PC is building pointless now?

There's little point in building imo; whatever you build is gonna get wrecked and with sleepers and dungeon crawls lengthening loot times in poi's, who has the time until late game?

Not that this is a bad thing, it just IS a thing in my opinion.

 
What I think influences building even more are the levelgates in A17 and how weak tools are without mods.

If you can't find an iron tool you have to wait until level 20 to make your own iron tools. Working with stone tools is not fun.

You can only make steel tools from level 70 on and the auger and chainsaw from level 100 on. You can be lucky and find the tools in good quality early but compared to weapons you rarely find tools.

You also need the mods to be able to mine resources effectively. Without Grave Digger, Bunker Buster and Iron Breaker the tools are much slower.

But I have hope for A18. Not only are there no levelgates, I've seen Madmole post a model for a toolbox on Twitter. The hope is that it will contain tools and mods for the tools as well as the weapon bag will contain weapons and mods for the weapons.

 
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Most quests have tools among their rewards, it's pretty easy to end up with full metal tools early on.

 
Most quests have tools among their rewards, it's pretty easy to end up with full metal tools early on.
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The rewards are random. Therefore you often have to do several quests to get iron tools. I tried it and it took me 3 days of constant questing to get a pickaxe as a reward.

In addition, the tool alone is useless. If you can't repair it, the tool won't do you any good. Without a forge, you can't make forged iron for repair and whether the forge at the trader works is random. I can also buy forged iron from the trader but whether he has it in his assortment is also random.

In A16 I had a working forge on day 2 at the latest and was able to make and repair my own iron tools. I did not have to rely on luck but could achieve something with work.

 
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The rewards are random. Therefore you often have to do several quests to get iron tools. I tried it and it took me 3 days of constant questing to get a pickaxe as a reward.
In addition, the tool alone is useless. If you can't repair it, the tool won't do you any good. Without a forge, you can't make forged iron for repair and whether the forge works at the trader is random. I can also buy forged iron from the trader but whether he has it in his assortment is also random.

In A16 I had a working forge on day 2 at the latest and was able to make and repair my own iron tools. I did not have to rely on luck but could achieve something with work.
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I think it was A16's predictability that made TFP want to add more uncertainty to a players experience.

I also think allowing the player to chose what kind of experience they want to have (like Factorio for example) would be good for sales IMO.

 
There's little point in building imo; whatever you build is gonna get wrecked and with sleepers and dungeon crawls lengthening loot times in poi's, who has the time until late game?
Not that this is a bad thing, it just IS a thing in my opinion.
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Is that you opinion of what A18 will be like? That's probably true, but I need to see for myself.

In A17, I can speed loot 4 or 5 loot rooms a day, more if I'm not doing quests.

 
I love clearing zeds. No full looting until they're all dead.

A18? I'm optimistic. MM has back pedalled on most of the stuff I hated about A17, so that's a good sign.

 
I love clearing zeds. No full looting until they're all dead.
A18? I'm optimistic. MM has back pedalled on most of the stuff I hated about A17, so that's a good sign.
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On killing zombies IMO: If there was a game reason in killing zombies, I'd be right there with you. Even if it was to kill 100,000 zombies and no more zombies will show up. Even if it was a limited time (77 days for example).

As I'm currently into Role-playing the game, gratuitous killing doesn't make sense. In my game plot, the infinite zombies are from nearby Phoenix Arizona (1.5 million potential zombies).

 
Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.

...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

Starting over sucks now. :)

 
Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.
...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

Starting over sucks now. :)
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Yeah, starting over can be kinda grueling for sure, so with "dead is dead" I eventually added 20 skill points to my (Edit: Starter) mission. :)

I can easily role play that as my character was a somebody and knew some things before "Day 1".

Then, gaining exp by non-violence has more synergy than killing zombies. You can get iron tools pretty fast and focus on mining skills as mining is (A17) a great exp source. Then turn what you mined into more stuff and build things for even more exp.

 
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Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.
...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

Starting over sucks now. :)
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Damn straight. Find some eggs and meat. *scratches head* "There has to be something I can do with these". *kills some zombies* "EUREKA"!

 
Base building is fine. People are just freaking out for no reason.
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Its not, its changed and for the worst. Theres no reward system for building, which is the cooldown from Looting and shooting. Its why so many players are saying "Meh, Level 30 and ive already completed the game" Its soo boring to just loot and shoot with no reason.

This is why so many people complained about the new changes, it rewired the whole purpose of the game while leaving some core features of the game behind, Specifically building interest. Theyve made building more grindier and less entertaining

- - - Updated - - -

There's little point in building imo; whatever you build is gonna get wrecked and with sleepers and dungeon crawls lengthening loot times in poi's, who has the time until late game?
Not that this is a bad thing, it just IS a thing in my opinion.
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Concrete/Steel Exists, Guppy. I said previously, Building is the cooldown.

