ALEXZANDER
Survivor
Its a peak gamedesign (no), how dare you criticizing it?
Swapping Armor Sets
- Thread starter smedic55
- Start date
bdubyah
Hunter
But you don't have to? If you wanna min/max, sure, I guess it could be annoying. I typically only change when leaving my base for the day, and just pick what I think would help me the most that day. I usually just stay in my default that is either boosting HP, stam, or carrying capacity. I don't worry about salvaging, mining or any others unless I know I'm gonna spend the whole day doing it. I just leave any farmer stuff in a crate near my farm but I honestly usually forget to even equip it. I never carry multiple sets or pieces around with me on purpose.
ALEXZANDER
Survivor
And u will never get it because their actions cannot be explained by logic or common sence
Roland
Community Moderator
Joel isn't a min/maxer and doesn't think that way or play that way. He doesn't carry around multiple sets of armor in his inventory and he doesn't change his outfits before changing his activities in the game. So from his perspective, the armor system doesn't require constant micromanagement nor does it force inventory clutter. It doesn't in my game either. It doesn't in a lot of players' games either. It does in a lot of other players who choose to play in a micromanaging min/max playstyle.
That's fine. It's a choice. As long as people can admit that min/maxing and micromanaging is an individual choice then there is nothing wrong with the design. The proof that it is in fact a choice is that there are a huge number of people who do it and a huge number of people who don't. The design doesn't force anything.
theFlu
Hunter
A mechanic doesn't have to be mandatory to be bad. Like lockpicking; you can always just beat the box open, or you can suffer thru the "house-always-wins-roulette". Doesn't make lockpicking good.
TFP felt like swapping clothes for temperature, roughly twice a day is too much micro; and then they add reading armors, that you're supposed to swap at basically every bookshelf. And barter armors that you want to swap twice a day, and ... Just because you don't have to, doesn't make it good, and the design principles look borked from this pov - micro is good for a whole host of other things, just not weather survival?
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
I mean sure but "you're not forced to play the game in a certain way" isn't exactly that good of a defense. That could be used as an excuse for literally everything the community complains about.
Like imagine IDK, Traders had level 6 autoshotguns for sale on day 1 and they cost 1 duke. That would absolutely be a flaw in the game and saying "Just don't use traders" would be silly.
If TFP genuinely made the armor system as "Well we don't care if people are gonna min-max this mechanic" then why did they make the armors so specifically good at certain things?
Anyone who reaches the stage of having maxxed out armor progression and is about to go mining is gonna go "Oh do i have the best mining gear?" in the same way you don't look into your tool chest and just pick out a level 3 stone axe over a level 6 auger. You obviously choose the best option in that box and aim to have access to the best gear.
The solution to the armor micromanagement would be to have not put in these general purpose utility armors that literally every player will benefit from having (at least in singleplayer) like certain pieces of the Mining, Scavenging, Lumberjack, Nerd and Farming armors.
Sure if it was just different varieties of combat influencing gear it'd make more sense to just stick with one but I don't think it's valid to call a player a min-maxxer because before they go mining they think "Oh yes, if i craft these two pieces of armor I'll spend 50% less time mining"
Point being: I think it's micromanaging by design. Which means either TFP is fine with that...which is fine but it flies in the face of what they've said OR they genuinely sat there 10 years into making a video game after an additional 10 years in AAA and said "Surely only 1% of players will just choose not to craft the hat that makes you spend 50% less time clicking on rocks players HATE playing the game like they have brains"
HammerDano
Survivor
having quick change armour stands would be a help, to some, and it would make great decoration for those who care about that kind of thing.
personally, I don't change outfits for activities, I just wear the set that most closely fits with that playthrough.
personally, I don't change outfits for activities, I just wear the set that most closely fits with that playthrough.
Jost Amman
Hunter
Ok, since Roland is too polite to say this, I'll say it.
"You don't have to use it", in this case, in my book would be more something like: "you're an obsessive compulsive player who can't act naturally roleplaying your character in the game HENCE you're abusing the armor mechanics for maximum efficiency".
Yikes! I said it!
Now let the dogs of Hell loose!
theFlu
Hunter
No matter how many mental deficiencies you want to project upon your forum cohabitants, it doesn't improve the game as is. Just because you can't safely play this game for its addicting nature; doesn't mean adults can't discuss the merits of design that encourages finicky frantic UI-clickery.
zztong
Hunter
He's trading one efficiency for another. That is he tries to always maximize the armor benefits, but it costs him mission storage and time. That's playing the game, not a flaw in the armor system. I would probably have preferred all of the various armor bonuses have been expressed as independent mods, separate from the appearance, while that might be nicely flexible, he would then be carrying around a bunch of mods.
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
Perhaps? my point is that far more players fall on the obsessive compulsively using their ■■■■ing brains side than the playing pretend side. If this were a more developed RPG you'd have a point but most people still play it conventionally as a game where you try to survive using the tools you have at your disposal.Ok, since Roland is too polite to say this, I'll say it.
"You don't have to use it", in this case, in my book would be more something like: "you're an obsessive compulsive player who can't act naturally roleplaying your character in the game HENCE you're abusing the armor mechanics for maximum efficiency".
