PC is building pointless now?

[Laz Man]

Over simplification. There are also people that can adapt but decide it just isn't worth it, since any old POI will be just as effective. It comes down to cost/benefit. For me, personally, the cost of building and maintaining a base built from scratch is no longer worth the benefit I get from it.

That also will vary from person to person, my day 21 horde base wasnt simple for me and I found a ton of enjoyment from making it.

Here is a link if your interested.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?131780-LazMan-vs-Day-21-Horde&p=1050480#post1050480

 

[Jedo]

Over simplification. There are also people that can adapt but decide it just isn't worth it, since any old POI will be just as effective. It comes down to cost/benefit. For me, personally, the cost of building and maintaining a base built from scratch is no longer worth the benefit I get from it.

Some people just don't have that internal motivator to do what they want simply because they like doing it. In the end, maybe they never really liked it that much, so now they just take the easy way which always was available to them. Ah well.

 

[Kalen]

That also will vary from person to person, my day 21 horde base wasnt simple for me and I found a ton of enjoyment from making it.
Here is a link if your interested.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?131780-LazMan-vs-Day-21-Horde&p=1050480#post1050480

Thanks, I'd love to see more people's bases. In my current game I've decided to try building a base from scratch again as I do like to try different play styles. Just so far in A18 I've found the nomadic play style more rewarding.

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Some people just don't have that internal motivator to do what they want simply because they like doing it. In the end, maybe they never really liked it that much, so now they just take the easy way which always was available to them. Ah well.

It's got nothing to do with motivation.... it's simply as I stated: cost/benefit.

 

[Jedo]

It's got nothing to do with motivation.... it's simply as I stated: cost/benefit.

What exactly is the cost and the benefit which you have derived and should derive from building your own base in 7dtd?

 

[HungryZombie]

Thanks, I'd love to see more people's bases. In my current game I've decided to try building a base from scratch again as I do like to try different play styles. Just so far in A18 I've found the nomadic play style more rewarding.
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It's got nothing to do with motivation.... it's simply as I stated: cost/benefit.

You are drawing a distinction where none exists. cost/benefit can be a motivation. Motivation varies among humans. I'm not sure the point you are arguing. Is it your assertion that the game should force you into building a certain kind of base?

 

[Lightingfast29]

You got perks for it back in A15, it was also super quick to build which made it not seem as bad. Now its nerfed. Slow and Poor XP. Shame cause i enjoy building than just sitting there shooting the heck out of the same zombies. It gave the game extended playtime rather than just getting bored after 5 hours

Same why did they changed this?

 

[Ghostlight]

What exactly is the cost and the benefit which you have derived and should derive from building your own base in 7dtd?

Well for me at least....

Cost:

1) Time to design the base and fine-tune said design

2) Gathering the materials for it. Our design requires about 20,000 Concrete and 5,000 Steel; just for the super-structure; a lot more for the various traps etc

3) Time to build the thing

Benefit:

1) Fun. We love building and refining the design

2) Base kills most of the horde thus saving us ammo. We still spend 2000 to 3000 rounds per horde night (each) but it would be way more than that in a converted POI or simple box

3) Satisfaction that we are not exploiting the easy-to-exploit AI

No way I'd show my base on here or even describe how it works (it's a work of genius imho); TFP would add zombies to counter it if I did ;P

 

[Kattla]

Well for me at least....
Cost:

1) Time to design the base and fine-tune said design

2) Gathering the materials for it. Our design requires about 20,000 Concrete and 5,000 Steel; just for the super-structure; a lot more for the various traps etc

3) Time to build the thing

Benefit:

1) Fun. We love building and refining the design

2) Base kills most of the horde thus saving us ammo. We still spend 2000 to 3000 rounds per horde night (each) but it would be way more than that in a converted POI or simple box

3) Satisfaction that we are not exploiting the easy-to-exploit AI

No way I'd show my base on here or even describe how it works (it's a work of genius imho); TFP would add zombies to counter it if I did ;P

I wouldn't count on them to actually ADD zombies... But i wouldn't mind a couple more either.

 

[Kalen]

What exactly is the cost and the benefit which you have derived and should derive from building your own base in 7dtd?

I was going to answer, but Ghostlight sums up the cost and benefit almost exactly as I would have.

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You are drawing a distinction where none exists. cost/benefit can be a motivation. Motivation varies among humans. I'm not sure the point you are arguing. Is it your assertion that the game should force you into building a certain kind of base?

