theFlu
Hunter
Yeah, no. Getting paid to spout nonsense is another different beast ..You haven't seen one of my work emails I guess
You've Stripped the Soul Out of 7 Days to Die
- Thread starter Annihilatorza
- Start date
I thought his post was coherent and succinct. It was laid out in a way that wasn't a wall of text. Just because he used some AI is largely irrelevant. Either you resonate and sympathize with the post or you don't. While I don't agree on some of the points I can understand the frustrations.
The traders and quests increased the challenge as they have made POIs more annoying to just break through a window for a quick loot. I can understand the immersion break but I am not sure how to properly balance doing quests and just scavenging.
The skill and magazine system was added because people could go straight down one line and become OP in the first week. The skill books provided a slow drip of content to be learned for all the various fields instead of just rushing one path ignoring the others. I think learning new skills from a magazine you read is fine and makes some sense when you think about it.
Hopefully they re-add temperature and remove hard constraints on biome progression for a more soft progression. I.E. You can go to whatever zone you want and play but it would be considerably more difficult due to the biome itself. This can be accomplished by the old system of needing more water or more food as an example from old. You could spend some time in the biome but you would need to compensate with a considerable amount more time fending off the elements. So you could rush to the snow biome but your challenge would be staving off freezing (needing fire) and starving (needing food). You can tweak the values as you see fit but the idea is that unless you want a more miserable experience then go down the prescribed path for playing otherwise, while you can go to any zone it will be very taxing to survive there but you could do it.
I think a lot of people, that are not coping, agree that the badge system and forced progression isn't implemented well.
The traders and quests increased the challenge as they have made POIs more annoying to just break through a window for a quick loot. I can understand the immersion break but I am not sure how to properly balance doing quests and just scavenging.
The skill and magazine system was added because people could go straight down one line and become OP in the first week. The skill books provided a slow drip of content to be learned for all the various fields instead of just rushing one path ignoring the others. I think learning new skills from a magazine you read is fine and makes some sense when you think about it.
Hopefully they re-add temperature and remove hard constraints on biome progression for a more soft progression. I.E. You can go to whatever zone you want and play but it would be considerably more difficult due to the biome itself. This can be accomplished by the old system of needing more water or more food as an example from old. You could spend some time in the biome but you would need to compensate with a considerable amount more time fending off the elements. So you could rush to the snow biome but your challenge would be staving off freezing (needing fire) and starving (needing food). You can tweak the values as you see fit but the idea is that unless you want a more miserable experience then go down the prescribed path for playing otherwise, while you can go to any zone it will be very taxing to survive there but you could do it.
I think a lot of people, that are not coping, agree that the badge system and forced progression isn't implemented well.
Adam the Waster
Hunter
Can you show me how to list like this?
Attachments
SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
Adam the Waster
Hunter
That is just a table. The interface here has that option.
| Well thank you |
Annihilatorza
Scavenger
Atleast this post helped you with that lol.
Javabean867
Survivor
Here is a crazy idea. use creative menu and give yourself the magazines you think are appropriate for your level. That way you can craft the level of mining tool you think is appropriate.
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the other option is to just use creative menu and give yourself a ton of dirty water. It was so easy to do so early in the game, people might as well just do that from time to time.
Annihilatorza
Scavenger
What is the point of cheating?
Riamus
Hunter
Filling hundreds of jars in a few seconds might as well be cheating.
EvilPolygons
Scavenger
You've obviously never played with any of the bucket mods. It takes actual work and time to manually fill the buckets and boil the water.
It's exactly what you would have to do in reality -- trek down to the pond, scoop some water, boil it for 4 minutes on the fire back at camp. It's literally a one-to-one simulation. How is it "cheating" if it's a simulation of the real thing?
Riamus
Hunter
The response is regarding vanilla, not mods. Obviously you can make a mod that would be fine. Obviously they could make some alternate method for gathering water in vanilla. However, most people continue not to ask for a better way to get water, but to have empty jars back. And that is what I was responding to. You have options and the response to one option given by someone else was that it was cheating. I was pointing out that isn't jars could also be considered cheating even if that was how they originally made the game.
Roland
Community Moderator
That is not the pattern I follow and every time I restart I choose a different attribute to focus on which give me very different feeling runs. You didn't have any bullet points for starting a farm, starting a mine, or starting a base. I don't do the exact same base design every time either. I do trader quests among other activities. I don't search for magazines. I explore a variety of POIs and find magazines as I play which is very different than running around searching for magazines. The loop you describe is only one of many possible loops and players have the freedom to choose any of them. The only thing that would cause the game to feel linear and restricted to one single path is if you are trying to min/max the progression and feel that there is only one best most efficient path that must be followed. Day 30 is pretty fast. I'm still progressing on day 60 usually. There is no one competing against me to win the progression race so I don't feel the need to sprint through it all. Why do you try to get it all done by day 30?
