PC Things TFP removed ... and you wish they hadn't

[RipClaw]

I find the game much better. Many here complain about a myriad of things - most notably LBD going away - but overall it has certainly improved a lot IMHO.

In any case, the game has shifted more in the direction of combat.

Because of the loss of LBD you have to deal with perks and because quality no longer determines the damage of a weapon you have to deal with mods. Players who just play the game but don't inform themselves comprehensively have a problem.

I see this again and again with people who have been playing the game for several alphas. They assume that they know how something works but then they have to realize that everything has changed.

 

[PoppaTot]

Wow... I'm really surprised the game has changed this much. I'm just a lowly console player who has been enjoying this game for a year or so now but decided to come check out the forums to see what all has changed since the console port probably won't be updated for a long time, if ever at all. It sounds like everything that I know to be 7D2D is pretty much nonexistent at this point on PC.
So my serious question, is it still fun? I'm on Day 57, having set up a fortified concrete bunker near a gas station in Navezgane near the northern edge of the forest where it just barely butts up against the frozen/winter biome area. My days are spent out in the forest on my minibike running over game animals for meat to bring back for meat stew, while my nights are spent as of late down in my ever expanding mine repeatedly breaking and fixing my auger for more iron and lead. I'm really enjoying the game but a few things mentioned in this thread are crazy to think about like my massive beverage farm setup for drinks that apparently aren't great or don't exist anymore? Cops terrify me when traveling to Perishton to loot the power plant. And now you can't combine items to repair or improve them?

Sorry not trying to sound like I'm bagging on the game especially not with my first post here, but is the game still as fun as it used to be for those of you on PC? Because reading all of this is making me hope that the console ports never get updated... I can live with crashing once every hour or so.

It's still fun, just not in the same ways. Not going to get into specifics about it because it's been hashed to death over and over here.

The replay-ability for me, and for my server, is pretty much gone now. We just miss the hunt for RNG objects, miss the old biomes, cities, LBD, etc. Just seems the same every time now. Perk this and you're guaranteed *insert item*. Some of this is being worked on, like RNG with books, removing level gates and reorganizing perks, and RWG for cities. Right now it's hard justifying the cost of my server when it sits empty until I jump in for streaming. Hopefully some of these changes will reignite the passion. We'll see, only time will tell.

 

[AlyssaFaden]

@orn, best advice is.... dont listen to everyone bitching and complaining... thats just some people wont accept changes... when the game is finished and time slips by... they will be playing game and bitching about the next version... we cant stop them
but just try the game out for yourself and with an open attitude... a17 has far more to offer then what you had in console. after you have tried the new navezgane and rwg after its fixed (yes it is getting the work it needs), then you can try different mods to see if it spices up YOUR game.

dont follow the crowd... you were not born a lemming... enjoy the game for yourself.

You managed to do a magnificent job of getting so much wrong here. You were so hellbent on pushing back on "the haters" (spoiler alert: there are none in this thread) that you managed to miss a couple of important points.

1) I'm playing the heck out of this game and not hating on it at all. In fact it's soon to be my most often played game in my library. This is true for a lot of people.

2) This thread isn't about things we hate, but things we wish still existed. You're kinda literally missing the point here. re-read my OP and some of the following comments. No one is saying "this game is ♥♥♥♥!" what we're saying is "these items we used to like, wish they were still around." example: buff effects on drinks. A simple, little thing. We miss them.

3) He's on a console. He said it. You acknowledged it. He CAN'T try 17.<anything>. This renders your response kinda pointless.

Again: this is not an anti-TFP thread, it's not an anti-7 days thread, it's not an anti-17.<whatever> thread, and I'm currently one of the fans posting positive feedback on things like steam.

This thread has been wonderfully civil and not "bitching and complaining". The fact that you take it as such is ... disappointing. But also perhaps telling.

 

[unholyjoe]

You managed to do a magnificent job of getting so much wrong here. You were so hellbent on pushing back on "the haters" (spoiler alert: there are none in this thread) that you managed to miss a couple of important points.
1) I'm playing the heck out of this game and not hating on it at all. In fact it's soon to be my most often played game in my library. This is true for a lot of people.

