PC v1.x Developer Diary

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Old Crow said:
Torchlight 2 will give the full (yes, FULL) set bonus for not wearing the full set.
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Cool. I have that game but haven’t played it in years and never realized that. So there’s one.
 

After A22 releases there will still be just one. 

EDIT: So I was curious and looked up the Torchlight wiki and here's the lowdown. You get an armor set bonus by wearing at least two pieces of the collection and it doesn't matter which two pieces you wear. BUT...it isn't really the full bonus because each additional piece worn adds another benefit to the set bonus. This means that if you are wearing all 9 pieces of the Sentinal collection (for example) your set bonus is a lot more...full and robust and I don't think any player would be happy to just stop at 2 pieces satisfied that the full set bonus was theirs.

I was willing to be proven wrong and still am but when it comes down to it, even in Torchlight 2 you don't get all the benefits of the actual full set by only wearing some of the pieces. Not only that but you get no set bonus at all if you drop below the (admittedly simple) threshold of 2 pieces. 

So I must amend that after A22 releases there will still be zero games that allow players all the benefits of the full set if they are wearing fewer pieces than all of them. I don't deny that there will be partial bonuses.

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Roland said:
Cool. I have that game but haven’t played it in years and never realized that. So there’s one.
 

After A22 releases there will still be just one. 

EDIT: So I was curious and looked up the Torchlight wiki and here's the lowdown. You get an armor set bonus by wearing at least two pieces of the collection and it doesn't matter which two pieces you wear. BUT...it isn't really the full bonus because each additional piece worn adds another benefit to the set bonus. This means that if you are wearing all 9 pieces of the Sentinal collection (for example) your set bonus is a lot more...full and robust and I don't think any player would be happy to just stop at 2 pieces satisfied that the full set bonus was theirs.

I was willing to be proven wrong and still am but when it comes down to it, even in Torchlight 2 you don't get all the benefits of the actual full set by only wearing some of the pieces. Not only that but you get no set bonus at all if you drop below the (admittedly simple) threshold of 2 pieces. 

So I must amend that after A22 releases there will still be zero games that allow players all the benefits of the full set if they are wearing fewer pieces than all of them. I don't deny that there will be partial bonuses.

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View attachment 29977
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What you neglected to mention or show, is that Runemaster (one of your examples) is an 8 piece set, but only requires 3 pieces to be worn in order to achieve the full set bonus.

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Old Crow said:
What you neglected to mention or show, is that Runemaster (one of your examples) is an 8 piece set, but only requires 3 pieces to be worn in order to achieve the full set bonus.

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I see what you mean. Sorry, the wiki part that I read didn't give me all the info and I didn't know enough about the game to search for more. That was my bad for not fully researching it.

So it appears that each piece has a bonus that it grants and in addition, there is a set bonus once you have at least 3 pieces. I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus. But...I will point out that there still is a threshold and if you are a piece short of that threshold then you don't get the full bonus. In 7 Days to Die that threshold is going to be all the pieces. 

 
Roland said:
So it appears that each piece has a bonus that it grants and in addition, there is a set bonus once you have at least 3 pieces. I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus. But...I will point out that there still is a threshold and if you are a piece short of that threshold then you don't get the full bonus.
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Grim Dawn also has incremental set bonuses beginning at the 2nd item.

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 
Just because one or more games out there give a partial set bonus for a few items (and not the complete set) doesn't mean that TFP need to do the same thing with their armor sets.

Comparing the two games so far:

  • 7 Days to Die has 5 armor spots - Head, Chest, Arms, Legs, and Feet
  • Torchlight 2 has 10 spots - Helmets, Chest Armor, Shoulders, Gloves, Leggings, Boots, Shields, Belts, Necklaces, Rings

Throw in the fact that Torchlight 2 has a wide variety of sets ranging from unique and rare to common items with tiers.  The common items don't contribute to the set bonuses themselves.  It is very complex system that they have setup for armor pieces which is based on the type of the game which is to consistently upgrade your gear to push your numbers higher.

