ALEXZANDER
Scavenger
Yes - he and some others said that they dont like jars because they take up space and dont like to drop em!
Basicly making a mountain out of a mole hill as usual
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PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary
- Thread starter Crater Creator
- Start date
Basicly making a mountain out of a mole hill as usual
Riamus
Hunter
They simply offer zero value to me. Why waste my time with them if there isn't any need for them? I have no use for them and will just drop them every time I find them. Why would I bother letting them be in my game if that is what I do? At least with most other things, I'll use them on occasion or they are rare enough drops that they aren't really a problem. And as I said, I take everything I find in loot with a single button press without bothering looking through it. That means I then have to drop the jars every time they end up in my inventory. Just a waste of time for no reason. Others like them and wanted to whine about them being gone, so now they are back. Rather than posting over and over in dev streams about them like was being done by those who just had to have them back in the game, I'll just mod them out again. They could have easily done the same to add them back instead of complaining over and over about them (most complaints were from PC users who could do so before there even was a new console version), but they wanted to posting dozens of topics about it and spend tons of time going back and forth about how horrible it was that there weren't empty jars even though nothing else has empty containers. I'll just mod it and be done with it. I'll still respond if someone asks what I think and may occasionally comment on a topic related to it, but otherwise it'll just get modded and that will be the end.
Yeah, not sure how that becomes "swimming in them," but it still would be an infinite amount of jars. Would there be any challenge to having a small number of jars that you can just reuse over and over? Once you have more than what you'd need at any given time, any more just become extras that aren't needed. For drinking, you make a stack to use for drinking and then just refill them as you use them. No need for more jars than one stack per player. For crafting, you don't many either. More just means you can make more things at a time... instead of making 10 glue and then refilling water and making another 10 glue, you could make 100 glue if you had 100 jars. It's a convenience thing, but the jars are infinite once you have them. I think that's the balance issue he's talking about.
Besides, you know that you wouldn't only get only one per day. It would be more likely that if you're scavenging throughout the day that you'd end up with 10-20 in a day even if they are uncommon. They can't make them too rare or you might run into RNG making them not drop at all. The result of not making them too rare is that they'll drop regularly enough if you're doing a lot of looting. For people who do a lot of scavenging, they could have hundreds of jars in the first week. If you get them back after use, you're going to have so many that you'll never use them even if you make a ton of glue, which is what we had before. By limiting them to single use, it prevents that from being too big of a problem. But it also makes them have little actual value to anyone as well, which makes them not worth adding back into the game.
Old Crow
Hunter
Why not just have them stack smaller? Then players have to make decisions on whether or not they want so many stacks of glass jars taking up storage space.
Jost Amman
Hunter
I never said to replace anybody... where did you get that impression?
Don't we all have limits after all? Why should AI be considered limitless then?
In any case, as someone said in a separated topic, you need to have common sense when asking questions to the AI. Personally, I treat AI more like a very competent but slightly autistic person, where they can be extremely intelligent when set on specific tasks, but they lack the comprehension needed to understand the most basic and obvious things that we take for granted.
In my experience with Claude AI specifically, it has the capacity to suggest things beyond what you asked of it. So, in that regard, it seems indeed better than the free cookie cutter AI versions most people use, because they don't want/need to waste money.
I have an idea that will help make the balance in the game even better, let the weapon disappear from the player's inventory when more than 300 shots have been fired from it, and the vehicle disappears when it has traveled more than 50 kilometers, I am sure this change will please most players, and will improve the balance, forcing them to search for weapons and vehicles more often
P.S. Sarcasm
(reference to disappearing jars)
P.S. Sarcasm
(reference to disappearing jars)
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IzPrebuilt
Scavenger
This sounds like the kind of ragebait someone would make when trying to strawman survival enjoyers.
"Yeah my gun i spent 5 hours grinding magazines to unlock and craft disappeared 2 magazines after crafting it, le gritty realism, owned le RPG chuds"
Jost Amman
Hunter
I think most would not disagree on keeping jars, as long as someone provides a good balance alternative that does not involve significant changes to the game (like multi-step purification of water that involves several new recipes and even a new workstation).
If you keep jars and really wanted to limit it to 50 by day 50 then you would also need to remove any drinks from trader, vending machines and especially loot. Otherwise you would have a lot more empty jars than 1 per day. And I don't think that would be a good change, right?
Also depending on play style some people need more, some less water. As long as someone has less jars than his daily need, he needs to grind and reuse his jars once or twice (which I would consider boring busy work), once he has his daily need of jars he would be exactly in the same situation that we had in earlier alphas were every found jar is essentially useless and immediately dropped again.
