They are bring a hybrid LBD!

[meganoth]

And that begs the question... is it even worth spending dev time on it if it has so little value?

So little value to me or you. But maybe not to someone who wants that dopamine kick.

Here's the thing... Do you think that the majority of people who have been begging for LBD to return wanted it for crafting? Or for their actions? I am going to bet that most wanted it for actions. If it was also added for crafting, they wouldn't mind (probably). But if it's one or the other, they would absolutely want it for actions and not for crafting. So by saying they are adding LBD back and then saying that it's only for crafting, you're just going to upset the LBD people even more than if they didn't bring back LBD. On the other side of the coin, most people who don't want LBD aren't likely to be happy with any form of LBD being added back to the game. Some will be fine with it if it's not too far off from what they prefer, but many others will not like it at all. So adding LBD back will also upset a lot of those players. Now, of course there are people who don't care either way. But they wouldn't care if LBD wasn't added back either. So the end result of this is that they will upset those who want LBD and those who don't want LBD and almost the only people who don't care wouldn't have cared if it wasn't added back.

It is a compromise. I would guess that a lot of people like the perks now and would react similar if they were removed. Also it is the magazine system that seems to garner the most critique and would be the first choice for some adjustment.

There will be all sorts of reactions and I can't even guess how many will be in which "reaction group". I am assuming one important itch is scratched when actions you do lead to improvement, i.e. whenever you shoot a zombie, not only do you get XP but also there is a chance it makes DING and you get told that something got better.
Is it that important that it won't be your damage but your crafting skill that got a small upgrade? There will be players who say it isn't enough and there will be players who will play and like that system. I can not guess how big both groups are, neither can the players in those groups really. But obviously we will hear mostly from the former group and surely all their friends will be in the same group

So you have to ask whether this is a smart choice by TFP. Regardless what you think of LBD or if you think you can accept how they are going to implement it, do you think that my assessment is incorrect? Do you think people who want LBD are going to be happy with it being only for crafting or that they are likely to be more upset having it only for crafting than if it wasn't brought back at all? Do you think people who don't want it will be happy about it being brought back for crafting? What do you think is the net gain/loss in approval among players with adding LBD to crafting only? Do you think more will approve of the change or disapprove of it compared to if LBD wasn't brought back at all and wasn't ever suggested by TFP that it would be brought back?

I don't feel I have enough information to answer any of those question with any accuracy, and anyway it is too late to ask things like "Was it a mistake". I can tell you only that I don't think it will diminish my fun of the game since perks will not be touched and that is the important bit for me personally.

Although I don't want LBD and this method they plan to add should be very easy for me to ignore so I'm not too horribly upset about it, I think that if they were going to bring LBD back, they would have been better off adding it to actions so that even if they upset one group of people (those who don't like LBD), they'd at least get approval from the other group of people (those who like LBD). As it is now, they're basically going to upset both sides. You're already seeing people from both sides complaining about it.

They bring back LBD to actions if my assumption is correct. Just not fully. We always see the complainers but almost never the ones who are fine with it, except for posters like us who comment on almost everything

As I said a while back, TFP has been making some rather questionable design decisions lately, thinking what they are doing is great only to have a lot of people point out how bad it was, forcing them to have to waste a lot of time fixing it. Did they get a new head game designer? I don't want to say anything bad about someone I don't know, but it has really changed lately and I don't know why that is. It's one thing if they just make a decision that people don't like, but to think it's a great decision that everyone will love and most seem to hate it... that isn't a good path to be on.

I don't see any new head game designer. I see Madmole, who has been (as far as we know) designing a new game, returning for an intermezzo to this game after a ■■■■storm steam voting resulted in endangering his company that still depends 100% on 7d2d's revenue. And he is trying to placate those ■■■■stormers while still keeping the game how he wants it aka his vision. By adding some systems on top and/or making some of it tuneable with options. Not the worst approach. Though naturally also showing to everyone who wants this or that old system back that now is the time to make a stink.

 

[Scyris]

Yeah and it seems mostly pointless if it doesn't up damage, attack speed, reload speed, etc like it should be doing, what the hell is the point to having it for crafting skills? Thats back to a15 stupidity in a way where u had to craft 10 thousand stone axe's to get good at making tools. I get it raises as you swing but I don't see the point to it, if it doesn't improve the damage, atk speed, reload etc of the weapon or tool. The worse mistake tfp made was locking the weapons to stats in the way they did it. 5 stats should be reduced to 3: Combat, Survival, Defense. All weapons would be under combat, survival would be mining/salvage tools, defense would be armor and perks like parkour etc just as a basic example.

Now if it does improve the damage/attack speed/reload speed(for guns and archery) and lowers stam use (for melee/tools) then i'll take back what I said, but from what i've heard so far, I just don't see much of a point to this system. Using magazines is going to be much faster than just grinding it out.

I'd like to see something actually NEW get added to the game that is not a rehash of a old system the game used to have. As there hasn't really been anything new in years. The LBD thing could be good if it improves damage etc as well as craft unlocks, but if it doesn't whats the real point? The LBD they are planning is basically alpha 15, just instead of repeatly crafting the item you repeatedly hit things. I'll have to hold my actual opinion on it till I try it, but from what I heard so far I don't even see the point.

That said I am glad the game is modable, as thats the only way I can usually stand to play it lately, as vanilla is so bland and boring and hasn't really gone anywhere in over 8 years. If you played back since a15/16 you prob feel the same way I do, most players from back then do,

 

[Scyris]

I just wanna know does the LBD up damage/attack speed/reload speed/stam use reduction for their proper items? or is it just a stupid thing for crafting? As if its for crafting you might as well not bother putting it back, especially if your just going to nerf the magazine drop rate on top, your not fixing the problem at all, your just basically keeping it the same. Except now you have to grind for craft skill due to the nerfed mag drops, so it ends up being the exact same thing just in a diff way.

 

[Jost Amman]

I just wanna know does the LBD up damage/attack speed/reload speed/stam use reduction for their proper items? or is it just a stupid thing for crafting? As if its for crafting you might as well not bother putting it back, especially if your just going to nerf the magazine drop rate on top, your not fixing the problem at all, your just basically keeping it the same. Except now you have to grind for craft skill due to the nerfed mag drops, so it ends up being the exact same thing just in a diff way.

You missed the part where TFP is trying to appease those players (and there are apparently A LOT of them) who don't like the magazines system that is currently used to get new recipes and improve crafting.

They'll add something LBD-adjacent so that people can also learn to craft things by using that thing (e.g.: you use clubs a lot -> you learn to craft better clubs because you know better how they work). That is the only LBD compromise they're going to do as far as I understood.

What you want is a complete re-write of the level up system, which, in my opinion, will only happen with mods.

As for the attributes and what you were saying in another discussion, I'll leave this here for you to meditate on:

(taken directly from the original Kickstarter)

As you can see they never talked about LBD, they always talked about Skills and "classes", exactly how it works now.
A15/16 was a transition and experimentation phase, not the final goal.

 

[retrogamingdev]

I maybe an outlier- but learn by doing doesn’t always work out to better gameplay, in my opinion. Technically, yes, it makes sense - as you do something more, you get better. But, I remember at some old alpha version, crafting the same item over and over and over to skill up. It just feels grindy and silly.

EDIT: I read more of the comments and it sounds like that isn't what we are getting - which is good.