PC So was the point of A19 to get rid of "Realism"?

[Kalen]

keep in mind game have  200  levels   lets call it days as  level per day is  +-  fiting to looting playstyle

a17/18  give you  99,99%  items  before day  100   and like  90%  on first week  if you went perc  and actively looted    everything top tier  Q5-Q6 after   2-3  weeks  was   100%  normal  giving you almost all loot before you finished 10%  making  90%  pointless xp grind  thats what TFP wanted stop

You're conflating two issues:  Chance of a good item and frequency of a good item.   You can have 100% random loot but still turn down the frequency of good items.   A17/A18 wasn't great for looting because of the frequency of good items.... not because of the possibility of good items, IMO.   A19 isn't great because of the zero possibility of good items at early GS, again IMO.

When you have no possibility, you get people that purposely don't loot certain containers for fear of "wasting" them.   That's not good for the game, IMO.   Have the chance, make it really small, and people loot with hope.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

When you have no possibility, you get people that purposely don't loot certain containers for fear of "wasting" them.   That's not good for the game, IMO.   Have the chance, make it really small, and people loot with hope.

I think that sums up the issue concisely... at least for me. This is what I am experiencing.
It's not completely horrible, but I feel like it's a reverse LBD,.. IBI. Improvement by ignorance.

 

[Xtrakicking]

I think that sums up the issue concisely... at least for me. This is what I am experiencing.
It's not completely horrible, but I feel like it's a reverse LBD,.. IBI. Improvement by ignorance.

100% agreed. It's been my experience too.

 

[meganoth]

You're conflating two issues:  Chance of a good item and frequency of a good item.   You can have 100% random loot but still turn down the frequency of good items.   A17/A18 wasn't great for looting because of the frequency of good items.... not because of the possibility of good items, IMO.   A19 isn't great because of the zero possibility of good items at early GS, again IMO.

When you have no possibility, you get people that purposely don't loot certain containers for fear of "wasting" them.   That's not good for the game, IMO.   Have the chance, make it really small, and people loot with hope.

That experiment would interest me as well. Lets assume the chance is so low that you would find a tier1 weapon in early game once every 5 playthroughs. That to me would be seldom. Would you be okay with this number?

If yes, would people who are now not looting the ammo boxes change their attitude? I doubt it somewhat. Because it seems to be too small a change in day to day practice

 

[Kalen]

That experiment would interest me as well. Lets assume the chance is so low that you would find a tier1 weapon in early game once every 5 playthroughs. That to me would be seldom. Would you be okay with this number?

If yes, would people who are now not looting the ammo boxes change their attitude? I doubt it somewhat. Because it seems to be too small a change in day to day practice

I feel like that is a reasonable number.   But, I also don't feel quite as strongly about as others in these multiple threads.   I already loot everything I can find... so I may not be the best example to use.

 

[alanea]

You're conflating two issues:  Chance of a good item and frequency of a good item.   You can have 100% random loot but still turn down the frequency of good items.   A17/A18 wasn't great for looting because of the frequency of good items.... not because of the possibility of good items, IMO.   A19 isn't great because of the zero possibility of good items at early GS, again IMO.

problem is that possibility isnt  zero

depends of your definition ...  while i didnt see Q6 m60 first week  i dropped 

Q6 pistol on  day 4  from gunsafe

q3 desert vulture on second week

q5 iron shovel on day  two ( with candy tho)

atleast  5x Q6 wrench before day 14  (first before first horde)

its hard to tell whats good item most people is like "  meh just iron shovel" sure its not endgame stuff you gonna keep ... but its  huge upgrade over some crap stone shovelc ..q6pistol  for rfirst horde ?  sure smg would be better .... but its basically god item

while its possible that q5 q6 " top tier"  is locked (or at very small chance) you can drop  Q1quite easily  during first week ( had  4+  during first horde)

When you have no possibility, you get people that purposely don't loot certain containers for fear of "wasting" them.   That's not good for the game, IMO.   Have the chance, make it really small, and people loot with hope.

