PC So was the point of A19 to get rid of "Realism"?

[iamnuff]

Excellent idea for some other game, totally worthless for 7D2D: In an 8kx8k area with cities distributed about the area I am in a city in 5 minutes real-time.

Make more dangerous zombies more common in cities too. 

I know they were a hotspot for zombie dogs in the past. Cop zombies too. 

If it's safer to stick to small towns that don't have good looting spots in them until you actually have a decent gun, then you can slow players down. 

Because there are no difficult locations at the moment. That is planned for A20. Come on, even in this thread alone this must have been mentioned multiple times, are you just trolling to waste the time of other people?

 

That's bull. large scale POIs are extremely difficult in low GS. 

Taking on a factory filled with four dozen zombies with a bow and 14 arrows is suicide, unless you cheat your way up.  Especially if all you have to heal with is regular bandages and one or two painkillers. 

Hitting a ground level shop with four or five zombies in it is a completely different ballgame. 

In my current game I can literally, figuratively and actually only make a quality1 stone axe. The difference to a quality6 stone axe is profound. Are you always playing strength? Well, I don't

Since i'm still in a low enough GS to be getting stone tools, obviously nothing Q6 has ever dropped.

I'm looking at grade 2 stone tools, tops. Which... is better than what I can make, given I have basically no skill-points at this stage, but not enough to actually matter.

What's even the diffrence between a g1 and a g5 stone axe? 

More mod slots? 

I don't have mods

More duribility? 

It costs ONE SMALL STONE to do a full repair, so who cares? 

More damage? Is it significant? 

Probably not. 

 

[meganoth]

Repeating 'it's not done yet' isn't a proper defence. 

The game is for sale now.

We all know that it's not complete, but the Fun Pimps are accepting money for it. so the current version of the game should be playable and fun. 

If this was still an unstable build, I could accept that they'd toss something out to patch this in the next week or so, but it's not and they won't. 

This is the A19 stable release, which means that this is the state the game will probably be in for the next month or more. 

And it's not fun. 

Which is a problem. 

Also, going on and on and on about how the game will be better later is counterproductive. 

The game will be better if the devs get good feedback and can correct things to make the process more enjoyable for the players.

You trying to shout down anyone who isn't satisfied with the current build of the game in the forums is attempting to prevent that feedback. 

TLDR, stop harassing people who don't like the current build. People not liking things is an essential part of the development process. 

While that is true about good feedback, feedback about features that are already planned to be changed, upgraded or finished in a specific way is actually not that useful, as it gets largely ignored. Why? Because the devs think the complete version will solve the problems. Even if they are wrong that will only become evident once the feature is complete.

 

[meganoth]

 
Make more dangerous zombies more common in cities too. 

I know they were a hotspot for zombie dogs in the past. Cop zombies too. 

As I understand it, that is not possible with the current RWG code as it does not mark the map with information where cities are. The old central city in A15 could be made more difficult because it was always at 0,0. So the game automatically made the area around 0,0 more difficult.

This feature is not really difficult to add I would imagine, but that work has not been done yet. It will be done for A20.

If it's safer to stick to small towns that don't have good looting spots in them until you actually have a decent gun, then you can slow players down. 

 
That's bull. large scale POIs are extremely difficult in low GS. 

Taking on a factory filled with four dozen zombies with a bow and 14 arrows is suicide, unless you cheat your way up.  Especially if all you have to heal with is regular bandages and one or two painkillers. 

If someone knows the factory he just needs about 30 wooden ladders or wood frame blocks and the knowledge where to find the loot boxes. But the even bigger problem is that the same loot boxes that are on the highest level of the factory are also to be found in any tier1 or tier2 POI. There is no fast way to solve this problem.

And even if someone doesn't use ladders or wood frames to directly go to the loot, a wooden club doesn't need ammo, just time and careful play. If you know what you are doing, even a factory filled with basic zombies is just routine work.

Hitting a ground level shop with four or five zombies in it is a completely different ballgame. 

Yes, but the ground level shop has the same loot boxes at the end as the factory. To change that, nearly 500 POIs would have to be reedited (or RWG changed like they want to do in A20)

Since i'm still in a low enough GS to be getting stone tools, obviously nothing Q6 has ever dropped.

I'm looking at grade 2 stone tools, tops. Which... is better than what I can make, given I have basically no skill-points at this stage, but not enough to actually matter.

