PC Well ... that escalated quickly!
- Thread starter Jenshae
- Start date
ZombieSurvivor
Banned
Thanks but the xml is very easy to understand and since it seems like most are wrong about gamestage I'm guessing most do not check XML. Thanks anyways.
P.S. not sure why you provided a link when you quoted my post that already had the exact formula in it.
I gave the answer...why would you provide me with a link as if my answer is incorrect? I'm a little confused
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?136068-Well-that-escalated-quickly!&p=1070172&viewfull=1#post1070172
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ZombieSurvivor
Banned
I cheated this in, to try and fight the next horde because the only other option was to drive all night and I wanted to shoot them instead.
It sounds like the core will be breached, even with the infinite ramp and blade traps to mince them as they fall.
you cheated....sad Well to bad you can no longer brag or feel good about defeating a horde since the base is now a cheated one and not based on a players skill. *moment of silence* Make us proud in the next game and no cheating. Would like to see a follow up about all this the next time you make a base. I want to see you grow and become better at the game and not resort to cheating.
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Ghostlight
New member
Because you made this post in this thread:Thanks but the xml is very easy to understand and since it seems like most are wrong about gamestage I'm guessing most do not check XML. Thanks anyways.
P.S. not sure why you provided a link when you quoted my post that already had the exact formula in it.
I gave the answer...why would you provide me with a link as if my answer is incorrect? I'm a little confused
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?136068-Well-that-escalated-quickly!&p=1070172&viewfull=1#post1070172
So I assumed you didn't understand that server day is part of it. What did you want me to think? They do not count actual days each player has been on the server. They just use the (current server day - 2 x deaths), and then cap the result by your level to keep it simple.
Also your calculation for multiplayer scaling is incorrect and misleading. All you did was re-post the huge comment block at the start of gamestage.xml, which as we have been discussing for months in such threads, has been left outdated and is incorrect. The link to my thread corrects it all for you.
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ZombieSurvivor
Banned
Not according to the XML or the way I've always understood it to work. Can you please point out exactly what is wrong. I did skim over what you posted and seen most of it was correct but I must have skimmed over the parts that conflict with whats in the XML.
EDIT: "hey just use the (current server day - 2 x deaths)" proof please because ive never known it to work this way.
P.S. Let me correct you. "lso your calculation for multiplayer scaling" I do not do math so I would never post My math. not sure what u r talking about. GO BACK AND READ
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Ghostlight
New member
Mainly the weights for multiplayer scaling.
ZombieSurvivor
Banned
then the xml is misleading not I. Again I cannot do math, I only posted a copy and paste of the xml.
Looking at that base at day 29 I would say you had only one player part-time building and basically fell seriously behind on upgrading regularily. I think I had as much concrete blocks in my SP-game on day 29 as you in my base and had a lot more barbed wire and traps. The missing barbed wire might be a reason why your repair bill was maybe too high and left you not enough for upgrading. In our 4-player co-op game (which is somewhere between day 35 and 42 now) we have a full concrete/part steel base at the size of the base you pulled in per creative build.Day 29 after the 4th horde.
Day 36 after the 5th horde.
We went from a pretty regular horde on Day 28, with some cops to 90% radioactives + cops + demolition zombies on Day 35.
Hordes 1, 2, 3 and 4 all progressed in increasing difficulty, such that we could build, improve and cope with what was coming.
I don't know what triggered such a huge leap in horde difficulty but there is no way that we could have prepared for that without using creative mode, cheats and or server mods.
We were role focused, I have some agility for hunting, loads of intelligence for crafting.
My friend is strength with mining and does the upgrading.
Another of us does houses, looting and has skills to talk with traders.
We all have 4-5/5 skills in looting.
We hadn't even unlocked electricity yet. Loot tables were against us.
We have the odd QL6 item that we found, some blues but mostly we are on yellows and greens. Mixed armour, different weapons to split out the ammo types.
We simply can't find enough food, produce enough resources, defend the base from screamers and upgrade fast enough to build against such a jump in difficulty.
As a result, I will be waiting with the /killall command to see what happens in the next horde and I have resorted to cheating the base back in to what it was at least.
I didn't mention this to boast, it just means you probably missed some of the opportunities the game provides. For example:
* What does "All have 4-5/5 skills in looting" mean? If it means you all have 4 or 5 in lucky looter (and 5 or 7 in perception) you seriously wasted a lot of points in perception. Literally wasted because lucky looter seems to be shared by a group after a recent patch (if you quest/loot together). But even if not, Lucky Looter might be a good perk for one person to find some high-quality stuff early, but long-term you'll loose because you won't get much improvement out of finding two marksman rifles of quality 5 instead of one (as an example).
* Did one of you get one point in "livinig of the land" and built a garden? You should have at least 30 farm plots by now. 30 is still not enough for feeding you completely but the farm should be growing continuously and take over a larger percentage of your diet day by day. You should also know the location of 2 food dispenser machines at traders and 2 machines in the nearest town. Buying canned food there daily could alone provide you with enough to feed you in the worst case (and you should find a lot of canned food in loot as well). I don't think hunting alone is sufficient to feed you but the meat provides one important ingredient to complement the farming.
* When you loot POIs, do you also loot all those cement- and cobblestone-piles? Not necessarily in every POI, but about one-third of the quest POI's have a really stuffed section with those and they are a (maybe OP) source for building materials.
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ZombieSurvivor
Banned
So multiplayer does not use the same formula as single player?
Jenshae
New member
At this point we have very few options.
1) Drive on motorbikes for the next 2-3 hordes while we build a base.
2) Cheat.
I chose 2), in order to test if it is possible to even beat the horde. Based on that if it is not possible, either:
a) Remove demolishers.
b) /killall when there is more than one.
c) Quit.
