Swapping Armor Sets

IzPrebuilt said:
Perhaps? my point is that far more players fall on the obsessive compulsively using their ■■■■ing brains side than the playing pretend side. If this were a more developed RPG you'd have a point but most people still play it conventionally as a game where you try to survive using the tools you have at your disposal.
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You know that's not what I'm talking about... we both know there's plenty of people who study the XML files to get all the hidden game info so that they can "game the game". Heck, some of them even use spreadsheets to find the best weapon/armor/skill combination to get ahead of the game!

Also, you're mocking the immersion crowd with the word "pretend", but the real word is immersion. People who "roleplay" are simply players who stay in character and play with common sense (yes, it's an ancient word used for normal people).

IzPrebuilt said:
Also calling "Using the mechanics that are intentionally in the game "abusing" is asinine and you know it.
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You mean like floating bases? Or like POI double dipping? I can tell you more examples if you like.

In any case I distinctly remember Joel talking about the armor sets, back when they were announced, and he was saying something like: "We have different armor sets for each play style, so if you like stealth you can use the assassin armor, if you like farming there's a set that will give you better yield with crops and such...".

He never talked about people continuously switching armor sets to get the best bonus for that moment.
People who do that, again, have an obsessive compulsive need for efficiency, and they'll start scratching the walls with their nails if they lose even a 1% bonus because they forgot to put on the <insert set type here> helmet before doing somethin.

That partly overlaps with the LBD crowd in my opinion, because whoever likes LBD needs constant micro-rewards to feel like they're improving and adding some useless bonus % to whatever they're doing.

Every system that was intentionally added to the game CAN be abused if you're inclined to do that.
I don't like and I think players who play like that are like addicts, but what the heck! knock yourselves out for all I care!
But then don't come here and say that the system is designed badly just because it doesn't fit your mental quirk! :rolleyes:
 
meganoth said:
Sorry, but lets roleplay: You are a survivor, and you have some combat armor with plates that help against zombie bites. And you have some work clothes a miner uses with cushions on the knees, miner helmet light, i.e. whatever a miner would wear. Would you not wear the appropriate clothing?
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If I have to change ONCE A DAY I'd be all for it, but not if while I'm mining I'm attacked by a screamer who spawns a mini horde, in which case I'd have to rush back and put the "fighting gear" back again, and then after I've dispatched the zombies I change back into the mining gear again.
 
IzPrebuilt said:
I mean sure but "you're not forced to play the game in a certain way" isn't exactly that good of a defense. That could be used as an excuse for literally everything the community complains about.

Like imagine IDK, Traders had level 6 autoshotguns for sale on day 1 and they cost 1 duke. That would absolutely be a flaw in the game and saying "Just don't use traders" would be silly.
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I know you’re the king of hyberbole but you could have thought up something even remotely parallel for comparison.

I guess, for me, farming without a farming outfit and mining without a mining outfit worked perfectly fine for many years and still does now. I certainly don’t view changing clothes before farming as something that I must do.

It doesn’t mean I won’t do it if I feel like it but if I don’t feel like it I won’t and somehow…..some way….farming still happens to an adequate degree for survival and even for thriving.

As I said, there are plenty of people who don’t change into outfits before switching to every action in the game and carry multiple pieces around in their inventory just in case. That’s proof right there that it isn’t such a strong incentive that nobody can resist it like a single Duke machine gun on day one.
 
Jost Amman said:
He never talked about people continuously switching armor sets to get the best bonus for that moment.
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He may not have talked about it, but he IMPLEMENTED it. You here pushing out psychiatric diagnosis on people that simply Don't Like the Design.

What you call OCD, is simply the game as is. It is a system "balanced" only with the drudgery of the UI. If you'd get all the armor benefits from say, scrapping each type of armor once, you'd use all of them yourself. But since the UI-clickery is too much to handle for you, you don't. Which means the design is crap, and you just land on the other side of the drudgery.
 
Jost Amman said:
If I have to change ONCE A DAY I'd be all for it, but not if while I'm mining I'm attacked by a screamer who spawns a mini horde, in which case I'd have to rush back and put the "fighting gear" back again, and then after I've dispatched the zombies I change back into the mining gear again.
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As we have seen there are different levels of how far people go with this. Some take alternative clothes with them, at least in the vehicle (people in reality do this as well), some put clothes in a storage box near the mine or the farm or the trader. And some players overdo it (in my view) and actually take multiple sets with them in their inventory continually.

I doubt there are many that go to the level you are describing though. I would advise someone who does that to look up a good psychiatrist
 
theFlu said:
He may not have talked about it, but he IMPLEMENTED it. You here pushing out psychiatric diagnosis on people that simply Don't Like the Design.

What you call OCD, is simply the game as is. It is a system "balanced" only with the drudgery of the UI. If you'd get all the armor benefits from say, scrapping each type of armor once, you'd use all of them yourself. But since the UI-clickery is too much to handle for you, you don't. Which means the design is crap, and you just land on the other side of the drudgery.
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Now YOU are diagnosing and projecting on me. You don't know much about how I like playing so don't try to fit me into your boxes, right? ;)

Also, read again my answer to IzPrebuilt, I specified what kind of player has a (real) mental quirk, if you missed it or ignored it then you'll know why your reply is out of place.
 
meganoth said:
As we have seen there are different levels of how far people go with this. Some take alternative clothes with them, at least in the vehicle (people in reality do this as well), some put clothes in a storage box near the mine or the farm or the trader. And some players overdo it (in my view) and actually take multiple sets with them in their inventory continually.