Agreed. Many features have been removed and were not left in and fixed. I have fond memories of many of them. Some I don't miss and others I was glad they were removed. The key is that I was expecting such things to happen because that is normal for any project in development. I disagree that they destroyed elements of survival. Farm plots for example. Sure, you can't just place crops anywhere but you can place farm plots anywhere and then place crops in them. It really is no difference to survival and is just an aesthetic cosmetic difference. That's how I feel about most of your list. You don't like what replaced them but they do have basically the same impact on survival that the originals did. Feral sense is even more of a threat than smell was.
No. This is abjectly false. I am the proof simply by playing the game more than one time through because I play the game differently almost every time I play-- at least differently from the most recent playthrough. Every activity can be done at a minimal acceptable level without spending any points or reading a single magazine. You have my sympathy that you can only think of one single way to play the game. There are more options and things to do now than ever existed before. If there is at least one other person who plays the game in a variety of ways that is more proof of how false your claim is. In fact, there are many people who figure out various game loops and don't play every single game exactly the same.
Even if what you claimed were true that people can't be miners or farmers or base-bound farmers or non-combat builders without first going into town for quests and magazine runs, according to you that would all be completely over by Day 30. Someone could then play to Day 100 just being a miner, farmer, crafter, or builder without interruption. That's 70% of the game just being them and only 30% of the game doing prescribed tasks. But I'm betting that if Day 30 marks the day of completing everything that someone who just wants to mine could get their mining stats and tools progressed to a satisfactory level by Day 10. So now that's 90% of the game being them and only 10% prepping to be them.
Survival is simply one of many genres of the game. Sandbox is another genre and it because of the sandbox that vending machines have food and drinks for those who want to play that way. If you want to play the game more survival then ignore the vending machines. That's the sandbox nature of the game--player freedom to choose how they obtain their sustenance. I like to go out and hunt and craft dew collectors and then reap the rewards of my efforts. Just because the vending machines exist doesn't mean I must use them.
Let me ask you how planning for wetness was any more survivalistic than planning for the biome hazards or for storms? If I remember correctly it was simply waiting to dry off before going into the snow biome. That was the full extent of prepping and planning for wetness. Compare that to what you need to do plan and prep for the biome hazards and storms and there's no contest. Wetness loses.
If you don't enjoy quests then why are you doing them until you reach Tier 5 and why are you spamming them so hard as to be finished by Day 30? Nothing in the game requires that you play this way. It is simply your choice and whether it is your refusal or inability to play the game differently on subsequent play-throughs doesn't mean that the rest of us are sitting around with nothing to do on Day 30.
You can plant seeds wherever you place a plot and you can place a plot anywhere--even on fertile soil. How does that layer of wood between the fertile soil in the ground and the fertile soil in the box destroy the sandbox? The crops are in the same geographical location either way.
Someone who wants to roleplay as blacksmith might need to prep for it for a day or two max if they visit a few construction sites. Construction sites also have awesome stores of materials that a blacksmith roleplayer would LOVE gathering. You were all over wetness needing some prep and planning but blacksmith roleplayers don't get that love? Again, with 2 days max of prep time someone could spend the next 100 days forging to their heart's content.
Who doesn't wear what they want and who wears the same armor? 2.0 gives us the freedom to make our armor look like any other armor we own. How do stats outweigh style when you can have whatever stats you want with whatever look you want?
It's just perspective. I don't mind the loot caps because from my perspective I now see the wasteland as being worthwhile to go to because there will be loot there not available anywhere else. I understand that I used to be able to get any loot anwhere but that made the world samey and it didn't matter where you went since everything was available everywhere. Loot caps fix that and I don't feel antagonistic about them to begin with.
Think of biomes as "wetness" and the badges as "prepping and planning for wetness". Honestly if you liked wetness because of the planning and prepping needed for it I don't know what you have against biome hazards. The badges are just an icon. If it was a smoke mask or rad suit or cooling or warming inserts, they would be more thematically pleasing but the survival element would be the same. The badges in and of themselves don't make the gameplay more or less survival.
The badges represent the skills and survival you withstood to earn the badges. The badges signify that you can now play in the biome with better loot and they also signify that you use your skills to accomplish all the required tasks as well as survived the hazard until you overcame it.
The storms are much more than simple screen clutter. This tells me that you spent more time formatting your post than you did playing 2.0. You are just completely wrong about the storms. You said a few times they have no gameplay impact, they are just screen effects, they just make things blurry. No. You're completely wrong. You must have read something inaccurate because you certainly haven't played in a storm firsthand.