2) This thread isn't about things we hate, but things we wish still existed. You're kinda literally missing the point here. re-read my OP and some of the following comments. No one is saying "this game is ♥♥♥♥!" what we're saying is "these items we used to like, wish they were still around." example: buff effects on drinks. A simple, little thing. We miss them.

3) He's on a console. He said it. You acknowledged it. He CAN'T try 17.<anything>. This renders your response kinda pointless.

Again: this is not an anti-TFP thread, it's not an anti-7 days thread, it's not an anti-17.<whatever> thread, and I'm currently one of the fans posting positive feedback on things like steam.

This thread has been wonderfully civil and not "bitching and complaining". The fact that you take it as such is ... disappointing. But also perhaps telling.

i beg your pardon SIR/MADEM, i shall shut up as i am not allowed my opinion. EODFM

 

[fallenbox]

The truth is that the game now feel more like a ♥♥♥♥ty reiteration of a fallout game, it lost that immersive atmosphere after 16.4, after a couple of hours you'll understand that basically you have to do always the same things over and over with little to no variation and no replayability.

 

[Khulkhuum]

People, calm down... There's really no need for so many emotions here.

One point is i think that the game changed quite big and not many games perform such big changes (even in EA), although i recently seen someone play Astroneer and it's in many ways different than when youtubers started doing lets plays about it (from the mechanics standpoint). I don't say it's necessarily bad, but at the moment we're still deep in a tunnel of changes and can't see the sunlight of stabilization (even though we know it's there somewhere).

That aside, i understand people who want the game changed in some ways, because they think it would benefit it (i got some of my own ideas). Saying something like "this can be modded" isn't a good excuse either, because not everyone mods their games and some things really should get into the vanilla game (insert many community mods in many different games that ended up going into the games themselves). On the other hand i wish more people should mod, especially as 7DTD is so easy to mod. Still, there are some things that shouldn't go into vanilla game, even though they are so useful (Magic Storage mod for Terraria FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!).

So yeah, there are so many different sides to this that you can't simply say just a couple words. I agree on one thing: Stay open minded and make up your own thoughts on the updates, everyone thinks for themselves and will either like some things or not.

 

[Aerial]

I miss footsteps, too! It was way scary crouching in a shed on night one listening to a big horde traipsing by just outside.

I miss the hub cities.

I miss loot drops from zombies (especially when you mostly got gun(parts) from cops and ferals).

I miss spiders being the screamers. Those things used to be absolutely terrifying. Now they're mostly just annoying. Sort of like cicadas.

I miss giant wandering hordes (though I am hopeful this is a balance issue and they will return).

I miss using "e" to harvest (just added a mod to bring it back and couldn't believe how much happier I was)

I miss RNG and not knowing what would happen next.

 

[AlyssaFaden]

i beg your pardon SIR/MADEM, i shall shut up as i am not allowed my opinion. EODFM

Oh no, no .. not my intent; merely that you see that some of us actually love the game and reminisce over some lost features and functions we actually liked;often those small, little, innocuous things. I get there's a lot of rage against 17.<whatever> but not all reminiscing falls into that camp.

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I miss footsteps, too! It was way scary crouching in a shed on night one listening to a big horde traipsing by just outside.
I miss the hub cities.

I miss loot drops from zombies (especially when you mostly got gun(parts) from cops and ferals).

I miss spiders being the screamers. Those things used to be absolutely terrifying. Now they're mostly just annoying. Sort of like cicadas.

I miss giant wandering hordes (though I am hopeful this is a balance issue and they will return).

I miss using "e" to harvest (just added a mod to bring it back and couldn't believe how much happier I was)

I miss RNG and not knowing what would happen next.

The wanering horde thing is curious ... I am running a mod that puts hordes back in and makes them x4 the size (they're HUGE) and there's zero impact to performance. Not quite sure why they took them out, because they're absolutely wonderful to encounter.

In a "oh ♥♥♥♥" kind of way.

