PC It's all gone wrong, terribly wrong.

[Sal]

Why do you care about what the tutorial highlights at all?

I don't care.  I was only using that small aspect as an example to the point you seemed to have missed and took it too literal.

TFP didn't promise perpetual happiness for 20$

I never suggested they did.

They did, however, promise features years ago that are still not in the game.

How about showing some gratitude for 9 years of a game held fresh by updates.

I did. By buying the game 5x and continuing to play it.  I don't owe anything more than that.

Make no mistake, if they just had made a beta after the alpha you consider best and released that then the chance that you would still play this game at all would be pretty low.

Not sure about that. There are still plenty of people who play on console and that hasn't been updated in what 5-6 years.  But I get your point.

 

[meganoth]

I don't care.  I was only using that small aspect as an example to the point you seemed to have missed and took it too literal.

Ok. I see that that feature is only for newbies. But if you want to bring it as an example of simplification of the game it doesn't work well. Because a tutorial is supposed to be simple and it does not simplify the game for veterans at all. With or without the signs the tutorial was always a trivial job for a veteran.

I never suggested they did.

They did, however, promise features years ago that are still not in the game.

If you don't name those features I can't comment on that. Are you talking about VR? 

You also can't mean bandits, right? Development takes time.

I did. By buying the game 5x and continuing to play it.  I don't owe anything more than that.

I don't mean to say that you owe them anything. You just said "then I would do something to show a bit of gratitude" as if they owed you as a veteran player something. Is there a fine line between gratitude that leads to a demand for features and owing that I don't see?

I say veteran players did get a very good deal from this game, but it was always a quid pro quo, both sides get something valuable out of it. When you eventually walk away from this game I would guess that neither you nor the pimps can claim that there are outstanding debts.

Continuing to play the game is what you want to do yourself, it isn't really a service you are doing for the pimps. They will surely thank you if you ask them, because they are polite (sometimes ). But it is a "thank you" without an implied debt.

There is a large difference between paying monthly for a service game and playing a game for a long time without any costs.

Not sure about that. There are still plenty of people who play on console and that hasn't been updated in what 5-6 years.  But I get your point.

Good point as well, console shows that some diehards would still be playing even if the game had released years ago. Though the current influx of console players comes from the xbox store, before that the forum was very very silent on the console side. Only that that isn't a good measure of how many people still play it there.

 

[Matt115]

that. Are you talking about VR? 

You also can't mean bandits, right? Development takes time.

Fun fact : there is nothing about bandits in Kickstarter campain but... there is about mode about playing as zombie but nobody remember about that

Play solo, coop or multiplayer in our unique Zombie Nomad Mode be a human, a bandit or a zombie for a no rules experience. 

 

[Jinx_DG]

this is good example how to do this right.

This is an example of how YOU would do it, not how to do it right. Your vision of 7DTD is just that, your vision and is the right way in your mind only. 

but firefighter axe need so many hit's too kill zombie?

The axe is suppose to be used on trees/wood things, not zombies, but when I do use it on zombies I have no problems axing them with one hit when it's to the head. Of course I've also gotten my butt kicked while axing them too, so.....

No Roland... 7dtd is easy game.  they can find trader very easy and do quest very easy. 7dtd is very fast "learn to play" . and "play on harder setting" hm... here is not solution. Why? zombies are just bulletsponges. Ok i understand why start gun i RE2 need a lot of bullets on normal difficuty to kill zombie - just read this gun decription (it's weak but small pistol). I undestand why stone weapons are weak. okay i undestand that - but firefighter axe need so many hit's too kill zombie?  ( i know about sledgehammer but...  damn sledgehammer should one hit kill spider zombie too) - no more room is good example what i mean - you can one hit kill every zombie using gun except soldiers ( one hand melee is terrible weak but two hand is usually 1 hit kill too) but it's hard - why? infection is rly easy to get, zombie children are so small and fast, number of zombie is big and soldiers zombie need a lot of bullets etc. Yes i know it's not sandbox and zombie limits in 7dtd.  But... this is good example how to do this right. I know it's too late. Just i hope it will be done better in 7dtd 2 . But new 7dtd will released probablymaybe after 10 - 15 years. Damn,..... this sounds so deppresing

You lost me after firefighter axe. Clarification is needed. 

 

[Jinx_DG]

Well that depends on your religion .

Oops wrong forum.

Way back in 11th grade, there was a chalkboard next to the door in one of my classrooms, and as I was leaving I wrote on it: Living means dying, Dying means death, but Being is Hell. 

I got sent to one session of therapy for that.  Unfortunately, mother didn't like the "I feel" statements the therapist suggested I use hence only the one session. Mother then told me..... 

Why are we here, just to suffer?

Depends on which personality I ask.....

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

"7 Days to Die does offer a struggle to everyone who hasn't optimized it out of their game by rushing"

As the game is designed it is made for more than just one playtrough. And i am sure TFP did aim for that aswell.