I doubt there are many that go to the level you are describing though. I would advise someone who does that to look up a good psychiatrist
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I resemble that remark :sneaky:
 
Jost Amman said:
Now YOU are diagnosing and projecting on me.
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Sorry; what did I say about you that wasn't fitting? You're not using the armors, even if you could, so you do land on the lazy side. You are telling people they're OCD. If I said something else that triggered you, please lemme know...

I read your answer to Iz -
"Floating bases" .. you're not using those because they're ugly. They don't confer advantages either, they're just silly. Has nothing to do with mechanics design as being discussed.
POI double dipping? So only the quest-loop gameplay is allowed, clearing a town without quests is wrong? Or isn't? And how does that relate to equipping items conferring bonuses?

Your examples have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

You're now specifying people who have a REAL mental "quirk" ... seriously? You're still diagnosing people over the internet, you should apply for a university, they'd love to have your abilities; they're groundbreaking.
 
I'd like to point out that resources aren't exactly scarce in this game. Getting the maximum possible yield from every node or every item you harvest is entirely unnecessary. If there were uber rare resources, with only a handful of nodes per map, and the resource from those nodes were needed in high quantities to make specific gear that was needed to have a chance at the most-difficult encounters, then I could see trying to get the maximum yield from such a resource. That's not the case though.

Think about how many playthroughs you've ended where you had a boatload of extra resources inside the various crates in your bases. Everything you didn't use was technically wasted. This happens to me on every playthrough. I have way too much than I needed, so I technically wasted time gathering those resources. I don't stress out about all that wasted time though, even though some people seem to imply it's worth stressing over an extra few percent here and there while gathering it.

Another thing to consider is diminishing returns on the bonuses. I recall that coffee gives an extra 5 or 10% (I forget which) of harvested materials when mining, but you get that full percentage only when you have no points spent in Mother Lode. If you have Mother Lode maxed out, you get only like 2.5-5% extra (something like that). It seems that many modifiers in 7DTD are additive, and not multiplicative, so when you have something that gives you +20% extra, you don't get 20% more of whatever you had before, it's 20% added to some base number, and if you already have a number of other modifiers, you get much less than 20%.
 
theFlu said:
He may not have talked about it, but he IMPLEMENTED it.
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He did not implement that. That's a choice you can make that is not in any way required.

Question regarding that: were gathering rates before the new armor was added nerfed in any way when the new armor was added? Do you have to use the new armor to match the gathering rates of old? If that's the case, I could see some annoyance, but I don't believe that's the case. The armor just gives you more than you were able to get before.
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Rooster Gold said:
Any time I can shave off mining and the more time questing the better.
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I'd love to see a test in a typical playthrough of how much actual time is saved mining without the armor vs with. You'd have to account for leftover materials with and without the armor bonuses going (in the case that there's leftover, i.e., you harvested more than you actually used, so you spent more time than was actually necessary).
 
plzkthxbye said:
He did not implement that.
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Then who did? It's in the game, it's bad, and the dude we're talking about is the boss of the studio. Or was.
Your actual point seems to be that it isn't Mandatory, our point is it is still Bad Design. Both are true at once.

No idea about the gathering rates, I can't remember if they were changed - I assume not. Doesn't really change the point about the design though, one way or the other.
 
Jost Amman said:
You mean like floating bases? Or like POI double dipping? I can tell you more examples if you like.
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Yes? I generally do avoid both of those lol.
Jost Amman said:
In any case I distinctly remember Joel talking about the armor sets, back when they were announced, and he was saying something like: "We have different armor sets for each play style, so if you like stealth you can use the assassin armor, if you like farming there's a set that will give you better yield with crops and such...".

He never talked about people continuously switching armor sets to get the best bonus for that moment.
People who do that, again, have an obsessive compulsive need for efficiency, and they'll start scratching the walls with their nails if they lose even a 1% bonus because they forgot to put on the <insert set type here> helmet before doing somethin.
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But it's not 1% it's like 50%. If the bonuses were like 10% more ore I'd get what you mean but using the correct gear can increase your efficiency to an insane degree.

Jost Amman said:
Every system that was intentionally added to the game CAN be abused if you're inclined to do that.
I don't like and I think players who play like that are like addicts, but what the heck! knock yourselves out for all I care!
But then don't come here and say that the system is designed badly just because it doesn't fit your mental quirk! :rolleyes:
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That's just an incredibly uninformed view of how people play video games lmao. MOST people generally look for better gear to increase their efficiency, that's the very reason why you upgrade from iron to steel. But when WE do it it's a mental illness? 🙄
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bdubyah said:
How did it add more though? Unless you min/max and carry around multiple pieces of armor. I watched Woodle lug a nerd outfit around for most of a series just so every time he had a magazine to read he could swap it on in the hopes of getting the bonus. That's min/maxing, flat out.
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It added more micromanagement because back before the armor overhaul we basically just put on the best armor + the best temperature gear and went on with it. Now you probably don't carry around lots of gear cus the inventory is so limited but a lot of people probably go back to base and switch out before doing another task. How often? That I'm not sure of.
 
Rooster Gold said:
That would be 30% Since I don't take Mother Lode - Only the +30% mining harvest from the mining helmet.
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This is not a test. You don't know this. You can't just look at that figure and say this is how much time I'm saving. Btw, are you complaining about swapping out one item to mine an extra +30%? That's too much of a chore for you to do? How often are you swapping out this helmet?

Do you end each playthrough without any resources remaining? If not, you wasted a lot of time mining or gathering resources, but I imagine you're not bothered by this.
 
I always have all the armor sets except for the nerd outfit, and I also don’t touch the intelligence skill tree. I don’t carry them with me, but when I go mining, scrapping cars, or gathering plants, I always switch to the appropriate set. I do this properly only once every few days, coming back with a large amount of materials that lasts me for several days.
 
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