PC It's all gone wrong, terribly wrong.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Didn´t realize it´s so easy with POI´s tbh. Never used POI´s during bloodmoon except for the first horde sometimtes.

I'm not so sure. There is no easy fix I can see apart from simply increasing block damage.

By the way, does that building still work as afk base at warrior or insane in later game?

Oh wait, one possible fix: Zombies could get an automatic increase to their block damage every few seconds the longer they live.

That would punish people who build their own horde base way more. SP with more than 16 Z´s would basically become impossible with a self built horde base.

 

[Rotor]

I don't like zombie block damage as it is.  Let alone give them more hehe.  Actually I think it should diminish the longer they hit a block as the key losing flesh and bones.

 

[NoMan]

I don't like zombie block damage as it is.  Let alone give them more hehe.  Actually I think it should diminish the longer they hit a block as the key losing flesh and bones.

Leave block damage as is but have the zombies destroy themselves as they attack blocks. Oops, my rotten arms broke off, now I have to use my rotten face....

 

[meganoth]

Didn´t realize it´s so easy with POI´s tbh. Never used POI´s during bloodmoon except for the first horde sometimtes.

That would punish people who build their own horde base way more. SP with more than 16 Z´s would basically become impossible with a self built horde base.

Any change will basically "punish" or "reward" someone. Any difficulty increase will make some nonoptimal play option go away, in exchange for giving some difficulty to veterans. This is why such a change would better be limited to higher difficulties.

Even in SP I can make sure to kill most zombies and not let them be alive for 4 ingame hours on end. And if three of them escape my scrutiny and reach say double damage  after 4 hours that would effectually now be 19 instead of 16 zombies damagewise. 

But if all 16 reach double damage because you play an AFK base then something like the silo POI may be gone before horde night is over in late game.

RipClaw corrected me with the difficulty not having any influence on block damage, but I would still be interested to know how much of the silo would get thrashed by a late game horde. Sure, you can then use multiple POIs. But seriously you can also just mine for a week and build a big concrete block, not that much of a difference.

I also don't understand why TFP uses no block damage increase at higher difficulties. It doesn't need to be double or quadruple damage, even 50% more damage might already be enough for somewhat different results. 

I don't like zombie block damage as it is.  Let alone give them more hehe.  Actually I think it should diminish the longer they hit a block as the key losing flesh and bones.

The topic until now was that the struggle is gone because of rushing and now because of AFK-bases as well. THAT change would completely remove any chance for zombies to break into a POI or self-built horde base. Horde night as a pure shooting gallery

Is this just a random "because realism" comment or is the horde night too difficult for you at the moment?

 

[RipClaw]

I also don't understand why TFP uses no block damage increase at higher difficulties. It doesn't need to be double or quadruple damage, even 50% more damage might already be enough for somewhat different results. 

There is a option for block damage in the game settings under "Advanced". More specifically, one for the Blood Moon Night and one for the rest of the time. It is possible to set the block damage of the zombies from 25% up to 300% of the base value.

 

[Rotor]

Is this just a random "because realism" comment or is the horde night too difficult for you at the moment?

I do think I have a suspension of the whole realism thing.  But this one bit of flesh bugs me.

I guess for you super duper testers, go ape fecalmatter with your characters bare hands and find out how long it takes to go through each block difficulty.  Then pick each zombie and have them do the same.

If the numbers are about even or even just a hair over a player, I will just keep zombie block damage at 25% regular and 50% on horde nights.

Just don't take that option away from me.

My perception is that it is much higher.

 

[meganoth]

I do think I have a suspension of the whole realism thing.  But this one bit of flesh bugs me.

I guess for you super duper testers, go ape fecalmatter with your characters bare hands and find out how long it takes to go through each block difficulty.  Then pick each zombie and have them do the same.

There is nothing realistic about zombie block damage. As well as many player abilities. So comparing both is as useless as comparing Marvels Iron Man to Thor and asking who is more powerful or who would win? DUH, the answer is whomever the script writer wants to win.

 

[Rotor]

There is nothing realistic about zombie block damage. As well as many player abilities. So comparing both is as useless as comparing Marvels Iron Man to Thor and asking who is more powerful or who would win? DUH, the answer is whomever the script writer wants to win.