If it is possible, keep building a proper base without cheating. Using the cheat base until that one is complete.
I would rather know now, what is possible and what works or does not work than spend weeks fighting against utter futility.
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About gamestage calculation: I don't know who is right here. But an easy way to find out is: Log into an open server with A18 at default difficulty you never were before but was running at least a few days already and note your gamestage. Then make sure you get a level before the first day is over. If your gamestage rises by 1 then your own time on the server is used. If it rises by 2 then server days are used.
ZombieSurvivor
Banned
Yeah I've already planned to test it the exact way you said later today. Im going to host a server log in, log out log in with another account force the server to proceed by like 30 days. log back in with my original account...leaving out a few more detaisl but i'll be testing this later to see what is truth.
ZombieSurvivor
Banned
I cheat early on by just going up in a poi the first couple of blood moons, if my horde base in not up and running, and just hide out when playing on my dedicated server. long term, Ill have a base up and running. So i feel yah
Ghostlight
New member
Correct. XML comment says starting weight for MP is 1.7 and diminishing return is -0.22. This is wrong, as you can see right below the comment. It is 1.0 and -0.2. Thank god because those old numbers made MP absolutely devastating. We had gamestage 320 on day 28 with the old weights. You can imagine how that went.
The MP weights was the main thing I was correcting in your post btw, the days alive thing is meh, but I guess you can test. It came up in an old thread. I forget who said it, but the gist of it was it was simpler to use that single number for everyone and cap the result by player level than it was to try to remember it for every player on every server. Remember that accelerating the server day won't work as a test. The player(s) need to be alive on a server at the dawn of each day (if it works the old way on a per player basis). In general it won't matter except for players who join servers that at a day number that is considerably higher than their level.
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Jenshae
New member
So, I cheated in a base.
Then we fought it, Day 42
Me
Level: 54
Game Stage: 159
Friend
Level: 48
Game Stage: 153
Deduct the 4-5 levels we gainedthis night.
We beat the horde but it has two cheats:
1) Down the East and West side there are arrow slits that the zombies don't want to walk over.
2) On the South and North side there are "infinite bridges" where the zombies can't cross the steep slopes and keep climbing.
(I would have survived the night if my friend hadn't mistaken me for a zombie and shot me when I was out on the bridge trying to reload the turrets.)
Further, we made some game setting changes:
1) Blood Moon zombies only Jog (ferals still run at Nightmare speeds)
2) Zombie block damage was down to 50%
We barely made it through the night, as you can see from the second image, the bridge was nearing collapse and they would have started super bashing the core of the base after that.
At this point in our game progression, this game stage, unless from Day 1 we were building toward this exact base, knowing the cheats and developing this, I am not even sure we could have built it well enough to survive this horde.
I think the (horde <--> game stage) progression curve is too steep.
Then we fought it, Day 42
Me
Level: 54
Game Stage: 159
Friend
Level: 48
Game Stage: 153
Deduct the 4-5 levels we gainedthis night.
We beat the horde but it has two cheats:
1) Down the East and West side there are arrow slits that the zombies don't want to walk over.
2) On the South and North side there are "infinite bridges" where the zombies can't cross the steep slopes and keep climbing.
(I would have survived the night if my friend hadn't mistaken me for a zombie and shot me when I was out on the bridge trying to reload the turrets.)
Further, we made some game setting changes:
1) Blood Moon zombies only Jog (ferals still run at Nightmare speeds)
2) Zombie block damage was down to 50%
We barely made it through the night, as you can see from the second image, the bridge was nearing collapse and they would have started super bashing the core of the base after that.
At this point in our game progression, this game stage, unless from Day 1 we were building toward this exact base, knowing the cheats and developing this, I am not even sure we could have built it well enough to survive this horde.
I think the (horde <--> game stage) progression curve is too steep.
Just a note, Grumbul streams at level ... I forget. Game stage was up around 450ish iirc. The stream I saw, he had 28 unspent perk points and took out a blood moon horde with no traps, no turrets, just him and a tiny path-cheeser base, and made it look almost easy. There was definite skill involved in the headshotting (pretty much pure headshots, try to imagine how little ammo he used) and weapon selection, but getting the zeds to sit up pretty for a photo shoot sure helps.
Ghostlight
New member
Ahem.
Also GS 450 on Insane (where enemies are bullet sponges, headshot or not) and GS 450 on Normal (where 2 - 3 Pistol shots anywhere kill most zombies) are 2 very different things. What difficulty was this? Did he have a Rad Remover on his gun? Did he use AP Bullets?
Ghostlight
New member
Are you on 100% experience? I can't tell because you didn't say which difficulty this was on. Anyways, setting XP gain to anything higher than 100% is probably a recipe for disaster.
Here you go. I lucked into the bm part, this was my intro to this guy. The setup starts ~4h37m40s, I happened across the live stream a few minutes before that. See for yourself, I'm not good enough to judge his settings from this is but he sure as hell isn't one-shotting the heavy hitters. Rad bikers and soldiers I think he expects to take two scoped rifle headshots, the cops and demos he uses the m60 on and it takes ten-ish rounds.
And if that base doesn't qualify as both "tiny" and "path cheeser" then I don't know what would.
Ramethzer0
Well-known member
My trick for fighting demos on blood moon night.
Shoot at them from behind. When they arrive, it's usually my job to drop down from the base and run around in the thick of the horde shooting them in the back. The Magnum with AP rips them a new one.
Shoot at them from behind. When they arrive, it's usually my job to drop down from the base and run around in the thick of the horde shooting them in the back. The Magnum with AP rips them a new one.
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