So what are we supposed to do? Play bad on purpose? Even if you don´t min/max and rush there is not really a struggle. Even for people who are new but played other survival games there is a lack of struggle after the first playtrough.

There is a reason that pretty much every overhaul mod makes the game harder.

You always get out that argument that people rush. In a sandbox game where you have the option to do different playtroughs. Do you really expect people to play like it´s their first time every time they restart?

This game doesn´t live from people who play it for the first time. It would be dead regarding the playernumbers if that was the case. And people don´t buy a game that no one plays.

 

[Matt115]

You lost me after firefighter axe. Clarification is needed. 

firefighter axe was earlier that sledhammer

I mean was added earlier

so Firefighter axe was like sledhammer in early versions

 

[Matt115]

As the game is designed it is made for more than just one playtrough. And i am sure TFP did aim for that aswell.

So what are we supposed to do? Play bad on purpose? Even if you don´t min/max and rush there is not really a struggle. Even for people who are new but played other survival games there is a lack of struggle after the first playtrough.

There is a reason that pretty much every overhaul mod makes the game harder.

You always get out that argument that people rush. In a sandbox game where you have the option to do different playtroughs. Do you really expect people to play like it´s their first time every time they restart?

This game doesn´t live from people who play it for the first time. It would be dead regarding the playernumbers if that was the case. And people don´t buy a game that no one plays.

"So what are we supposed to do?" Diffrent builds i guess - one time shotgun and spear another time MG and sledgehammer

 

[Jinx_DG]

There is a reason that pretty much every overhaul mod makes the game harder.

Harder is perspective. Define harder in relation to the overhaul mods please. Zed HP? Crafting? Resource gathering? ect... 

DF does have higher hp zeds, but it also gives you ways to kill them.  UL is more resource grindy imo, which could be seen as "harder".  War3zuk is just.... wrong from what I've seen of it. WoT am currently watching a playthrough, but nothing "harder" about it so far. All of these overhauls started as a player "fixing" what they didn't like about their current alpha. They were not created to make the game "harder", but to someone who is not familiar with them they can be, just as vanilla is to those unfamiliar with it. 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

"So what are we supposed to do?" Diffrent builds i guess - one time shotgun and spear another time MG and sledgehammer

That doesn´t help, playing with another weapon doesn´t make me a new player again and it also doesn´t add any more struggle. Switching from Shotgun to MG just means you need different ressources for ammo for example. 

"Rushing everyting is ruining your gameplay" is an overused phrase to end a discussion around here. And then comes the argument that all the balance is done for first timers. Wich i can understand, but a game that lives from replayability should consider long term players also. And not just tell them "don´t rush"

 

[Roland]

As the game is designed it is made for more than just one playtrough. And i am sure TFP did aim for that aswell.

So what are we supposed to do? Play bad on purpose? Even if you don´t min/max and rush there is not really a struggle. Even for people who are new but played other survival games there is a lack of struggle after the first playtrough.

There is a reason that pretty much every overhaul mod makes the game harder.

You always get out that argument that people rush. In a sandbox game where you have the option to do different playtroughs. Do you really expect people to play like it´s their first time every time they restart?

This game doesn´t live from people who play it for the first time. It would be dead regarding the playernumbers if that was the case. And people don´t buy a game that no one plays.

I expect people to play in a way that is fun for them and brings them enjoyment. The game design allows people to rush and many do and are perfectly happy doing it and I have no problem with that. I'm glad they can rush and I'm glad they enjoy the game playing in a way that entertains them.

Other people rush but then hate that gameplay loop but they still do it. They want the game changed to suit them which is fine for them to ask but until the game is changed for them (or if it never is changed for them) their options are to 1) Put the game away 2) keep playing in a way that is unfun 3) mod the game to their liking 4) Change how they play.

I really don't care whether someone rushes or not as long as they are happy. If they are unhappy and complaining then, yes, I'm going to bring out the argument that rushing is ruining their experience and that they should stop doing it until the game design changes to prevent rushing or they should find a mod that helps them.

So do I expect people to play like its their first time every time? Of course not. That is definitely not what I have been saying. Even though I impose limits on myself I definitely don't play like its my first time. 

Fact: If you limit yourself to one quest a day and use only wood for the first two horde nights and then cobblestone for the next two and then finally move to concrete, you are going to experience more of a survival struggle gameplay loop than you will by spamming multiple quests a day and rushing to concrete by Day 7. 

Do what you want and keep spamming quests and rushing concrete bases and whatever else people do to become 10x more powerful than the game's difficulty progression as quickly as possible and if the result is fun then fantastic. If it isn't and you feel like the survival struggle is gone and you wish it was there then either mod the game or limit yourself until/if the devs change the rules to prevent people from outpacing the game.

 

[Matt115]

That doesn´t help, playing with another weapon doesn´t make me a new player again and it also doesn´t add any more struggle. Switching from Shotgun to MG just means you need different ressources for ammo for example. 