Well duh, never said it was.

I will voice against any "add more" suggestions .  

Just don't hard code the final solution.

 

[meganoth]

Well duh, never said it was.

Sorry, that paragraph about superduper testers was above my english grokking abilities. 

I will voice against any "add more" suggestions .  

So you are against "add more options" ?

Just don't hard code the final solution.

I'm not an employee of TFP, if that was directed at me.

 

[Matt115]

There is nothing realistic about zombie block damage. As well as many player abilities. So comparing both is as useless as comparing Marvels Iron Man to Thor and asking who is more powerful or who would win? DUH, the answer is whomever the script writer wants to win.

 a little bit  joke offtop but... nope. Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite have both Iron man and Thor - and who is going to win depends on player skill and balance. So no script writers here  But now hm.... well i think special "wall breaker" zombie would be good option during blood moon - no dmg into player? more chance of respawn of this type of zombie 

 

[Rotor]

Sorry, that paragraph about superduper testers was above my english grokking abilities. 

So you are against "add more options" ?

I'm not an employee of TFP, if that was directed at me.

It was humor attempt about those that like to do comparison in game, like when one guy made a  video about efficient mining, or noise and heat map correlations.  I consider them "super duper testers" that have more time and energy than moi.

I am not against more options, I am an against more zombie block damage.

Third was a general statement that if more zombie block damage is added, don't hard code it, so it can bet modded out.  Not that you would be doing it.

 

[meganoth]

It was humor attempt about those that like to do comparison in game, like when one guy made a  video about efficient mining, or noise and heat map correlations.  I consider them "super duper testers" that have more time and energy than moi.

I am not against more options, I am an against more zombie block damage.

Third was a general statement that if more zombie block damage is added, don't hard code it, so it can bet modded out.  Not that you would be doing it.

Why should they hard code it when they already have a separate setting for it? It just would be nice if the overall difficulty setting would be about more things than just the direct fighting with zombies.

Because I assume most users just increase that setting when they want it more difficult and often ignore everything else. A veteran user is vastly better at resource gathering and horde base building as a newbie, but the difficulty setting treats everyone the same.

My idea would be to have a settings menue like the graphics menue: You set a difficulty that changes sliders below, then you can change those sliders some more and difficulty above changes to "custom".

 

[Rotor]

My idea would be to have a settings menue like the graphics menue: You set a difficulty that changes sliders below, then you can change those sliders some more and difficulty above changes to "custom".

Okay, if it was expressed as such I misread, my bad.

This option already exist though.  That is how I run .25 and .50 damage.  Unless I am misreading that as well.

 

[meganoth]

Okay, if it was expressed as such I misread, my bad.

You didn't misread, I originally did not waste a single thought on implementation of any changes.

That idea came later.

This option already exist though.  That is how I run .25 and .50 damage.  Unless I am misreading that was well.

No, the option does not exist. You set block damage but as RipClaw above mentioned block damage is not changed with the difficulty setting at all. 

What I suggested would be a settings UI where you have a difficulty setting above and individual settings below. So you would have difficulty at "Adventurer" and below a "zombie damage against player" setting at "100%" (or 75%? Who cares).

If you now set difficulty to "Warrior" the "zombie damage against player" setting should change to display "150%" (or whatever else it is at warrior).

And if you now increase it to 175% the difficulty above should show "custom".

 

[Rotor]

Rgr,  

I would like option to reduce that particular damage regardless of difficulty.  Thank you.

Hell I will pay for the modlet that removes it .

I know we are no where near there, I am just preemptively counter suggesting.

 

[JCrook1028]

I would like option to reduce that particular damage regardless of difficulty.  Thank you.

You an already lower block damage without changing difficulty... It's in options. No mod needed.

 

[Rotor]

I will shut up now because I thought the proposal was to scale it up with game difficulty.  Like 25% would not be the same 25% in adventurer vs insane.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Any change will basically "punish" or "reward" someone. Any difficulty increase will make some nonoptimal play option go away, in exchange for giving some difficulty to veterans. This is why such a change would better be limited to higher difficulties.

Even in SP I can make sure to kill most zombies and not let them be alive for 4 ingame hours on end. And if three of them escape my scrutiny and reach say double damage  after 4 hours that would effectually now be 19 instead of 16 zombies damagewise. 