I play this game largely like I did pre-Traders. I mix in some quests and I enjoy doing them especially when I get to the Tier 4 quests. But I also build, farm, mine, etc. I recognize that this game is not a pure survival game and has a mix of several genres. It doesn't make me mad that some survival elements are less hardcore. I know there are mods that can turn the game into a re-emphasis on survival gameplay. The thing is that so many of your complaints could be solved today by you without any change to the game. Just stop playing it the same way every single time. If you need help thinking of how to play a different way that doesn't lead to maxing out by day 30 I'd be glad to give you some tips.
EvilPolygons
Scavenger
Okay, well, I think we both agree on the empty jars thing. I've mentioned before that I never liked the endless supply of empty jars. Those made the game too easy and the clutter was aggravating. But I still think that it was absurdly lazy of the devs to totally remove something as basic and sensible as environmental water gathering, when they could have simply removed the jars. Scooping water out of a pond and boiling it is something that everyone expects from any kind of survival game. TFP basically threw the baby out with the bath water. Or in this case, they threw the pond water out with the bottles.
In the end, they didn't even manage their stated goal (making water scarce in the early game) because POIs are still full of murky water as loot. And after all that, they left the water purifier helmet mod in the game!
So what was even the point?I would rather they had ditched the jars, and kept water gathering, while increasing the amount of water needed for certain -- not all -- crafting activities. Farming, for example; having to manually water farm blocks might be a tad too much micromanagement for the average gamer, but requiring lots of water to initially craft farm blocks would have been an excellent water "sink."
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Javabean867
Survivor
It's not cheating. Simply put, you don't like aspect x. You can either play a different version of the game that doesn't have aspect x(if you are on pc) or you can use creative menu to work around aspect x. Or you can mod the game, which is paramount to cheating.
You stated you dipped your tie into making a mod, and didn't like it. You obviously don't want to or can't play previous versions. So get creative.
You need some restraint though. You could drop Y amount of resources and spawn in an equivalent amount of mags. You could say, every 5 levels gives me 20 mags. That wouldn't be too fast. Do what you want to do, but it sounds to me that this version of the game is making you miserable
EvilPolygons
Scavenger
Mods that make the game harder, more challenging, and increase micromanagement are literally the opposite of cheating.
InfiniteWarrior
Refugee
It has no coherent artistic vision, if it ever did. That's for sure, imo. At the same time, I can't agree a game that relies on computer and AI generated everything ever had a soul to begin with. When I hopped back in with A21, it seemed to have at least its own flavor, namely old school and countrified, but doesn't even have that anymore, imo, especially with the addition of fantasy elements like Frostclaw and Desert Spitter.
Again, I'll just blame Bethesda's influence and be done with it. It's difficult to play a Bethesda game these days and ascertain which franchise you're actually playing: Fallout or Elder Scrolls. Same here. There are so many elements borrowed and modified from other games, 7DTD doesn't particularly stand out from the crowd.
Again, I'll just blame Bethesda's influence and be done with it. It's difficult to play a Bethesda game these days and ascertain which franchise you're actually playing: Fallout or Elder Scrolls. Same here. There are so many elements borrowed and modified from other games, 7DTD doesn't particularly stand out from the crowd.
Roland
Community Moderator
What it comes down to for many (and possibly the OP) is that about 5-6 years ago the devs:
1) changed the method of progression from learn by doing to skillpoint shopping,
2) removed some beloved mechanics like weapon parts and combining,
3) overhauled the zombie AI/pathing, and
4) added many more of the dungeon POIs replacing many of the original non-dungeon POIs in the game and introduced sleepers.
It was a major shift in the direction of the game. It was the update from Alpha 16 to Alpha 17 and for those who hated that Alpha 17 update, nothing has been good enough since. Because every update since A17 has built upon that design and moved the game farther away from their A16 ideal, all of the new content is automatically poisoned.
Unless TFP includes a return to the A16 design model along with whatever else they do, the people who are pining for A16 won't be happy. A16 was the soul and heart of the game in their view while A17 and beyond has been soulless and uninspired garbage design. They can't help but want to demonize new content since it goes along with post A16 designs. The OP talks about survival features from A16 as though they are somehow amazingly superior to the survival features we have now in 2.0 when in fact there isn't much functional difference between them. They criticize storms that make you (allegedly) sit and wait but laud wetness that made you....sit and wait. If these same storms as they are had been part of A16 then they too would have been remembered with fondness and nostalgia.
A16 to A17 was the major schism of the development journey. Some people will never get over it and never stop expressing their bitterness over the decisions that were made.
theFlu
Hunter
A23 is the first time I've built a series of wooden boxes, each 10 seconds of sprinting apart, from a trader to my base in the next town. Can't remember doing that to avoid "wetness". I do remember looting for clothes to keep warm and dry. Only one of these things makes sense.
