PC Do you hate crafting?
- Thread starter guardianangelmp
- Start date
Well, what I mean by that is that there was some basis for allowing T6 crafting... some rationale. To me it seemed to be quite well-received (certainly was by me, but I'm trying to be as objective as I can) and to reverse it as if it was some kind of unintended change or bug does make me question things. I just really hope they aren't making knee-jerk reactions or listening to the vocal minority... plenty of games that have shown great promise have been ruined that way.
Roland
Moderator
That’s just it and why we are at an impasse.
You honestly see only one way to have fun and you honestly feel forced and ramrodded into that one single path.
I honestly still see multiple ways to have fun and don’t feel restricted or forced in the least.
It’s the same with LBD vs skill point economy. I played organically under each system and so was fine, personally, with either but there were others who felt forced to power level since the opportunity to power level existed.
We see people who claim TFP forces them to mine or kill zombies because at one point or another one of those activities is the most efficient way to play. In reality, those players could ignore efficiency and then be free to play however they wanted and TFP wasn’t forcing them into one thing or another.
You feel forced in this case and I do not. It’s a feeling and both are valid to each of us. There’s nothing to talk about.
And this is fine. It's when shooter/looters feel as if their game is being attacked when the argument really breaks down. This change doesn't affect them and I've yet to see a valid argument as to why is does. Perhaps if crafting was able to produce better items than looting I could see their point and probably agree with them. Hell, I'll even get behind legendary items provided it's very rare, at the end of a hard POI, and not just rolling the dice...
Vapid Actions
New member
No, because I don't "feel" forced into the looting path, I "am" forced into the looting path. Crafting has been removed as an endgame option. I'm not choosing that. If crafting endgame items was an option, *and* it was more efficient to craft endgame items than loot them, only then does someone "feel" forced into a certain route when they are not.
We're not arguing efficiency of options, we're arguing existence of options.
Now if we're talking about lucky looter being the main topic suddenly, there's of course a drive for efficiency there. But again, it's not min-maxing. It's a generic all around bonus which can only ever be positive. Not taking it is a handicap. It's possible to play a 'full game' with only T1 items. It's possible to play a 'full game' never picking up an item. And since we like talking about new player experience, what new player in their right mind wouldn't see "more loot" in a loot only game as by far the best option to take? This is why I mentioned earlier that lucky looter should perhaps be distributed to individual perks to increase loot chances for their specific related items rather than just one "be better at the game" perk.
No, because you won't get enough parts to craft it again. For some reason a highly skilled artisan crafter simply cannot better what has been rusting away in a post-apocalyptic world even with the machined parts to work with. Surely these items were made by the gods themselves... /s
Roland
Moderator
They didn’t listen to some outside minority. They listened to the general feedback that looting was too good and crafting too pointless. The dev who made the changes thought it was supposed to include re-allowing t6 crafting. Two days later one of the owners asked why the t6 crafting was re-allowed and a discussion ensued between all the devs that lasted a day and a-half. The decision came down on the side of sticking to what they wanted to do with A18 in the first place. T1-5 craftable. T6 loot and quest rewards.
Changes they did and do intend to make to help crafting:
1) change specific weapon parts to general weapon’s group parts so that finding parts that work for what you want to craft is easier.
2) change crafted item stats to a random range so players have a chance to craft the best instead of guaranteed midrange.
3) lower percent chance of finding q3-5 items in loot boxes and trader stores so that most found gear is low level stuff good for parts for crafting and the player is more likely to craft a higher level item than has been found.
4) make t6 items ultra rare in loot and trader stores and as top level quest rewards.
5) Oh yeah....changed farming from tilling to crafting....
Looting is still strong because of parts and schematics and perk books that can be found as well as the chance for a really lucky find.
That is the plan and it should be fully implemented by stable or 18.1 for sure. Should be interesting to witness it all.
Well, since everyone's gathering around the wishing well, I'll toss my two cents into the fountain.
Really, as long as I can fairly consistently craft t2-4 long before looting those same quality items, I'll feel as though my choice to specialize in certain weapons is paying off, and I'm getting full perk value from spending those points.
As long as my highest craftable tier gears me up well enough to tackle the high end dungeons (Oh, wait, sorry, PoI's) that will probably give me the quality pinnacles, I'm good with that, too.
My desire between crafting and looting, is to be able to use crafting to outfit myself in my chosen specializations, so that I can in turn knock enough teeth around (still mainlining fortitude and loving it) to get my "dungeon drops". Sure, we're not there yet, but as a thousand dead horses can tell you:
It's Experimental.
