17 came out, then I did like 3 of them, and I was already bored.
 
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