I'm not arguing anything... the question is whether or not base building is pointless. I'm just stating for me, while not pointless, its less rewarding than it used to be. I fully realize this is just my opinion and not everyone is going to feel the same way, which is fine. But the question was asked, so I gave my answer.

 

[Jedo]

I was going to answer, but Ghostlight sums up the cost and benefit almost exactly as I would have.

Cost: 1) Time to design the base and fine-tune said design

2) Gathering the materials for it. Our design requires about 20,000 Concrete and 5,000 Steel; just for the super-structure; a lot more for the various traps etc

3) Time to build the thing

Benefit:

1) Fun. We love building and refining the design

2) Base kills most of the horde thus saving us ammo. We still spend 2000 to 3000 rounds per horde night (each) but it would be way more than that in a converted POI or simple box

3) Satisfaction that we are not exploiting the easy-to-exploit AI

So which of the costs outweigh the benefits?

 

[Kalen]

So which of the costs outweigh the benefits?

I don't know.... I don't really assign a point system, I just know how it feels to me. Why are you so obsessed with someone feeling differently than you do?

 

[Jedo]

I don't know.... I don't really assign a point system, I just know how it feels to me. Why are you so obsessed with someone feeling differently than you do?

You brought up the fact that it is a cost/benefit thing, specifically against Laz Man's delineation and against my claims of lack of internal motivation. You seemed to want to justify yourself against those claims, disliking either of those characterizations. I'm just waiting for you to do it.

 

[Kalen]

You brought up the fact that it is a cost/benefit thing, specifically against Laz Man's delineation and against my claims of lack of internal motivation. You seemed to want to justify yourself against those claims, disliking either of those characterizations. I'm just waiting for you to do it.

Gotcha. Sorry, not playing that game.

 

[LordSos91]

community is giving up on building, i myself am getting tired of people wanting to be friends and doing no building. watching people toss their stone axe. use up my meds and food. expect me to keep them safe. not happening.

also if you think building is boring with nerfed xp, you can easily turn your block damage up and change that. even on nomad with 300x xp by day 14 horde night, they are breaking thru my walls and stuff. so is building pointless?? not as all its pointless to play with people who think building is pointless

 

[White-Gandalf]

My comparison between A18/17/16-- on building: down the hill

When we put all personal judgment aside and rely only on facts, it comes down to the fact, that till A16 i could build bases up to sizes that the game engine threw the towel with "too many vertices".

In A17 i do not have the ability to build even far similar that big. The game engine does drop the frame rates long before to unplayable levels (with which i mean below 20 fps). The biggest bases i could build in A17 are the same size as the smallest ever bases in A16.

In A18, the same principle applies, but again halved in size limit in relation to A17.

Thus, building at least became a lot more miniature.

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That said, there is some kind of build-in end goal to achieve: If the cultivated area gets so big that zombies cease to spawn on horde night despite doing everydays work at the base, i usually consider the game won. Since the funpimps reduced the size of the spawn area for horde nights, that goal keeps being achievable with higher alphas as it was with the lower ones.

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Gardening in A18 has become ugly. While it can be seen as a type of challenge to produce one single tile of gardening area out of a whole mountain of earth (in extreme contrast to A16 and A17, where you could build up to three gardening blocks out of one shovel of earth), the resulting blocks are simply ugly. They do not even blend in to the landscape.

You can't build such things like flower borders for pure aesthetics any more, since that would require you to scrap (real , not proverbial) mountains of landscape beforehand.

I used to finally fit the cultivated areas with flowers and yucca. Well: I will, of course, with A18, too. But for sure not with vanilla configs. As always the game needs thousands of corrections until it finally makes fun again. As with every alpha so long.

 

[Scyris]

You could say it was always pointless, as playing nomad style was always an option.But if you enjoy building then that's a good enough reason to do it.

Nomad doesn't really work, your going to need stations down to make things like ammo and such, so your going to always have to setup a base somewhere at least to use those stations.

