PC Things TFP removed ... and you wish they hadn't

[Poojam]

[quote=AlyssaFaden;958921

What things have been removed for YOU that you wish were still in the game?

Sound. You used to be able to hear people from a long ways away. It was thrilling to track down a tinking forge or someone augering. It was actually a bit op to be fair if you turned down all the ambient noises. But instead of making it more realistic they nerfed it into the ground. Now you can't hear that guy standing 250 meters away shooting at you with his ak47 or hear that mini bike because they are two blocks over. It's completely terrible and has made pvp very difficult. You can only rely on visuals or hear people right on top of you essentially. Would like to be able to hear gun shots, vehicles, and power tools from 1km away or so. Not unrealistic.

Weapon parts, books, quality levels on batteries and engines affecting speed, my characters agility and stamina is now all chopped up and spoon fed back to me via xp, run strafing, run backwards, sticks, combining things on workbenches, loot from zombies, picking plants instead of punching, hate that you can craft everything, quality of item being tied to loot level of the looter, crafting grid, left click menus.

Basically everything they have redone since a9. The stuff they added since then is good (distant terrain, birds, vehicles, paint, more recipes, quests, traders I guess, gfx updates). But at least 50% of their design work has been focused on making the game more of a grind fest. Anything that madmole seems to have a say in tends to go that way anyways. They could be hundred millionaires by now, but instead they will spend it all developing their idea of what is fun instead of what the market wants and then spending their cash and retirement developing their vision.

 

[Jeraal]

I agree with many of the things previous posters have mentioned. So, for me, I wish they had not removed the fun from the game. I am currently playing 17.2, trying to like it. Not really succeeding.

 

[R0bb0b]

Learning by doing

cliffs

books

old cities with endless spawns

old night time music and voices

hoard mode

smelly meat

feral mode

old caves that stretch for kilometers

one hitting stone

tree walls

simple POIs

old zombie AI (It had its problems but they could have surgically made it better rather than starting over with something that is even less fun)

would have been great if they improved upon the previous skill system instead of, again, throwing the entire thing out replacing it with this boring static system

the old camp fire UI (Ya I'm one of those)

The game just sucks now and I really don't understand the mind set, but I'll skip an alpha and play again in A19 to see how things are at that point. We'll see.

 

[BloodDeacon]

- Log spikes
They have caused only little damage but have been very durable and always popular as a decorative element.

Upgraded log spikes were brutally powerful for CC purposes, and would render hordes virtually powerless in short order in A15 or A16 when used as a perimeter. I wish they had found a happy medium in A17 between the OP structure they were and the non-existence they possess now, TBH -- maybe dismembering only a subset of the weakest zombies and/or being limited to a minor crippling debuff.

 

[General Lee]

Not sure why First Aid Kits no longer give instant health, but they should work better than they do now at the very least. Also, painkillers not only give you 40 HP instantly, they also decrease the amount of damage you take by 10% while you're under their effects if I'm not mistaken. I don't even bother with First Aid Kits now, because they take too long to increase your health. I stick to first aid bandages and painkillers for the most part. Painkillers will dehydrate you, but if you keep your hydration high, and carry yucca juice to counter the side effect, you'll be fine.

 

[JCrook1028]

Not sure why First Aid Kits no longer give instant health, but they should work better than they do now at the very least. Also, painkillers not only give you 40 HP instantly, they also decrease the amount of damage you take by 10% while you're under their effects if I'm not mistaken. I don't even bother with First Aid Kits now, because they take too long to increase your health. I stick to first aid bandages and painkillers for the most part. Painkillers will dehydrate you, but if you keep your hydration high, and carry yucca juice to counter the side effect, you'll be fine.

Painkillers have no effect on water... They did in A16 tho.

 

[General Lee]

Painkillers have no effect on water... They did in A16 tho.

I didn't notice that in A16.4, then again I mostly used First Aid Kits because they instantly healed you back then. Painkillers in A17 will dehydrate you. If you don't believe me, take one and watch your hydration level.

 

[ManicIdiot]

For me:

1. Drink effects. They could have been balanced out a bit, but having different effects for drinks made them have a purpose not only for locations, but situational as well.

2. Gun molds. The parts system was fine, but it was a little odd to find gun safes full of parts, but no complete guns. As a gun owner, I don't have any excess parts. Granted, I'm not in managing an arsenal, but even if I were, there'd be more complete guns than parts. The parts themselves, however, that was cool. The ability to repair weapons and upgrade them with parts was a great addition. The removal of the ability to forge your own parts... was silly.