Since 7 days to die looks like it's armor system is going to be simpler than Torchlight's system is, having all the items equipped to get a set bonus seems fair.  You will get the same bonus if you have a lower quality T1 boot compared to the Q6 boot.  And you only have to obtain 5 pieces (compared to 10 if Torchlight 2 had the same requirement).

In addition, 7 days to die has a higher chance that you can complete the entire set compared to Torchlight 2.  Even if you can't find the item in loot or at the trader, you can also craft the missing pieces of the set to complete it.

If you don't want to wear that part of the armor set because you don't like flip flops or how it looks, then you decided that it is better for how your characters appears in game rather than any full set bonus you might get if you equipped all of the items.  I think choices like that are fine in the game.

 
Roland said:
So it appears that each piece has a bonus that it grants and in addition, there is a set bonus once you have at least 3 pieces. I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus. But...I will point out that there still is a threshold and if you are a piece short of that threshold then you don't get the full bonus. In 7 Days to Die that threshold is going to be all the pieces. 
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Over the years there have been many action RPGs that do set item bonuses in "increments."  Some sets have bonuses at 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 pieces depending on the game.  The system has pros and cons of course but "incremented" set bonus have been around for a long time in the action rpg genre.

- Diablo 2-3

- Sacred 2
- Titan Quest

- Torchlight 2
- Grim Dawn

- Last Epoch

Other rpg games like World of Warcraft have also used incremented set bonuses.

 
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irongamer said:
Over the years there have been many action RPGs that do set item bonuses in "increments."  Some sets have bonuses at 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 pieces depending on the game.  The system has pros and cons of course but "incremented" set bonus have been around for a long time in the action rpg genre.

- Diablo 2-3

- Sacred 2
- Titan Quest

- Torchlight 2
- Grim Dawn

- Last Epoch

Other rpg games like World of Warcraft have also used incremented set bonuses.
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I think you missed what was being said.  No one said there weren't *partial* set bonuses in games.  Many games have that.  What was said was that you did not get the *full* set bonus without having the full set equipped.  You might get a partial bonus, depending on the game, but not the full bonus.  Now, it was said Torchlight allows the full bonus without the full set.  There may even be a few others.  And, most likely, any that do give the full set bonus without the full set are games like Torchlight or Diablo that have an extremely large number of items you can find, making it extremely difficult to actually complete the set and so they allow you to get the bonus without having the full set.  That is a very different kind of game than this one, where you aren't likely to have any difficulty completing whatever set you want.  So it makes sense to only give the full set bonus to you if you're using the full set.

 
Riamus said:
I think you missed what was being said.  No one said there weren't *partial* set bonuses in games.  Many games have that.  What was said was that you did not get the *full* set bonus without having the full set equipped.  You might get a partial bonus, depending on the game, but not the full bonus.  Now, it was said Torchlight allows the full bonus without the full set.  There may even be a few others.  And, most likely, any that do give the full set bonus without the full set are games like Torchlight or Diablo that have an extremely large number of items you can find, making it extremely difficult to actually complete the set and so they allow you to get the bonus without having the full set.  That is a very different kind of game than this one, where you aren't likely to have any difficulty completing whatever set you want.  So it makes sense to only give the full set bonus to you if you're using the full set.
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I was responding to this quote, "I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus." So there was some question about that.  I was just mentioning there are good number of games in the past/present that do.  I really don't care how Fun Pimps implement it.

 
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irongamer said:
I was responding to this quote, "I concede that there is at least one game that does not require you to get all the pieces of an armor collection for the set bonus." So there was some question about that.  I was just mentioning there are good number of games in the past/present that do.  I really don't care how Fun Pimps implement it.
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That was part of a much longer conversation and was probably not as clear in intent if you didn't see the rest of the conversation.  But it wasn't a statement that partial set bonuses weren't a thing.  It just missed one word... "full" before set bonus at the end of the sentence just because it was a continuing conversation and those involved in the conversation knew what they were referring to.