 

[Lanadon Conners]

Oh no, no .. not my intent; merely that you see that some of us actually love the game and reminisce over some lost features and functions we actually liked;often those small, little, innocuous things. I get there's a lot of rage against 17.<whatever> but not all reminiscing falls into that camp.
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The wanering horde thing is curious ... I am running a mod that puts hordes back in and makes them x4 the size (they're HUGE) and there's zero impact to performance. Not quite sure why they took them out, because they're absolutely wonderful to encounter.

In a "oh ♥♥♥♥" kind of way.

I remember putting along the back roads of A16 Nav on my minibike and cresting the top of a big hill... and seeing a 10-15 Zombie horde climbing the other side right in your path... That "Oh Crap" moment.. you are perfectly safe but you still gasp and react for a moment..

 

[orn]

Wow! I'm really surprised at how many of you responded to my question! I forgot to add one little detail to my original post. I own 7 Days to Die on PC too, I just haven't gotten around to fixing my PC. I'm definitely going to check it out on PC and see what the differences are, I just wasn't sure if it was worth checking out or if it would just rock my world in the amount of things that have changed. Lol sorry folks I've got my coffee in my and I'm coherent now. I'm really glad to see there's a lot of people that still play! Cheers and thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[Aerial]

Oh no, no .. not my intent; merely that you see that some of us actually love the game and reminisce over some lost features and functions we actually liked;often those small, little, innocuous things. I get there's a lot of rage against 17.<whatever> but not all reminiscing falls into that camp.
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The wanering horde thing is curious ... I am running a mod that puts hordes back in and makes them x4 the size (they're HUGE) and there's zero impact to performance. Not quite sure why they took them out, because they're absolutely wonderful to encounter.

In a "oh ♥♥♥♥" kind of way.

Which mod? I'm running JSS right now which puts a lot of the fun back into the game, and I think must increase the ambient zombie count some because it's definitely better, but no huge wandering hordes. (It might also be a Guppy mod I'm using, but I thought that one was only for blood moon hordes).

 

[unholyjoe]

Oh no, no .. not my intent; merely that you see that some of us actually love the game and reminisce over some lost features and functions we actually liked;often those small, little, innocuous things. I get there's a lot of rage against 17.<whatever> but not all reminiscing falls into that camp.

but i did say "some" and didnt drop any names. i too do not like some of the old removed stuff and i did express my opinion about in dev chat before... but i am not butt hurt because i do know that we all will not get what we want... includes me. as for OP i was kinda hoping to entice a move from restricted content to a larger amount and to experience personally.

i know i stated EODFM but i figured you deserved a slight explanation.

 

[Roland]

Not quite sure why they took them out, because they're absolutely wonderful to encounter.
In a "oh ♥♥♥♥" kind of way.

Experience. They were seen as too big of an xp buffet and they were occurring too often and like clockwork. So they were reduced in size to not be such a large xp binge event and their path was offset from the player by quite a larger margin so they wouldn’t always come into contact with the player.

 

[Khulkhuum]

Experience. They were seen as too big of an xp buffet and they were occurring too often and like clockwork. So they were reduced in size to not be such a large xp binge event and their path was offset from the player by quite a larger margin so they wouldn’t always come into contact with the player.

There is a pretty easy solution for this. Reduce the XP you get from weaker Zs by a lot (let's say 40% less) and make harder Zs give less also (10-20% less). There are already numerous ways to hit levels without killing Zs that it would only in the slightest hinder the progress.

I have made similar changes in my modlet i prepare (along with reduced zombie HP) and it feels nice not wondering if i killed too many zombies and power leveled by accident. Not to mention i did set higher spawns.

 

[RipClaw]

There is a pretty easy solution for this. Reduce the XP you get from weaker Zs by a lot (let's say 40% less) and make harder Zs give less also (10-20% less). There are already numerous ways to hit levels without killing Zs that it would only in the slightest hinder the progress.

The XP you get for killing zombies has already been reduced once in A17 by about 30%. In the Experimental you got 700 XP for a normal zombie and that was reduced to 500 XP. I'm afraid if you reduce it even further, many will complain that it's even more of a grind than it already is.

Personally it wouldn't bother me so much as I get more XP and levels from other activities anyway.