 chance always exist  .. its just small and turned into zero by not even trying to loot but  its hard to explain such stuff to people who even dont realize loot will respawn before they reach " gamestage they see as worthy" anyway

some people are so spoiled by shooting zombies by q6 ak  and diging with q6   steel tools  on first days  that they will bash every  version not allowing them to do it  they dont care  if is chance 0  or just small TFP took that feeling of being OP  from beginning  from them  instead they are  feeling weak .. forced to use melee ... bows .. primitive tools  after being spoiled by a17 a18  insanity

it doesnt matter luckily those people are minority

majority  likes new system and progression  and just have some complaints on specific areas (like primitive tools in sealed chests)

you can be sure this wont be solved by  gibing iron /steel tools/m60  into every sealed container they can  just add  more immersive stuff like ammo  ... scrap =broken weapon

rusty crap tools with stats like  stone ones and similar stuff

TFP think there should be progression to   get people through  tiers .. so there will be progression  ,, they never back off main ideas like this there was shi* storm after

LBD

uncraftable top tier

demolishers

zombie ai

vehicle bloodmoon

undetected bases  at sky /bedrock

diging zombies

auger nerf

hunger in a17

....  and probably enought more to fill 5 pages

but judge  yourself  what complains changed ... they have rock solid vision and will continue progression building on current progression regardless of cry topics around  .. likely solving minor issues that bother most  but in their vision  ... top tier items shouldnt be a thing early

 

[Kalen]

problem is that possibility isnt  zero

Except that it is zero.... look in the xml and you will see that

    <lootprobtemplate name="ProbT1">
        <loot level="0,9" prob="0"/>
        <loot level="10,12" prob="0.04"/>
        <loot level="13,14" prob="0.04"/>

Probability of a T1 item is 0 from GS 0-9

Q6 pistol on  day 4  from gunsafe

Q6 can't drop until GS 110.  Not sure how you got a GS that high by day 4

Again, from the xml

<!-- QL4 starts at 50, QL5 at 80, QL6 at 110 -->

You can also check out

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdvwJZQG8RxbQi-G0fQPx5Kr3pEddBcJK2kYy86OpPk/edit#gid=603484266

 

[alanea]

Except that it is zero.... look in the xml and you will see that

    <lootprobtemplate name="ProbT1">
        <loot level="0,9" prob="0"/>
        <loot level="10,12" prob="0.04"/>
        <loot level="13,14" prob="0.04"/>

Probability of a T1 item is 0 from GS 0-9

Q6 can't drop until GS 110.  Not sure how you got a GS that high by day 4

Again, from the xml

<!-- QL4 starts at 50, QL5 at 80, QL6 at 110 -->

You can also check out

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QdvwJZQG8RxbQi-G0fQPx5Kr3pEddBcJK2kYy86OpPk/edit#gid=603484266

either we understand it wrong  or  it doesnt work as supposed

iam at day  30+  in  a19  with gs somewhere between 60 and 80  yet i seen tons of  q6 not to mention q5

since i  throw away atleast  3  q6  wrenches   because they were worse than my q6 wrench ...  then iam quite sure everyone have same experience  not to mention numberless q6 padded armor  that just piss you by costing  150dukes despite being q6

if it worked as xml say  then  we wouldnt see any  non primitive Q5/6  in first few weeks

on other side  padded armor/wrench/wood club/pistol  are all lowest tier soo maybe they all count as primitive?

why i had  two q6 baseball bat by second horde .. sadly cant remember source of those maybe  some loot have modified GS after all ?   airdrop ? zombie loot?

- wrenches drop  from sinks from day 1

actually there isnt much to tell about this shady stuff ... but go play  30  days (definitely not 110 gamestage) and then tell me ho wmany " non primitive tool" Q6  you have   .. people even make complaints about q6 being  too common in a19 and nope  not all of those are stone shovels or blunderbusses

ic ould agree on higher stuff tho .... there definitely seems to be  hard limit to high tier stuff above Q3

 

[Kalen]

either we understand it wrong  or  it doesnt work as supposed

iam at day  30+  in  a19  with gs somewhere between 60 and 80  yet i seen tons of  q6 not to mention q5

since i  throw away atleast  3  q6  wrenches   because they were worse than my q6 wrench ...  then iam quite sure everyone have same experience  not to mention numberless q6 padded armor  that just piss you by costing  150dukes despite being q6

if it worked as xml say  then  we wouldnt see any  non primitive Q5/6  in first few weeks

While I may not completely understand the XML (though I think I do), that spreadsheet really doesn't leave any room for doubt.   I'm not sure why you are getting so many high level items, but I'm on day 35 with a GS of 110 and I've found about 7-10 Q6 items in total, so I certainly have no had the same experience as you have.