3. That Old Horde Feeling. Seeing a large (albeit laggy AF) group of zombies barreling down on you made the game scary. Sneaky zombies and sleeping zombies create jump scares, sure, but that adrenaline rush of dealing with big numbers is a feeling all on its own. That includes the panic of losing a base due to infiltration. The problem was always performance here, though. I understand their urge to find a balance, but reducing the numbers was not a good choice IMO. Instead, I would created larger single enemy objects that looked like huge clusters of zombies. When a horde block would spawn, there would be a few stragglers around it to give it an organic look and as players took out "zombies" in the horde block, it would break down into individuals when it reached a certain threshold. This way you could have an army of horde blocks that are only taking up a handful of "units". I love going into a house and being run out by sleepers, but not every house is a boarding house or hotel stuffed to the rafters with dead guests.

4. Books. The old skill system needed a lot of help, but I still loved the book search. Finding rare schematics and skills were fun journeys in loot gambling. There should have been a better balance between book skills and learned skills by doing activities. I definitely prefer my skills to go up naturally based on what I am doing than giving me a bunch of choices for me to ♥♥♥♥ up because I thought one skill was better, but was not one I used on a regular basis.

5. Sneak Jumping. Yes, it was cheap. Yes, it made no sense. No, I didn't want it gone

 

[Blackrook]

Got to agree with Roland, the gore blocks made having a high base a little bit more dangerous and more exciting.

Now by about day50 we have a pretty tough base that zombies might bash a bit but don't general get up to.

Although we have been playing with barbed wire bridges across from our ramps to give the zombies a chance to come and play up top.

But now you are still pretty invulnerable if you camp on top of a POI right from day 1.

We need zombies to be able to climb up each other easier (they do do it sometimes) otherwise the poor begger's don't stand a chance.

Also missing RNG caves you could really get lost in.

And from very early the way light slowed zombies, ie lit place no runners , dark place get worried.

I know it made for bases with lots of torches around them, but it felt balanced effort wise.

UMA zombies; just a few added in for a randomised mix made it a bit more interesting.

I think all of these were taken out because of performance rather than game play or balancing.

So unlikely we will see them back in the old form.

 

[ManicIdiot]

Got to agree with Roland, the gore blocks made having a high base a little bit more dangerous and more exciting.Now by about day50 we have a pretty tough base that zombies might bash a bit but don't general get up to.

Although we have been playing with barbed wire bridges across from our ramps to give the zombies a chance to come and play up top.

But now you are still pretty invulnerable if you camp on top of a POI right from day 1.

We need zombies to be able to climb up each other easier (they do do it sometimes) otherwise the poor begger's don't stand a chance.

I definitely miss the gore blocks. They weren't perfect, but they added an environmental change to the game that left a mark. Personally, I thought they should have taken it a bit further with decomp to help deal with performance hits and immersion. As time goes by, the gore blocks turn darker red, eventually to black, and create a "disease zone" where players have a chance for infection while in the area. This would get people to clean up bodies or make hazards from neglect.

Also missing RNG caves you could really get lost in.

Caves were a bit better when they were more cavernous and random. Even if it made little sense to have a cave in places, exploring a small cave that leads to an underground maze of confusion and resources was a trip. The snake caves were okay, but I preferred big holes in the ground. It catered to my inner dwarf.

And from very early the way light slowed zombies, ie lit place no runners , dark place get worried.I know it made for bases with lots of torches around them, but it felt balanced effort wise.

I disagree here. The running aspect of the zombies based on light never made sense to me. I always thought speed of zombie should be based on environment, decomp, and general damage. Younger, fresher zombies move faster; older, decrepit zombies amble about. Maybe I'm just a zombie purist. The blood moon concept is fine, but I'd make it less an environmental change (red sky, thunder, rain) and more zombie change. The moon turns red, and all the zombies have red eyes and become twitchy and hyper-aggressive. Maybe they all vomit like cops or something. Or EXPLODE!

UMA zombies; just a few added in for a randomised mix made it a bit more interesting.

Variety is definitely the spice of death.

I think all of these were taken out because of performance rather than game play or balancing. So unlikely we will see them back in the old form.

Very likely the case. I realize TFP have to balance performance with game immersion/interesting challenges, but there are a few ways to maintain performance while keeping it a zombie apocalypse, rather than a world wide Hide N Seek party gone horribly awry.

1. Horde units. Instead of having the horde being X number of zombies, have it be a single unit that simply LOOKS like a bunch of zombies. Like a multiheaded dragon, except this a block of zombies. When one of these blocks is spawned, several single zombies spawn with it to give it an organic look and as the player works down the HP of the Horde Unit, say below 50% HP, it breaks apart into individual zombies. So, if a block is to represent 10 zombies, at 100% it would look like 10 heads, 90% would be 9 heads, etc. This would reduce the number of "units" the game has to load while still giving the player the feeling that there is a horde near by. I think this would work better than a behemoth zombie.