However, there are players who focus on killing and looting zombies. Everything else is boring for them. Of course they shouldn't be disadvantaged.

 

[Khulkhuum]

My biggest issue with XP from zombies is that it is so inconsistent compared to the effort you have to put in to get specific amounts. Mentioned effort here is damage done, for example: If you can kill Zombie A easier than Zombie B (has less HP) but you get the same XP, then the most preferred method for gaining levels is to kill as much Zombie A.

I know this is abstract to some extent, because you don't care which zombies you kill, but it only shows the difference in gains compared to effort you have to put out. For example, killing Feral Boe and Feral Darlene gives both 700 XP, bit first has 285 HP and second 237 HP. How many bullets/melee hits do you save when hunting only Darlene? You don't get anything more for killing a zombie with higher HP. And don't get me started on legendary Lab zombie...

Below is part of the list of the used Zs with their XP received and HP they have (all from the files).

Zombie name in file XP HP

zombieTemplateMale 550 150

zombieWightFeral 1000 532

zombieWightRadiated 1250 1010

zombieBoe 550 150

zombieBoeFeral 700 285

zombieBoeRadiated 900 541

zombieFootballPlayer 700 250

zombieFemaleFat 550 200

zombieFemaleFatFeral 700 380

zombieFemaleFatRadiated 900 722

zombieJoe 550 150

zombieJoeFeral 700 285

zombieJoeRadiated 900 541

zombieMoe 800 250

zombieMoeFeral 1000 475

zombieMoeRadiated 1250 902

zombieArlene 550 125

zombieArleneFeral 700 237

zombieArleneRadiated 900 451

zombieLab 550 125

zombieLabFeral 700 237

zombieLabRadiated 900 451

legendaryZombieLab 550 800

zombieScreamer 550 75

zombieScreamerFeral 700 142

zombieScreamerRadiated 900 270

zombieDarlene 550 125

zombieDarleneFeral 700 237

zombieDarleneRadiated 900 451

zombieMarlene 550 125

zombieMarleneFeral 700 237

zombieMarleneRadiated 900 451

I need to finish this modlet... smh...

 

[Rez090]

One thing I wish would get restored: temperature ratings on armor pieces. Best part of former good iron armor was that it would help keep your temperature down. Paired very well with the trench coat for keeping your temperature well balanced.

 

[AlyssaFaden]

I remember putting along the back roads of A16 Nav on my minibike and cresting the top of a big hill... and seeing a 10-15 Zombie horde climbing the other side right in your path... That "Oh Crap" moment.. you are perfectly safe but you still gasp and react for a moment..

Cam back to base ... huge wandering horde wailing on the walls. Everything I want from a zombie game tbh.

 

[AlyssaFaden]

Which mod? I'm running JSS right now which puts a lot of the fun back into the game, and I think must increase the ambient zombie count some because it's definitely better, but no huge wandering hordes. (It might also be a Guppy mod I'm using, but I thought that one was only for blood moon hordes).

It's a mod by Xajar. He does a whole slew of them (little modlets) one is called WanderHordeSize and can be tweaked as preferred

 

[AlyssaFaden]

Experience. They were seen as too big of an xp buffet and they were occurring too often and like clockwork. So they were reduced in size to not be such a large xp binge event and their path was offset from the player by quite a larger margin so they wouldn’t always come into contact with the player.

Thanks for the explanation, although tbh it has me scratching my head in a "TFP fixed this by doing what now ...?" kinda way.

If players want XP we run over to a POI, knock on the wall and start wailing on everything that stirs. XP can be easy to get from mauling zombies, and zombies can be found. Heck, honestly, look at the screamer farm tricks going around.

Removing from of the core beautiful features of a zombie apocalypse - i.e.: the hordes - to address a gameplay feature ... in a zombie game - that of XP ... as a fix ... is ... strange at best.

Hordes need to come back, period. Address the XP in other ways. We can get screamer hordes, we can get xp farms ... so address the XP by reducing volume of XP, or XP diminishes by kills in quick succession, or XP is awarded for "horde" vs. "zombie" etc etc etc