What's even the diffrence between a g1 and a g5 stone axe? 

More mod slots? 

I don't have mods

More duribility? 

It costs ONE SMALL STONE to do a full repair, so who cares? 

More damage? Is it significant? 

Probably not. 

A g5 stone axe should have 40% more damage on every hit. Fill up the additional 2 mod slots and another 6%(?) damage gets added on top of that, additional to the mods effects. Durability does not matter, not even on tier1-3 tools, even repair packs are cheap.

Is 40-50% more damage significant to you?

 

[alanea]

If you want to extend the stone-age, then force players to spawn far away from cities. Fluff it as being how they survived after the world ended. 

so people  enjoy runnign empty terrain for day or two  to have  more fun  ?

Removing loot is just awful, and making it so that places that should have good loot, don't, means that any shotgun messiah building you raid before hitting GS 50 or so is completely wasted. 

bs you can  loot probably any weapon at low quality ( i looted q3 deserty vulture  q2 sniper rifle  and bunch  of q1 ak   at low gamestage

Why are we being punished for looting difficult locations in the early game? 

there is no such thing as difficult place ... everything have scaled zombies to your gamestage .. equally   some are longer  but usually containing  more loot

Stone tools should only be found in trash piles or survivor rucksacks. 

Places where other survivors dropped them or died with them. 

so what should be inside crates ?  because clear intention is to slowly progress from primitive tools to steel over first weeks if you loot  iron  /steel shovel on day  1   whole progression is gone and stone tier tools are obsolete at start of game

'extending the stone age' is just "We wanted to pad the unfun part out and force you to stay there longer."

But... we don't want to do that. because it isn't fun. 

its sad you eprceive it as "unfun"   because running around weak  and with just blunmderbuss is  most enjoyable part of game  ... its mid / late game where you can facetank horde of irradiated wights  and spray them with unlimited ammo .. that turns game into boredom ( especially considering the fact looting wont give you anythiong more  at that point

Now, I do appreciate the blunderbuss getting more love. It's my favourite gun and it was completely worthless until recently, but your best way to do that is probably to make the ammo for it much easier to make than regular guns. 

Paper, rocks, gunpowder. 

What does this not cost? 

Bullet tips. 

Bullet tips require the tool and die kit, and a forge. 

 rock instead  bullet tip helps alot .... paper (  trash  material with almost no other use  droping at every cormer instead  bullet casings helps even more gunpowder is common drop now ... and you can buy  100-200 at traders usually  and for low price

so yeah  blunderbuss ammo  already is "much easier to craft"

make the shotgun messiah crates hold gun parts, the occasional low-grade handgun, and some random assorted bullets, and all the things to make bullets (bullet tips, gunpowder, nitrate, brass, lead, ect) 

Some gun-focused skillbooks? 

skillbooks have own crates and we are getting too many of them already  leda atc  in shotgun messiah chest is  as immersive as primitive bow ... why the hell would gun factory send crates full of nitrate to shops ....  soo unless  you  routinely enter weapon  shops .. and ask for   pack of coal ...

Make it clear to the player that they should build their own blunderbuss (if they want one) and make sure to give them all the stuff they need to craft ammo for it.

you cant  craft higher  grade  blunderbuss early game you need around  15  levels to craft  tier 5 -- if you dump all elvel ups into that  sole goal  normal player  would craft t2  or t3  at most   before they dump  blunder  overall

I like the melee turret, its not a weapon to kill with but a tool to manipulate zombie pathing to your liking.

Oh dont worry i still know that, i remember our previous chat very well. Infact i have it bookmarked for references if needed but remember that my argument still stayed the same.

well its useless past day  30  and that alone makes "  manipulating zombies" temporary early game solutionnothing else

but i think i already learned that you just troll around forums  complaining about everything   until game accept all your crazy bizzare ideas

Repeating 'it's not done yet' isn't a proper defence. 

The game is for sale now.

We all know that it's not complete, but the Fun Pimps are accepting money for it. so the current version of the game should be playable and fun. 

If this was still an unstable build, I could accept that they'd toss something out to patch this in the next week or so, but it's not and they won't. 

This is the A19 stable release, which means that this is the state the game will probably be in for the next month or more. 

And it's not fun. 