Building is pointless if your trying to make a base to bunker down in, as this does not work in a17 or a18, the zombies will focus fire blocks with entire groups chewing though everything fast no matter what it is. The way to do it is to cheese the AI. or build in a way they are forced to go in one way, I like the church_sm_01 poi, build base near top of beams, block/remove back entrance, since its elevated 3 blocks up, the zombies will walk in the front door, and will never even hit the back or side walls at all. Inside the poi, you have a large open space once you clear the pews, your base is 9 blocks off the ground so a demolisher explosion even right under your base area will not hit it. Its also stable enough that if all the pillars that look like support are destroyed it will not collapse, as its the brick walls that is keeping it up, they'd have to knock out the 2 side walls entirely to collpase your base, which since the zombies generally ignore the side walls and the back wall will probally never happen.

 

[SickPuppy]

It was always pointless to build large bases when log spikes where around. What do u need a large base for when u can turn zombies into crawlers?

Now that's been removed plus the constant stream of zombies all night long, I've gone back to building bases and out smart zombie pathing. Easy? Sure. But making it efficient is still fun. I still go fight blood moon in the street once in awhile but all that mining for ammo isn't really my thing.

Building huge bases was never 'the' only way to play, it's still an option if you enjoy just like every other play style.

 

[RipClaw]

It was always pointless to build large bases when log spikes where around. What do u need a large base for when u can turn zombies into crawlers?
Now that's been removed plus the constant stream of zombies all night long, I've gone back to building bases and out smart zombie pathing. Easy? Sure. But making it efficient is still fun. I still go fight blood moon in the street once in awhile but all that mining for ammo isn't really my thing.

Building huge bases was never 'the' only way to play, it's still an option if you enjoy just like every other play style.

Building huge bases was certainly never the only way to play but it was always a lot of fun for me. You could also get somewhat creative with bases of this size. I also like to build compact efficient bases but these are more functional constructions.

 

[SickPuppy]

Building huge bases was certainly never the only way to play but it was always a lot of fun for me. You could also get somewhat creative with bases of this size. I also like to build compact efficient bases but these are more functional constructions.

I might've worded it badly but that's exactly what I meant to say.

Hearing a lot 'oh it's just looter/shooter now,' or this n that, but it's nonsense. There's different ways to play this game that caters to as many ppl as possible. I never used to build underground till zombies started digging, it's like avoiding all the fun the game's throwing at us. Now that demolishers are in the game and keep coming all night, I've ditched running and gunning in the street to start building bases again just to take on the building challenge.

I just don't get all this 'only one play style' ideology in 7dtd. All the AAA corridor/linear/non-destructible/loot-boxes/micro-transaction/cosmetic-filled/completed in 8hrs/absolute garbage out there and ppl think 7dtd is 'only one play style'...violently smh. If I was one of TFPs I wouldn't come anywhere near these forums nvm responding in a civilized manner.

 

[RipClaw]

I might've worded it badly but that's exactly what I meant to say.
Hearing a lot 'oh it's just looter/shooter now,' or this n that, but it's nonsense. There's different ways to play this game that caters to as many ppl as possible. I never used to build underground till zombies started digging, it's like avoiding all the fun the game's throwing at us. Now that demolishers are in the game and keep coming all night, I've ditched running and gunning in the street to start building bases again just to take on the building challenge.

I just don't get all this 'only one play style' ideology in 7dtd. All the AAA corridor/linear/non-destructible/loot-boxes/micro-transaction/cosmetic-filled/completed in 8hrs/absolute garbage out there and ppl think 7dtd is 'only one play style'...violently smh. If I was one of TFPs I wouldn't come anywhere near these forums nvm responding in a civilized manner.

Sure, 7 Days to die is not a Loot Shooter, but you have to admit that firearms in A17 and A18 have become much more important. In A16 I had my club and my crossbow and except for the sniper in the horde night I never used a firearm. Since A17 you find so many guns that you could equip a small army with them.

I don't like firearms. They always remind me of those silly shooter games where people do nothing else than running around and shooting. It's boring and unimaginative and I don't want that 7 days to die becomes such a game.

In A18 the M60 was introduced and now it seems to me that almost everyone is only looking for the M60 so they can be Rambo in the horde night. They shoot down at the zombies and throw some grenades and that's the whole defense. Not a very imaginative.

Many base builders I know are afraid of the demolisher. If he explodes then everything that is not steel will be destroyed. And if ten of them come at once then you can already fear the worst because even steel can only withstand a maximum of 4 explosions.

I'm still working on a defense against the demolisher where he won't explode and should get killed by traps. I don't want to use loops or other exploits to reach the goal if possible and I don't want to use firearms but only traps. I've had some ideas but no time to test them yet.