Hey @Grandpa Minion in the comments on the X post, TFP agreed with you that 2.5 is a major update.
TFP social media manager
Also, they said "as big as any major update" if you want to get pedantic.
Jost Amman
Hunter
Roland
Community Moderator
It's more like make the bullet casings disappear after each shot and the gas cans disappear after filling the tank each time.
wait a minute.....
Grandpa Minion
Survivor
when it comes to most of the dislikes about jars my impression is that most of the people who dislike them are coming from solo players, but on multiplayer its a different game.
Teams are specialized breaking up dutys including , team chef, team builder, team looter, and so on...
making blackstrap coffee, drinks and everything else for a chef on a team ( more jars is a must )
Gamida
Hood Ornament
Yeah, I was going off of faatals comment of one jar a day. I know jars are a very sticky situation to balance if you want them to be reusable.
Am just hoping by time game is finished it will be straightened out one way or the other lol.
I also do realize that in no form should they be able to be made.
Right now just waiting like everyone else to test out 2.5
falloutcloud
Refugee
Not a fan of jars but they’re such a tiny part of the gameplay that it is not even a blip on my enjoyment of the game.
Space4Ace
Hunter
But, because or the changes in 2.5 for the dew collector, you will have to use jars, at least, in very early game.
From the 2.5 patch notes:
"The dew collector unlocks at Workstation Crafting level 16, is now crafted on the workbench, and additional resources are required for crafting."
Jost Amman
Hunter
Yeah, you're probably right on that one. But that's another can of worms to me... I've often said that the game should have TWO separate balancing rules, one for SP and one for MP.
Or, at least, some adjustment of the loot tables based on the current number of players.
Example: probability to find Murky Water in the container is 1% times <double the number of players>.
BAM! you don't miss water anymore in MP games! You're welcome.
Quagmire1428
Refugee
IMO re: Jars i really have no dog in this fight. Early game when jars were a thing i would end up with a million jars of water . . . and later on with dew collectors early game i end up with millions of jars of water. It's never felt like a major issues for me, and on my server we always play Multi where a need for water is generally greater. It is such a small thing and it baffles me how so many people get wrapped up in it so much. Personally, i look at all the other things happeneing and keep positive and just enjoy the journey of this games creation.
4sheetzngeegles
Hunter
I've often said that the game should have TWO separate balancing rules, one for SP and one for MP.
I agree with with you on this point. I had thought about it many times.
What are the main points of contention. Single player/Multiplayer,
Genre preference/Genre preference Player desire/TFP desire,
Default configuration/Modded configuration.
Now the added responsibility of obligation to PS - MS - and all the International
acronyms regulating game design. And the thought of cross platform game play.
The majority can be broken down into one word; "Configuration" how is configuration
controlled. The config folder. How is the game modded many times? Changing the
variables in the config folder. Where is the config folder located? In the default
folder hierarchy. How can it be controlled within a modded ideal and still support
console? The same way it is done now, XUI controls and windows.
Without having to go ape■■■■ adding a bunch of dropdowns selectors and sliders, why
can't multiple config folders be placed in the default directory structure?
SP/MP/etc. or if that naming convention ruffles feathers, Default/Extended/Extended2
etc.
So in the main menu you pick the drop down for which configuration you want to play
and the Xui control points to the associated named config folder. Jars go or jars stay,
but the jars argument can finally go away. So no "inconvenience" it is just "1" choice
to address a ##### of voices, and we can crack on.
The inconvenience of creating the alternate configurations would be once, Copy and
paste the default folder, open in editor change the variables, save. It would bypass the
need to use the Mods folder and 0_TFP_Harmony. That would be left in place for PC modders
to use. So international modding regulations, still intact, the jar jar thing put to rest.
People that don't mod don't feel compelled or cheated.
It's too bad that the honey station was added. I was going to suggest a while back, to
change the recipe for glue to be honey and bone instead of drinkJarBoiledWater and bone.
Why honey it's a natural resource, can be found around the playing field, it is sticky,
fits in with makeshift apocalyptic environment, it would give it multiple uses, and it
could be tiered, meaning boiled to glue creates multiple, or in a pinch honey and cloth
can make one duct tape in an emergency.
An old reference game Castle Wolfenstein.
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DED-EFIM
Refugee
Grandpa Minion
Survivor
The most important thing to remember is just like as in pvp vs pve i would say single player vs multiplayer is in the same boat,
so, when you guys and gals keep hounding TFP for changes that effect single player please keep in mind the effect that the change would have on multiplayer.