2. Decaying + Diseased gore blocks. As stated above.

3. Zombie Stages. As the game progresses, the zombies should change too. And I don't just mean to feral or irradiated, but they should also be more decaying zombies than fresh zombies. This means younger, fresh zombies may be faster, but are generally "weaker" in the sense that whatever created the zombies in the first place hasn't evolved much in the host. Unlike late stage zombies, which are more decayed and slower, but harder to take down and do more damage. Have this stage be the in between stage to feral zombies. Once the human being has decayed away, all that is left is some kind of mutant which is faster, crazier, and likes to play poker on Saturday nights.

It just seems to be a little lazy to essentially have the same zombies in the late game, but they're just faster and harder to take down, at least in damage requirements. Certain perks will negate that now. Would help with the lore of the game and the immersion of making it a long time in the game.

4. Environmental Changes Over Time. The random gen has been difficult to manage as it's essentially a program trying to randomize something in a very specific way while still applying a wide variety of options. To simplify, I'd remove the burnt and the wasteland biomes from the generation process. Make it a random gen between snow, green, plains, and desert. Then, as time progresses, each biome will change based upon how the player has interacted with it. Meaning, a city that gets explored a bit may start off as a fresh looking city, but on day 114, when the player makes a trip back there, it has become partially wasteland as there's been no human activity and the zombie presence "blights" the land. However, in areas where the player has bases and is killing zombies, those areas stay as they were.

Have burnt biomes be formed randomly in time when a player is there, but have them start from a principle source and radiate outwards. You know... as if a fire broke out. Lastly, the desert and snow biomes should have the least amount of environmental change as they're already harsh wastelands. Burnt biome locations should be smaller in both, as burning sand makes glass, and snow hinders fire. I think this would help with immersion and giving both random gen and NG an evolutionary feel as the player survives into triple digit days. This would provide further incentive for the player to play longer as well as some will be interested to see how the world looks after 200 days in comparison to their last world that lasted 200 days.

I may have gotten a bit side tracked with this post... >.>'

 

[theFlu]

All healing consumes hydration, the painkiller is just the most noticeable being instant. Haven't tested it properly, but intuitively it doesn't seem any worse than other forms of healing.. take some damage and you'll be drinking quite quickly no matter how you heal it.

 

[AlyssaFaden]

Something else I miss:

explosives.

Mines

Exploding bolts

pipe bombs

All nerfed to the point where we don't bother using them AT ALL. The radius isn't enough and the damage is pathetic.

I sometimes wonder if TFP realize that when they nerf some things they render it pointless and therefore just "things to be sold".

 

[The Gronk]

[RANT]

The old terrain system.

There's no way the new terrain system is going to be able to match it for size. Sure, it would have been harder to do things like rivers but since what we've been shown of the new rivers is only ever at sea level and flat I'm hesitant to actually call them rivers.

It seems with the new terrain tile system is offering the best technology 1986 has to offer, seriously, check out the back pages of the AD&D 2nd edition Wilderness Survival Guide. You'll find the basics of terrain tiles in there, just switch the hexes for a Voronoi noise algorithm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness_Survival_Guide

It's going to be hard to mix the terrain tiles in such a way that you don't end up with a flat border around the edges of each, probably with a canal running between them. It's hearkening back to the days of Alpha 8.

If we're going to stick with this ancient technology can we at least use it in a modern way? One of the problems that's been reported by many PVP players over the years is that people can generate the map and then find the best spots before spawning. The main excuse used by TFP is that they don't have a fully authoritative server. Okay, here's your chance to actually make it authoritative in some respect. Instead of dumping the map in its entirety on someone who just wants to see what a server is like, have the server only send the relevant tile data to each client. It'll put extra strain on the server but that's mostly what servers are for, to take the strain off the client. This will also prevent people from downloading the map and having a look for good spots using the freely available map viewer.

[/RANT]

 

[PurgatoryWolf]

Being able to paint a block to look like a bookshelf.

Chat box being in the corner. it's very much in the way now.

Player Trade Economy. Now with Trader quests players get loads of dukes, and gear is just dumped in your lap, players don't need to bother trading or selling to each other anymore. Back in 16 looting high quality items was rare for us, and we had a healthy trade economy, now, its awful, no one needs to buy anything cause they've already done looted 4 of it and since no one needs it, they just sell it to a trader.

I do not miss gun parts, but I do miss being able to combine things in the workbench to repair them or upgrade them.

Why don't we get an XP for crafting? I get xp for punching grass, but not for crafting 250 arrows in my bag?

Making yucca juice without needing clean water.

Drink Effects.

Stumbling upon a wandering horde.