Well there no too many options how make this in 7dtd. I will give example :  increase number of biomes and for example snow biom will be on most maps , but in another game you will have mostly desert etc. would help this same more zombie types etc but... more biom = less performance and that could be problem in 8 player sitauation. So what can be done? Honestly... wait for 7dtd 2. I'm not joking - 7dtd is like M&B -  in orginal M&b there is not so many option, warband have much more but still... a lot of things is missing. Bannerlord is "final form" how M&B should looks like. So.... 7dtd series need time to be "replayable" for veterans

I expect people to play in a way that is fun for them and brings them enjoyment. The game design allows people to rush and many do and are perfectly happy doing it and I have no problem with that. I'm glad they can rush and I'm glad they enjoy the game playing in a way that entertains them.

Other people rush but then hate that gameplay loop but they still do it. They want the game changed to suit them which is fine for them to ask but until the game is changed for them (or if it never is changed for them) their options are to 1) Put the game away 2) keep playing in a way that is unfun 3) mod the game to their liking 4) Change how they play.

I really don't care whether someone rushes or not as long as they are happy. If they are unhappy and complaining then, yes, I'm going to bring out the argument that rushing is ruining their experience and that they should stop doing it until the game design changes to prevent rushing or they should find a mod that helps them.

So do I expect people to play like its their first time every time? Of course not. That is definitely not what I have been saying. Even though I impose limits on myself I definitely don't play like its my first time. 

Fact: If you limit yourself to one quest a day and use only wood for the first two horde nights and then cobblestone for the next two and then finally move to concrete, you are going to experience more of a survival struggle gameplay loop than you will by spamming multiple quests a day and rushing to concrete by Day 7. 

Do what you want and keep spamming quests and rushing concrete bases and whatever else people do to become 10x more powerful than the game's difficulty progression as quickly as possible and if the result is fun then fantastic. If it isn't and you feel like the survival struggle is gone and you wish it was there then either mod the game or limit yourself until/if the devs change the rules to prevent people from outpacing the game.

Hm... Well - even small things like-  mostly snow or mostly desert map can be game changer

 

[hotpoon]

Fall damage is still there, but instead of outright killing zombies (which would be OP) the damage is one third of zombies health. That is quite good for a passive measure that also can be used to collect zombies for grenade or molotov bombardement and seriously slows them down in coming at you.

If I can die from falling, so should zombies, even without spikes, but ESPECIALLY after going through the massive effort of digging the trench and chopping down a forest for the wood of the spikes, and then having to go and repair all the spikes afterward. 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@hotpoon Fall damage beeing deadly for zombies makes bloodmoon a joke. You could just sit there and watch them falling to death. You just need to make sure they fall high enough. That´s it. No more danger during horde night. Not even repairs needed.

 

[playlessNamer]

@hotpoon Fall damage beeing deadly for zombies makes bloodmoon a joke.

Not "makes" it a joke, it is a joke. There are dozens of ways to afk and ringelrosi them. Even a proper facetank base with 6-8 electric fence, 10-12 dartraps and 1-2 blades let you afk everything without any cheese.

The only solution is: MAKE ZOMBIES STUPID AGAIN!

Then they are dangerous when the just randomly attack everthing everywhere.

 

[RipClaw]

That´s it. No more danger during horde night. Not even repairs needed.

Oh, you mean something like in this POI ? You only have to remove one block and chill the rest of the night. And thanks to the magic of quests you can make all the damage disappear.


 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@playlessNamer Yeah, but if they die from falling you literally just need to dig a hole. No ressources, traps, ammo or anything else needed and you don´t need to repair anything at all.

@RipClaw 99% sure that this will be made impossible if they know about it. Wich they now do propably. 

 

[RipClaw]

99% sure that this will be made impossible if they know about it. Wich they now do propably. 

This is by far not the only POI that can be abused in this way. Almost every POI that is made of concrete is suitable for this. Most of the time you only have to remove a few blocks to prevent zombies from coming to you. The effort is not even remotely as big as digging a shaft down to the bedrock.

The benefit of building your own horde base from scratch is currently so small that some players don't build one anymore. They take over a POI and punch a few holes in the roof. During the horde they shoot down or throw Molotovs or grenades at the zombies.

 

[meganoth]

@RipClaw 99% sure that this will be made impossible if they know about it. Wich they now do propably. 

I'm not so sure. There is no easy fix I can see apart from simply increasing block damage.

By the way, does that building still work as afk base at warrior or insane in later game?

Oh wait, one possible fix: Zombies could get an automatic increase to their block damage every few seconds the longer they live.

 

[RipClaw]

By the way, does that building still work as afk base at warrior or insane in later game?

The difficulty setting has no effect on block damage nor gamestage. 

I have just tested it. I had a Demolisher hit a block on Nomad difficulty and Insane difficulty. Both times he did exactly 500 HP damage per hit. And as far as the gamestage is concerned, you only have to take a look at the gamestages.xml file. The difficulty multiplier is set to a value of 1.2.

The only thing that is currently affected by the difficulty setting is what damage you do to zombies and what damage zombies do to you.