 
Good to know. Thanks all!

7 Days is unlikely to do an incremental set bonus. The devs will follow the same model they use for the book sets. Each piece will grant a specific bonus and if you wear the entire set you will get a set bonus. 
 

It’s interesting to learn about different designs, though. 

 
irongamer said:
Over the years there have been many action RPGs that do set item bonuses in "increments."  Some sets have bonuses at 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 pieces depending on the game.  The system has pros and cons of course but "incremented" set bonus have been around for a long time in the action rpg genre.

- Diablo 2-3

- Sacred 2
- Titan Quest

- Torchlight 2
- Grim Dawn

- Last Epoch

Other rpg games like World of Warcraft have also used incremented set bonuses.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I was wrong. :)

A truer statement to my point would be that all games have a threshold at which a full set bonus triggers and until you hit and remain at or above that threshold you only get a partial bonus or no bonus at all depending on the design. Wanting to dip below the threshold but still keep the bonus is unrealistic of a player. I suppose TFP could grant the set bonus if you have at least 4 of the 5 pieces just to allow for different footwear but I doubt they will do this. I think it will follow suit with the existing book. @Matt115's request to allow the set bonus without the flipflops isn't that crazy of a request after all as such a thing is an existing design after all.

But whatever the threshold turns out to be I don't believe it is a fair criticism to say that the devs are forcing a player to wear something the player doesn't want to wear but "must" wear for whatever bonus it provides. They shouldn't get the bonus if they don't meet the requirements.

 
XCOUNTRY said:
I know there’s no set bonus if I don’t wear the flip flops, but what if I only wear the flip flops?
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Some runners would disagree, but I could see there being a movement penalty for not wearing any shoes. I'm not a fan of crossing gravel in bare feet.

 
Roland said:
Yeah, I was wrong. :)

A truer statement to my point would be that all games have a threshold at which a full set bonus triggers and until you hit and remain at or above that threshold you only get a partial bonus or no bonus at all depending on the design. Wanting to dip below the threshold but still keep the bonus is unrealistic of a player. I suppose TFP could grant the set bonus if you have at least 4 of the 5 pieces just to allow for different footwear but I doubt they will do this. I think it will follow suit with the existing book. @Matt115's request to allow the set bonus without the flipflops isn't that crazy of a request after all as such a thing is an existing design after all.

But whatever the threshold turns out to be I don't believe it is a fair criticism to say that the devs are forcing a player to wear something the player doesn't want to wear but "must" wear for whatever bonus it provides. They shouldn't get the bonus if they don't meet the requirements.
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Maybe i sounded too... hard but it's caused by my bad experiences about shoes and such shoes espectialy. So sorry if sounded rude.  Well even such redesing or  just few visual styles ( many games offer few visual variants of this same item) would be solving problem this at least for me.

Yet i don't agree yet about "not being forced". Okay - I will give Titan Fall example ( anniversay edition) : if you have few parts of set it was usualy much more effective to wear it that using items that are not part of set. which have sense - yet bonuses were so high that you were pretty forced to hunt for specific part for specific build unless you wanted to grind a lot for skills. So if bonuses from sets are realy high then you can be forced by RNG ( which is partialy Devs decisions yet it can't be 100% balanced). You want to make tank build? sorry you lack of one part of set so lack of bonuses making it useless so you need stick with this "ranger" set because 50% to dmg to bow from sneak and 30% damage and 20% speed for spears is much powerful. So : let's say 2, 4, 5 (while max is 6 parts) should be consider. Because hunting for 1 part is annoying.  Okay someone can say " it's post apo so looking for one thing would be hard" then such realism argument would have sense only for specific clothes like HAZMAT or Sapper outfit because 99,99% clothes don''t need to be complete to provide "something". So 7DTD is closer here to terraria or titan fall that dayz 

 
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