Which is a problem. 

well its your opinion and your problem honestly ... i enjoy game and have fun as well as many others  ,, every early acess game changes and can rapidly switch  directions ... some will like it some wont  but thats the risk od buying early acess game

Also, going on and on and on about how the game will be better later is counterproductive. 

The game will be better if the devs get good feedback and can correct things to make the process more enjoyable for the players.

You trying to shout down anyone who isn't satisfied with the current build of the game in the forums is attempting to prevent that feedback. 

TLDR, stop harassing people who don't like the current build. People not liking things is an essential part of the development process. 

problem is  that  silent majority is ok with state of game ...

actually most people i know love running around with blunderbuss instead ak for first week

 
Make more dangerous zombies more common in cities too. 

I know they were a hotspot for zombie dogs in the past. Cop zombies too. 

cities dont affect spawns at all and never did  ... what does is biome .. sadfly biome have no impact on rewards  so you get harder enemies but no better rewards and yes pimps see this as problem that should change in future

That's bull. large scale POIs are extremely difficult in low GS. 

Taking on a factory filled with four dozen zombies with a bow and 14 arrows is suicide, unless you cheat your way up.  Especially if all you have to heal with is regular bandages and one or two painkillers. 

nope   all poi are equally hard i looted both waterworks and  messiah factory .. and met  single feral zombie .. no wights no cops  no greenies   high tier pois   ar ejust longer  not harder

Hitting a ground level shop with four or five zombies in it is a completely different ballgame. 

Since i'm still in a low enough GS to be getting stone tools, obviously nothing Q6 has ever dropped.

day  2 Q6   wood club say hello .... together with Q5 stone shovel   and day  3  dropped Q6 9 mm pistol  loot is  biased in favor of stone tools  but you can still loot nice pieces ... and especially mods as mods are often desired early more than slightly better item ... whats point of t6 club if you waste potential by not having mods for it

 

[Futchmacht]

Starts to hack into the couple pre-Apocalypse crates that are there... only to find a primitive bow.. stone spear.. and blunderbuss.. in.. Both.. uhm.. what? This game takes place in America, land of guns in a cereal box.. why are these pre-apocalypse still sealed boxes containing... Post apocalypse beginner weaponry? Ok so then... looting the gun store is worthless.. Lets go get us some tools..

They need to replace stone tools with low level rusted tools or Walmart tools the kind you get for $2.99 you know the high quality stuff. The whole idea was that you cant loot atom bombs on day 1.  Its game balance if you want to talk about wrong when looting.. Whats the chance you will find 9mm in a trash bag 140 miles out in the bush. Or in a office block in a file cabinet. the looting system is in a game. The game starts with you poor and @%$*#!ty... and over time you get better stuff.

 

[Roland]

Repeating 'it's not done yet' isn't a proper defence. 

You're right. But my goal isn't to defend. My goal is to penetrate. There is an unwillingness to accept the truth that this is just one step towards their plan-- a plan, btw, that will address all of your complaints. There will be wider variety in loot containers, there will be the chance and opportunity to get exciting loot right from the beginning, there will be differentiation of the kind of loot you'll find in a small remnant vs a large Shotgun Messiah store.

You think I'm here cheerleading for this progression as it is and this is further proof that you just aren't comprehending that what we have is temporary. I don't want what we have now as the final design. As an alternative start to what we've had in the past it has been interesting and novel but I agree 100% that it isn't good for replay value and it is very linear. I'm kind of partial to a slow build up in the beginning so it doesn't bother me as much as others... but defend this as a good final design? Not me.

No...I'm just trying to educate. And at least Meganoth acknowledged the point I was trying to make so I know what I posted isn't impossible to understand. So I'm good at this point. I said my piece and you guys can collectively rant about something that will eventually be gone to your heart's content.

The game is for sale now.

We all know that it's not complete, but the Fun Pimps are accepting money for it. so the current version of the game should be playable and fun. 

If this was still an unstable build, I could accept that they'd toss something out to patch this in the next week or so, but it's not and they won't. 

This is the A19 stable release, which means that this is the state the game will probably be in for the next month or more. 

And it's not fun. 

Which is a problem. 

Early Access to the development process is for sale now. TFP is accepting money for the privilege of experiencing the game as it changes over time. That backstage pass includes a copy of the finished game once it is complete. Stable build simply means the game isn't crashing for most players. It doesn't mean that what we have is now the intended final design. You should also be aware that it will be Christmas time at the earliest before the next major update hits that will further their plan for progression. As for fun, that depends upon the person. You hate it. I think it is an interesting change from the normal. Others love it. They can't hold back a release over worry that some people might not find it fun. Luckily, they make past version available to you can revert and keep playing.