Really, as long as I can fairly consistently craft t2-4 long before looting those same quality items, I'll feel as though my choice to specialize in certain weapons is paying off, and I'm getting full perk value from spending those points.
As long as my highest craftable tier gears me up well enough to tackle the high end dungeons (Oh, wait, sorry, PoI's) that will probably give me the quality pinnacles, I'm good with that, too.
My desire between crafting and looting, is to be able to use crafting to outfit myself in my chosen specializations, so that I can in turn knock enough teeth around (still mainlining fortitude and loving it) to get my "dungeon drops". Sure, we're not there yet, but as a thousand dead horses can tell you:
It's Experimental.
snatchedalmond
New member
Yup, 6 years in and we're still changing instead of improving.
And still in Alpha. OMEGALUL
Respectfully, I disagree with you. Having started playing in Alpha 8, I feel like there's been both lateral changes and outright improvements made. But, as I'm confident nothing I add will alter your perception, all I'll say is this: I hope alpha 19 brings the improvements you feel have been otherwise absent.
Roland
Moderator
I’m sorry but if you can’t call A18 as a whole improvement then you have some kind of agenda for being here. And if you can’t acknowledge the legitimacy of making changes in an experimental branch that is “volunteer only” then you have some maturing to do.
Madmole just posted earlier today that Bandits are probably 9 months out so go ahead and get your “7 years in development!” and “8 years in development!!” clubs both crafted up to blue and outfitted with OMG mods because I know you’ll want to use them.
If that is accrate then that's a big OOF for me. One guy takes issue with it and steers the conversation amongst his paid employees. Unless this owner has experience in game design and not just a fat wallet with an urge to micro-manage then this certainly explains things post A16.
[Edit] My bad I didn't mean to miss part of your post
This actually isn't clear on the patch notes, am I just tired and not reading them correctly? If that's the case, then they just needed to have called them "Legendary" instead of "T6" and this would've been MUCH better received.... Remove them from traders (and easy POIs) altogether and it would've been better received still (based on my opinion and the feedback I've witnessed here, Twitch and Reddit).
Come to think of it, a large part of the problem has been communication. Their past and continued silence on this issue gives me some pause as well.
Last edited by a moderator:
snatchedalmond
New member
You're right, when A19 comes out, I'll probably play for about 2 weeks, and then move on to better games. Its the same cycle every update.
It's almost not worth wasting breath on at this point. Roland is stuck in his dream world, where crafting non endgame gear is amazing, and having an entire tier of gear only lootable, and particularly by a specific spec is not ridiculous.
This will be modded to be changed by people that have a little sense, and we can get back to enjoying the game minus this trash.
If you want to see what people want, look at the top sets of overhaul mods, pretty generally take us in the opposite direction this is headed.
This will be modded to be changed by people that have a little sense, and we can get back to enjoying the game minus this trash.
If you want to see what people want, look at the top sets of overhaul mods, pretty generally take us in the opposite direction this is headed.
Roland
Moderator
If you are playing overhaul mods that give you what you want then that’s wonderful!
Thanks to the generosity and foresight of the developers and the creativity and skill of modders using what TFP has provided them, you can get to playing the way you want and leave vanilla to those who share TFP’s vision.
We both already have evidence that both styles of play will be popular. Win-win.
Thanks to the generosity and foresight of the developers and the creativity and skill of modders using what TFP has provided them, you can get to playing the way you want and leave vanilla to those who share TFP’s vision.
We both already have evidence that both styles of play will be popular. Win-win.
Roland
Moderator
The team is small and there isn’t anyone on it who doesn’t have experience with development. The owners are also developers. I said there was team discussion after the change was noticed. Nobody was threatened if they didn’t pipe down and listen to “wallet guy”. It was more of correction to get back to the roadmap. Everyone criticizes TFP for “having no project management” until the head project manager calls for a realignment meeting and then it’s conspiracy theories....
Because it hasn’t happened yet. Watch for it in upcoming patch notes. In my list of changes I said which ones had happened and which ones were still to come.
I’ve been communicating the reasons and circumstances behind the changes and all I’m getting is grief and conspiracy theories because of it. People don’t want real communication or true early access. They just want to be stroked and petted and given the final product today.
Honestly now, did you opt in to experimental to help find bugs or to play A18 sooner rather than later?
Hmm, I'm glad that isn't an opinion shared by the devs and the principles of early access. I've found you to be quite rational in your responses on this issue to date, but I really disagree with that sentiment.
If they want a commercial failure then they're free to ignore a significant portion of their playerbase. I also would never partake in an early access game if that was the approach, including future ones from that developer.