Like ion any game, You have a main quest and a side quest, Side quests are for focusing attention on more interesting, more relaxing things like building

 
Aren't they still the best source of XP? I'm trying to get to the point in the game where I have enough points to purchase basic skills that 10 year olds have, so that the real "beginning of the game" can begin.
...it's funny, because in previous alphas I always enjoyed restarting and playing from the beginning. Now though, first I have to spend 30 minutes doing the stupid quests, and then 3 days getting skill points so my character has the ability to do things that he was always able to do in previous alphas.

Starting over sucks now. :)
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Exactly, The game goes from "your a moron" to "your a slightly advantaged moron" to "Your a better moron than before" And still keeping that moron title above your head. You cant go faster than you already are, you cant mine quicker so you feel like youve accomplished something. Your still at the speed you were. It feels like a false reward.

 
The what, 9 months? of A17 has pushed my desire to build and create to new lows. I take over the closest POI to the initial trader I'm sent to. I fortify it as much as can be expected and then I find a disposable large POI for horde nights till I've collected enough cement and cobblestone from looting to build a murder corridor bunker. That's about the extent of my building. No more are there grand structures because each block of wall is a liability and drain on resources. Every row of traps that is not in the structural engineer zombie's path is a waste of time and effort. I actively seek to minimize the amount of routine maintenance and upkeep from concrete smashing zeds because that, in my opinion, is not fun. I'd rather spend my days doing quests and exploring the world than constantly banging on rocks to feed forges and cement mixers.

This is why we have multiple threads about people avoiding hordes all together because:

1) People do not want the XP due to the gamestage ramifications.

2) People do not want to be in the business of bullet farming.

3) People do not want to be in constant loop of repair and upgrade.

4) No tangible loot rewards from hordes, just an "xp penalty".

Yes, the player can turn hordes off but if hordes and AI were better designed, would we even need that?

 
Building is pointless if YOU dont find the need to make a use for it. In multiplayer, you can make a base to defend from raids and to survive the feral horde to gain XP

 
Building is pointless if YOU dont find the need to make a use for it. In multiplayer, you can make a base to defend from raids and to survive the feral horde to gain XP
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YYeah there are a lot of people who dont play multiplayer, sadly.

 
I loved the ability to build a solid base and sit back and let the base do the fighting for me. That's the kind of playstyle I enjoyed. I loved racing to dig out a death-pit base before the first blood moon, then sneaking around during the day to try to find items to create a self-sustaining farm.

Once my death-pit base was secure, I would build a more hands-on base where I could get face-to-face with horde night zombies IF I WANTED TO. There's no option now. The zombies WILL tear your base apart. They don't drop items anymore either. The dropping of items --for me as a builder-- helped because I enjoyed building early on instead of scavenging. Item-drops off of zombies who came by while I was building helped off-set the lack of items from not scavenging right away. Gaining levels via building was easier too, and --while frustrating-- learning to craft better items by crafting those items made in-game sense.

I'm not even going to go into the levelgates. RipClaw speaks about them perfectly.

They had a good system to balance out both playstyles before. Not so much now. Granted, I haven't played for a while but I'm seeing that 18 might be out soon and am hoping that some of the balance of both playstyles will return.

 
I believe building is still important because its extremely hard to make a horde base from a poi and survive on day 42 plus, also you dont have to worry about zombies spawning in your home when the claim box decays. I would say that underground building is dead. The zombies break threw blocks faster than a auger when they dig.

 
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I believe building is still important because its extremely hard to make a horde base from a poi and survive on day 42 plus, also you dont have to worry about zombies spawning in your home when the claim box decays.
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I also prefer to build the horde base from scratch. But I also noticed that the horde bases I have seen so far are much smaller than the ones I saw in A16.

would say that underground building is dead. The zombies break threw blocks like a auger when they dig.
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I wouldn't say it like that.

I have a crafting base of which a part is on the bedrock. Everything that generates heat is down there. It's so deep that the game even can't spawn screamers.

The aboveground entrance is surrounded by a trench filled with iron spikes. The entrance is via a drawbridge. So far I had no problems with zombies.

What unfortunately doesn't work anymore is to build an underground base just below the surface with a hatch and a ladder to access it.

 
I wouldn't say it like that.

I have a crafting base of which a part is on the bedrock. Everything that generates heat is down there. It's so deep that the game even can't spawn screamers.

The aboveground entrance is surrounded by a trench filled with iron spikes. The entrance is via a drawbridge. So far I had no problems with zombies.

What unfortunately doesn't work anymore is to build an underground base just below the surface with a hatch and a ladder to access it.
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I have a crafting base built about 25 blocks deep, far above bedrock. Naturally it attracts screamers, but they all get massacred by rings of alternating concrete and spike traps on the surface.

The concrete is overkill, cobblestone or even wood might work as well, but the spike traps have to be repaired from time to time. Size of the surface killzone is just a little bigger than the footprint of the base below and it seems to be enough.

 
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