Non-dungeon or quest prefabs.

Books. I think it would have been neet to instead of needing perks to learn something, we learn it from a book/schematic, and reading one you already learned should give XP or a skill point or something.

Bees, I miss the bees.... I'd be happy with Bees AND vultures.

Lootable Stumps.

 

[hotpoon]

combining things on workbenches

Ooh yes. Loved that. The first time I ever came across being able to combine 2 of the same thing to make 1 better was in an old RPG called 2 worlds. It was a rubbish game, but that one thing was such an awesome feature, so when they added it in 7 days, I was so happy.

 

[ManicIdiot]

Being able to paint a block to look like a bookshelf.

Realistic? No. Amusing? Absolutely.

Player Trade Economy. Now with Trader quests players get loads of dukes, and gear is just dumped in your lap, players don't need to bother trading or selling to each other anymore. Back in 16 looting high quality items was rare for us, and we had a healthy trade economy, now, its awful, no one needs to buy anything cause they've already done looted 4 of it and since no one needs it, they just sell it to a trader.

I've been on the fence about the trader in general since they brought them in. A standing, impervious location kinda... I dunno... bums me out a bit. Not being allowed to turn a trader's hub into a base is a decision I do not understand. And I really need to get my hands on their mass teleportation machine that kicks me out at closing time. That would be really useful.

I like the traders conceptually, but I'd prefer it if they were a hostile location that gets higher rates of spawns and can be defended by the player. Or roaming traders with mercs like New Vegas. But that would mean having NPC settlements that the traders would be going to and, well... people have been asking for some kind of NPC presence for quite some time now, so...

I do not miss gun parts, but I do miss being able to combine things in the workbench to repair them or upgrade them.

I do miss gun parts, just not the insane dismemberment of them. Like some crazed cat burglar gang broke into every building in the world, stole all their guns, broke them up into individual pieces, and then randomly placed them in safes and trash cans. For the lulz.

Why don't we get an XP for crafting? I get xp for punching grass, but not for crafting 250 arrows in my bag?

Good question. I'm not too keen on the xp system as it is anyway, but it is a bit confusing. You'd think it would take more personal experience to craft an arrow than it would be to become the Rocky Balboa of lawnmowers, but hey... what do I know?

Making yucca juice without needing clean water.

Kinda puts a hamper on the whole desert survival aspect of the game, doesn't it?

Bees, I miss the bees.... I'd be happy with Bees AND vultures.

Must... resist... urge... to... smack... silly... >.>'

The flying monster creatures gave the game an element of annoying challenge, but still falls in the category of: WHY? Why are there giant, aggressive, mutant bees with infinite, detachable stingers roaming around... a city? Just... just why!? I am trying to understand the connection between fleshing eating zombies caused by a virus/bacteria/aliens/radiation and killer bees. Aliens and radiation, sure. Aliens probably have a sense of humor and radiation means... anything, really. It can make Spider-Man and bees with projectile buttocks.

But if that's true, why aren't there giant spiders and killer moths and swarms of venomous gnats with multiple personalities? Budgeting? Fair enough.

As for the vultures, at least they were undead. I'd prefer a more pure zombie apocalypse survival experience with a well managed horde system that could generate situations like Dawn of the Dead mobs that don't destroy everyone's FPS. A pipe dream, I know, but it's mine! Either way, vultures, giant bees, and God Traders are probably not in there. If only TFP were making this game just for me...

Lootable Stumps.

OMFG... this. I cannot stress this enough. I loved the stumps. I would bang a stump. Stumps gave me so many cool moments of amazement and laughter. Why on earth did someone leave these three bowls of fresh meat stew and a pistol grip in this frozen stump in the middle of a winter wonderland? I don't know, but praise that person for their weird ingenuity and miraculous protection against the elements! Thank you, Saint Weirdo. Thank you.

 

[Guppycur]

The fun of being able to do what you wanted when you wanted to. Don't give me any crap about "too fast of progression" either; the majority of my playing (not modding) hours were in those earlier builds.

 

[Roland]

Something else I miss:explosives.

Mines

Exploding bolts

pipe bombs

All nerfed to the point where we don't bother using them AT ALL. The radius isn't enough and the damage is pathetic.

I sometimes wonder if TFP realize that when they nerf some things they render it pointless and therefore just "things to be sold".

Explosions are getting some love. They are not currently what TFP wants them to be and they do know that they need to be more impactful.

 

[ManicIdiot]

Explosions are getting some love. They are not currently what TFP wants them to be and they do know that they need to be more impactful.

Well, that's good news. Part of the appeal when I bought the game was blowing buildings up. Don't look at me like that; I just like fireworks! Even if it causes a temp fps hit. XD

 

[Roland]

Smell.