But if all 16 reach double damage because you play an AFK base then something like the silo POI may be gone before horde night is over in late game.

Well make that max zombies and you have a problem. Also one demolisher that explodes could get your base wrecked way faster. It also does a lot more to people who do melee as they kill Z´s way slower.

And sure changes can go either way. But making it harder for people who don´t cheese, in order to prevent cheesing is the wrong way imo.

 

[Roland]

But making it harder for people who don´t cheese, in order to prevent cheesing is the wrong way imo.

And this is all I was essentially saying as well but in regards to quests and building. TFP can make it harder for everyone in order to prevent those who rush questing and building or they can leave it alone and allow everyone to play as they will. Those who want more of a struggle can limit themselves much as people currently limit themselves on the type of base they design and choose not to build something they would deem "cheesy".

That being said, I am perfectly fine with TFP adding rules that limit any of this stuff that people do to stretch and warp the game into unnatural ways just to "win" a bit faster than anyone else they've read about online. I'm also fine with them adding top menu options that can give a spectrum of how stringent or lax those limitations might be.

I just think it is funny that some who lectured me that "Just don't do it" isn't a valid argument on one issue are using that exact sentiment about other issues...lol.

It's all the same thing. 7 Days to Die is a hybrid between game and sandbox and everyone has their pet features that are supported by one type or the other. If TFP changes things towards the game end of the spectrum by restricting and making rules then favorite sanboxish features will fade away and people will be angry. If TFP keeps or even moves things more towards the sandbox end of the spectrum which allows for people to choose their own objectives and restrictions, there will be people who want survival game rules enforced who will be disappointed that TFP has abandoned the survival genre.

 

[meganoth]

Well make that max zombies and you have a problem.

I assume you meant max horde night zombies.

If max zombies is too difficult for someone he shouldn't turn on max zombies but a lesser setting. There is already a setting in the game that is called "Insane" and there are people who won't survive 10 minutes playing it. Do those people really set the game to insane nevertheless and then complain they have a problem?

And wouldn't it be nice if there were an overall setting nobody could survive and one everyone could survive so that everyone could find a challenging setting inbetween?

At the moment there seem to be players who are too good (or maybe too cheesy) so that the game is too easy for them in any setting.

If you wanted to set max zombies in a game with my proposed change I would advise to turning horde night zombie speed down accordingly. This might prove an interesting game for Alpha16-lovers.

Also one demolisher that explodes could get your base wrecked way faster.

Who says demo explosions have to increase likewise? In XML this is already a separate setting from his hand damage.

It also does a lot more to people who do melee as they kill Z´s way slower.

SP players who melee might need stronger side walls, more redundancy and/or more turrets, I agree. Depending on how they fare at the moment and whether the feature would be on in all difficulties and whether initial damage of zombies was decreased or not they might need to turn down difficulty, or adapt their design.

Maybe you are overestimating the results of such a feature even for a melee base though. I have played what I assume to be a melee base as single player in A19. And there were always times where I could or even had to go on top of the base and take a look around. I did eliminate stragglers hitting on walls at that time.

Also I'm not sure if zombies stay in destruction mode for hours on end. Don't they retarget sometimes so they eventually appear in front of the club of the player?

And sure changes can go either way. But making it harder for people who don´t cheese, in order to prevent cheesing is the wrong way imo.

Well, difficulty doesn't need to change for the average case if initial damage to blocks is reduced to compensate for the higher damage of some of the zombies.

This feature could be an option you can turn off again, or preferably a setting that only starts to work at higher difficulties. And it should be something that can be changed in xml, anyway. 

I am a player who uses POIs for bases. I not only use POIs from the first day in a new game, I also use them as a base for my end-game horde base most of the time. I get new challenges that way fitting my idea into a pre-existing building. Since I have to compromise some things, it often makes it more challenging in the end than a fully self-made base. And I have a different horde base every time even when I use the same ideas as a previous base.

I would like a mode like this as well. I always build emergency exits, secondary holding postings, they rarely get used now. If I simply increase block damage I know they will almost always breach through the front where I fight them, possibly with this mode they would have surprises for me more often. Who knows?