Also, going on and on and on about how the game will be better later is counterproductive. 

The game will be better if the devs get good feedback and can correct things to make the process more enjoyable for the players.

You trying to shout down anyone who isn't satisfied with the current build of the game in the forums is attempting to prevent that feedback. 

TLDR, stop harassing people who don't like the current build. People not liking things is an essential part of the development process. 

As Meganoth stated, they have a plan that they WILL see through to the end. In another thread I compared the finished progression design to an omelette. They just cracked some eggs into a bowl and threw away the shells as the first step towards their goal of a finished omelette and we are all in the kitchen with them. Giving feedback like "Raw eggs are gross. How is this helping?" or "I loved those shells. They were my favorite. Why did you throw them away?" or "Can't we go back to just having the eggs being in the fridge?" are not helpful. It is technically feedback. But TFP wants to make the omelette and they will go on to the next steps they have planned.

So what is good feedback? Sharing ideas and hopes and even fears you have about the finished product. Lift your vision from this particular step and try to understand the goal of the finished overall design and give feedback about that. If there are things you are fearful of that TFP might screw up then ask questions to find out if your fears have substance. Questioning to gain information is always going to be more constructive and productive than making wild speculations and accusations based upon assumptions.

As I said though, if you guys want to continue despite my assurances then by all means. I will leave you to it without harrassment. But I'll still lurk in case someone has a question instead of an accusation. I would love to answer questions as well as I am able as I am excited about TFP's plans in this regard.

 

[Solomon]

well its useless past day  30  and that alone makes "  manipulating zombies" temporary early game solutionnothing else

but i think i already learned that you just troll around forums  complaining about everything   until game accept all your crazy bizzare ideas

Yeah i heard this already instead of argumentation people just call the others trolls and pretend that they won by this.

Seriously the only point of the melee turret is to push zombies, it has no other function what means that their intented purpose is manipulating the pathing of the dead.

Also did you just countered your own points with this one?:

especially considering the fact looting wont give you anythiong more  at that point

My whole argument is based on that there are not enough items ingame to even out balance and provide a smooth experience what you deny because we already have "too much" and then after you come and make the claim that as soon as you reach middlegame looting becomes obsolote because you already have everything?

Well as you would do so, im gonna call you a troll now.

 

[JCrook1028]

Bullet tips require the tool and die kit, and a forge

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

 

[alanea]

Yeah i heard this already instead of argumentation people just call the others trolls and pretend that they won by this.

because you dont listen nor use  arguments you just repeat same bizare idea withou thinking about anything else ... thats trolling not discussion

Seriously the only point of the melee turret is to push zombies, it has no other function what means that their intented purpose is manipulating the pathing of the dead.

funny  because it had   like 20%   to knockdown and close to no knockback originally .... its weapon thats why it deals damage comparable to junk turret and its damage what you get from mods / quality  .. ti was just  so bad they tried to buff knockback  but  went too far  you can be sure it wont stay this way if pay attention to development of a19 theyw ant junk sledge to be something you carry weith self and use outside just as  turret ... and not magic base defense that throw  zombies several blocks away  or even bears ( dogs are glitchy btw they can fly  20 blocksaway randomly )

Also did you just countered your own points with this one?:

My whole argument is based on that there are not enough items ingame to even out balance and provide a smooth experience what you deny because we already have "too much" and then after you come and make the claim that as soon as you reach middlegame looting becomes obsolote because you already have everything?

Well as you would do so, im gonna call you a troll now.

They need to replace stone tools with low level rusted tools or Walmart tools the kind you get for $2.99 you know the high quality stuff. The whole idea was that you cant loot atom bombs on day 1.  Its game balance if you want to talk about wrong when looting.. Whats the chance you will find 9mm in a trash bag 140 miles out in the bush. Or in a office block in a file cabinet. the looting system is in a game. The game starts with you poor and @%$*#!ty... and over time you get better stuff.

yeah problem is they want  "basic tier tools"  craftable  what they can use ..  plastic ?  would be sub optimal early

maybe rusty scrap tools froms crap iron instead stones  but honestly they reworked loot completely in a19 by this ....immersion of stone shovel in box is minor issue that can be  solved later easily the big part is to balance loot progression so it feels like progress  and not day 50 with stone axe

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

lol .. yeah he have quite holes in knowledge about a16+  ... but point is right ... blunderbuss ammo is very easy to craft and unless iam msitaken doesnt require workbench ( didnt even have to craft  any myself ... it drops  together with all those blunders early ( day  1  pistol  + club  still works better tho)

 

[RipClaw]

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

Unless you play a modified version. I think in the Darkness Falls Mod there is a Tool & Die Set.