 

[alanea]

While I may not completely understand the XML (though I think I do), that spreadsheet really doesn't leave any room for doubt.   I'm not sure why you are getting so many high level items, but I'm on day 35 with a GS of 110 and I've found about 7-10 Q6 items in total, so I certainly have no had the same experience as you have.

well playstyles differ alot  but i bet you didnt looted  all  7-10  last night ... i disagree with people complaining about overflow as well ... it  may be  15-20  for me  but its far from "every poi" as some call it

sure  it seems  clear how xml works  but reality is clearly different  as people definitely droping q5/q6 before stated gamestage

but dont  believe me   check  our beloved youtubers

https://youtu.be/FVdW6Q-E-H0?t=2800 

highest gamestage is  79

<!-- QL4 starts at 50, QL5 at 80, QL6 at 110 -->

gameedged have two q5 non primitive on toolbelt

https://youtu.be/FVdW6Q-E-H0?t=1939

here you can see his Q6 shovel (missed how he got it ... but traders /quests  dont give q6 )

so yeah 

A) loot is bugged in some way/affected by something else

B) we are all halucinating  some early Q6 items

 

[Kalen]

well playstyles differ alot  but i bet you didnt loored  all  7-10  last night ... i disagree with people complaining about overflow as well ... it  may be  15-20  for me  but ots far from "every poi" as some call it

My apologies, I was very wrong.... I have 20-30 Q6 items (just went through my storage to check).  Most of them are primitive items which is probably why I wasn't thinking of them.  Of the 6 Q6 stuff I use (auger, military chest and leg, steel axe, wooden bow, impact driver) 4 of them were a reward for a trader quest (the armor, auger and I just got the impact driver 10 minutes ago).   The axe I looted recently and the bow I've had for a while.

 

[katarynna]

I am on day 7 and have gotten 2 q6 scrap armor pieces, and several q6 cloth armor pieces, as well as q6 stone tools. I can confirm that q6 drops items drop from loot early, since I looted all of those. None were quest rewards. They may not be great, but they are looted q6 in the first week.

 

[Kalen]

I am on day 7 and have gotten 2 t6 scrap armor pieces, and several t6 cloth armor pieces, as well as q6 stone tools. I can confirm that t6 drops items drop from loot early, since I looted all of those. None were quest rewards. They may not be great, but they are looted t6 in the first week.

Weird.... what is your GS?

 

[katarynna]

I meant q6, not t6, lol. Sleepy-posting is tough.

My current gs is 30, playing with 90 minute days.

 

[theFlu]

Are the padded & scrap armors Tier 1 or Tier 0?

 

[Kalen]

Are the padded & scrap armors Tier 1 or Tier 0?

0

<lootgroup name="groupArmorT0" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT0">
    <item name="armorClothPants"/>
    <item name="armorClothJacket"/>
    <item name="armorClothBoots"/>
    <item name="armorClothGloves"/>
    <item name="armorClothHat"/>
    <item name="armorScrapHelmet"/>
    <item name="armorScrapChest"/>
    <item name="armorScrapGloves"/>
    <item name="armorScrapLegs"/>
    <item name="armorScrapBoots"/>
</lootgroup>

 

[theFlu]

Point of that socratic question was, you're looking at ProbT1, aren't the Q levels separate for the tiers => lower Tier things drop in higher qualities in earlier GS..?

 

[katarynna]

Q6 can't drop until GS 110.  Not sure how you got a GS that high by day 4

Again, from the xml

<!-- QL4 starts at 50, QL5 at 80, QL6 at 110 -->

Someone stated you could not get q6 items until gs 110. They may be tier 0, but q6 items do drop even in the first week.

 

[Kalen]

Point of that socratic question was, you're looking at ProbT1, aren't the Q levels separate for the tiers => lower Tier things drop in higher qualities in earlier GS..?

Maybe?   There are a lot of different quality templates in loot.xml.   Will take some digging to unravel it, but clearly, it's more complicated.

 

[alanea]

Someone stated you could not get q6 items until gs 110. They may be tier 0, but q6 items do drop even in the first week.

q6 t0 armor  should drop  from lvl  20 (dont ask me why is half loot.xml based on gamestage and rest on lvl lol )

but any iron tools ,non primitive weapons or even wrenches shouldnt  drop  yill gs 110 acording to xml  and we  all know this doesnt reflect reality other  things drop as well  (scrap/padded q6 armors are extremely common tho)