Yikes! I said it!
Now let the dogs of Hell loose!
Post automatically merged:
I'm not even necessarily complaining ABOUT the armor system. It's more that TFP had the goal of reducing micromanagement and inventory clutter and then implemented a system that added more and that's being justified as "Well most players choose to play inefficiently for roleplaying"
I'm speaking more on the contradiction of the design, not the actual system because I don't MIND micromanaging the armor but TFP essentially failed at the goals they had for it (Aside from making clothing look better)
IzPrebuilt
Survivor
Also calling "Using the mechanics that are intentionally in the game "abusing" is asinine and you know it.
If I was abusing a bug or a design oversight sure but TFP made the armor very deliberately and chose what it does. To any developers with brains I'm actually doing exactly what I'm meant to do.
"We put this in but don't do it" what???
zztong
Hunter
I must be mixing up who said what. I thought it was Rooster that was making a statement about the different armors. I should have been more clear.
I'll take your word for it. I thought the goal was better armor artwork, but I didn't follow the armor changes very closely. Personally, I keep one set of armor for routine use and eventually another set for horde night. I'm not going to bother switching to a farmer outfit to harvest food, a biker outfit to ride, etc. I wouldn't say I'm doing that for roleplay. It just seems practical.
Dark Sun
Survivor
Thank you for this. Using the mining set while mining? That's not abuse, that's not even minmaxing, that's just using the intended point of the armour. "Oh, but you don't have to use them." I get that all the time. My counter response? "Well, they didn't have to put them in the game, did they? But they did, and I'm using them. Miner's outfit for mining, lumberjack for chopping trees, scavenger for scrapping cars." If that's minmaxing, then so is putting points into their appropriate skills.
Edit: I see the armours as like the ergonomic grip. Do you need it? No. Is it nice to have? Yes. If you find one or can craft it, should you? Yeah, probably. Is that minmaxing? Nope, absolutely not.
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bdubyah
Hunter
How did it add more though? Unless you min/max and carry around multiple pieces of armor. I watched Woodle lug a nerd outfit around for most of a series just so every time he had a magazine to read he could swap it on in the hopes of getting the bonus. That's min/maxing, flat out.
Using a full miner set for mining isn't abusing anything. But putting it on and then also bringing along your best bartering gear in case you see the trader, or your combat-oriented set just in case you have to fight and then complaining about clutter is silly. Just decide on a set of armor to wear and get on with it. I'm not gonna throw on a miner set and then feel bad every time I get in a fight, wishing I had my better combat armor with me. That's just not how I play the game. But if you do, that's fine, just don't complain.
Rooster Gold
Scavenger
It saves vast amounts of time and perk points, I usually have Legendary Armor unlocked by day 10 (to long a wait IMO).
You use the Nerd outfit to speed up unlocking everything.
Mining helmet with a cigar & strength & gloves setup you can put 3 points in miner 69er with zero points in strength you can 2 shot iron and 1 shot stone speeding things up and getting extra resources, while saving skill points.
Scavenger gloves allow you to save putting points in salvage operations and get a harvest bonus saving time.
Farmers drastically makes things faster to the point of why bother without it.
I could go on.
They're is no trade off... only a clumsy annoying system of dress up that 'wears' thin...pun intended.
I keep most of my gear in my drone since I have one pretty early on.
Things like Nerd and Enforcer need to be in my inventory clogging up 2 slots I'd rather have otherwise.
They're is no trade off... only a clumsy annoying system of dress up that 'wears' thin...pun intended.
Ok, since Roland is too polite to say this, I'll say it.
"You don't have to use it", in this case, in my book would be more something like: "you're an obsessive compulsive player who can't act naturally roleplaying your character in the game HENCE you're abusing the armor mechanics for maximum efficiency".
Yikes! I said it!
Now let the dogs of Hell loose!
Sorry, but lets roleplay: You are a survivor, and you have some combat armor with plates that help against zombie bites. And you have some work clothes a miner uses with cushions on the knees, miner helmet light, i.e. whatever a miner would wear. Would you not wear the appropriate clothing, i.e. the miner clothes for mining, and the combat armor when going out facing the zombies ?
Rooster Gold
Scavenger
Keeping these with you saves on travel time, except farmers can go in a box by the farm, the rest however I find are better to have within reach.
Bartering gear most of all since I sell things on return to trader turning in the mission, making separate trips would be maddening.
Honestly, at this point just make the armor bonuses something you unlock on crafting the armor (or some other way), and let you switch them out in a UI like Diablo 3 had for the Horadric Cube or whatever it was called.
I don't swap armors around mostly because I don't think I've crafted any armor since they changed the system, because I usually get bored before I max out my armor crafting, and I'm not wasting resources on low level armor.
I don't swap armors around mostly because I don't think I've crafted any armor since they changed the system, because I usually get bored before I max out my armor crafting, and I'm not wasting resources on low level armor.
bdubyah
Hunter
Just different ways to play I guess. I value inventory space. For what you gain from the bartering armor I could probably match by having more room to carry more loot back.