 

[alanea]

Unless you play a modified version. I think in the Darkness Falls Mod there is a Tool & Die Set.

well  if you play one of those big mods reworking 75%  game then you should stay away from discussion about current alpha i guess

Tool & Die  is gone  already for  a17 a18 a19 and judging something based on modded experience would be .....

 

[RipClaw]

well  if you play one of those big mods reworking 75%  game then you should stay away from discussion about current alpha i guess

Tool & Die  is gone  already for  a17 a18 a19 and judging something based on modded experience would be .....

Personally I do not play mods but I know some mods from streams. I can understand that players can easily confuse mods and vanilla.

 

[Zombull]

As much as I understand the reasons for it, this still doesn't feel great. Not once I've made a forge and am rocking my own level 2 or 3 iron tools.
 

 

[RipClaw]

As much as I understand the reasons for it, this still doesn't feel great. Not once I've made a forge and am rocking my own level 2 or 3 iron tools.

Since you are apparently not satisfied with the current loot, how about installing a modlet that changes that ?

There is a modlet called "Fawk Loot All" at Nexusmods. It changes the loot tables.

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1004?tab=files

 

[meganoth]

Since you are apparently not satisfied with the current loot, how about installing a modlet that changes that ?

There is a modlet called "Fawk Loot All" at Nexusmods. It changes the loot tables.

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1004?tab=files

I don't know, he seems more disappointed with the low-quality iron tools not being better than the stone stuff. A change of the loot tables won't fix that problem

 

[blkdeath75]

Read a few posts on the first page and it turned to bickering...

Here's my 2 cents.

Played this game a LOT. Finding level 6 stone spears and axes before finding a pistol/shottie is a bit of a stretch especially considering I have already accumulated 100's of rounds for each already(9mm/7.62/shotgun shells).

I of course went straight into lucky looter(4/5) as it was a fresh start, but no joy

No iron tools to be seen anywhere, even though I have found MORE forged iron/steel than I ever have in a18 pre crucible(I'm sitting at 48/57 pieces right now).

Was able to find a wrench/hammer after a long while but not forever(first 5 days?)

My take? I believe the early game loot(i.e. Iron tools and weapons/pistols/dbl. barrel) should be a bit easier to find. If you want more crafting, make the crafted items the high end loot for end game. Balances out a bit more. Crafted end game firearms/Armor AFTER you have become a master of your art... my honest opinion

 

[RipClaw]

I of course went straight into lucky looter(4/5) as it was a fresh start, but no joy

Check out the description of Lucky Looter. This perk now works differently than in A18. It increases your gamestage by a percentage instead of a fixed value.
Eye Candy and the Lucky Looter glasses are better in the early game.

 

[blkdeath75]

Check out the description of Lucky Looter. This perk now works differently than in A18. It increases your gamestage by a percentage instead of a fixed value.
Eye Candy and the Lucky Looter glasses are better in the early game.

I figured this was why I was scoring level 6 stone axes and spears.....nice to have but all it is is durability...they dont hit harder to my knowledge.

 

[Zombull]

Don't read into my comment. Just because I have feedback to provide doesn't mean I'm dissatisfied with the game. The game is a work in progress. Pretty sure the devs want to know how players experience it.

The linearly progressing loot would probably "feel" better if tools weren't infinitely repairable.

Also I'd try removing the stone tier from loot tables and add a high-end-loot-only titanium tier and only it would be infinitely repairable.

 

[meganoth]

I figured this was why I was scoring level 6 stone axes and spears.....nice to have but all it is is durability...they dont hit harder to my knowledge.

Where does this false rumor come from? Q1 to Q6 stone axe or spear is 50% more damage. And that's even without putting any mods into it.

Just like higher tier weapons and tools (i.e. iron and steel axes and spears), the only difference is that higher tiers also have random variance too.