PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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'Makes sense' means the game world should be credible and consistent. They cannot simply 'define how the world works' without affecting these two properties.
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Take the word "credible" out and I tend to agree with you but if you leave that in then,

a) Backpack should have at maximum 3 or 4 slots.

b) the bar at the bottom of the screen should have about the same.

c) Rock doesn't stack, iron doesn't stack, pretty much nothing would stack like it does in this game

d) zombies can't punch through anything harder than maybe wood

e) a player can't punch a tree and get wood

f) when a player places a wood frame it should take at least a few in-game minutes to "upgrade" it

g) etc, etc, etc.

The fact you can do ANY of the above is in no way "credible" but it does make a fun a game.

 
You missed the key point, kinyajuu said that if this were to be implemented they would only spawn behind the first layer of dirt behind your excavation and ONLY while you are actively digging would the % chance of a spawn happen in the block adjacent to the one you are currently digging they wouldn't just appear out of nowhere for no reason while you are just sat there admiring all your hard work and stocking your underground store.
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That is just not true. Read his quote that my comment was underneath.

 
I have to correct myself (because I tend to forget NPCs). Groups of wild free-roaming geologists using special measuring probes in order to find player-made cavities could be a realistic option for underground threats. :laugh:
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This makes my idea of caverns even more viable! 😂

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A high level monk can fall any distance and take no damage provided he is in proximity to a wall.
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Really Gaz? Monks now? lol

 
I like to keep it simple (stupid). =)
...another suggestion would just to add a dirt animation around the digging zombie when he is in "digging" mode and allow him to phase through dirt, and dirt alone.
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Agreed. Stupid. :-p

But yeah, that's seemed the best approach to digging zombies IMO. Though if we did that, I don't think having a "digger" Zombie would be necessary. Just give all zombies that function.

The only problem I thought of with that is what happens when the path of a Zombie goes through the dirt and ends up at a players concrete wall? They phase through it? They form a pocket next to the wall and materialize? Something seems like it would be funky at that point.

 
It's a quick test to determine porosity.

You can do the same with ceramics. (which is really just an artificial mineral)

If you lick it and it feels dry then it's a lower quality material. The other extreme is porcelain which is already glass to a decent percentage. That won't feel dry at all.

"Honey, why are you licking the tableware? 7DTD forum told me to."

 
I agree hordes should be able to be turned off for people who dont like them...though i still never understand why. However the controlling factor of said hordes should NOT be weather u choose to build above ground or not. It should be a menu option.. Hordes on = threats everywhere , Hordes off = boring everywhere including below ground and above. Base location should not drive this option.
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I'd prefer a horde frequency setting. 7 days, 14 days, 21 days, 28 days. Again a game pace setting option.

Though this doesn't handle screamers and wandering hordes that are more likely to reek havok than a blood moon if certain game mechanics are implemented such as digging zombies.

Blood Moon, you know it's coming and can prepare, even prepare an avoidance method where damage to your base and terrain might be countered.

Wandering hordes especially, not so much. At 50 blocks deep, you don't always know they're above you trashing things. Worse, you don't know diggers are burrowing down making your world a pockmarked terrain of ankle breaking annoyances and Structural Integrity nightmares.

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"Honey, why are you licking the tableware? 7DTD forum told me to."
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Please stop listening in on my marital conversations.

 
Agreed. Stupid. :-p
But yeah, that's seemed the best approach to digging zombies IMO. Though if we did that, I don't think having a "digger" Zombie would be necessary. Just give all zombies that function.

The only problem I thought of with that is what happens when the path of a Zombie goes through the dirt and ends up at a players concrete wall? They phase through it? They form a pocket next to the wall and materialize? Something seems like it would be funky at that point.
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No, they beat on it like any other wall. Obviously whatever dirt blocks they're "in" would have to be replaced with their entity, but that's temporary. What would be cool is if they left tilled dirt in their wake. And no, not a special zombie, just a special digging mode they go into.

 
No, they beat on it like any other wall. Obviously whatever dirt blocks they're "in" would have to be replaced with their entity, but that's temporary. What would be cool is if they left tilled dirt in their wake. And no, not a special zombie, just a special digging mode they go into.
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Yeah, that's kinda what I imagined. Still. If we're talking underground play, I'd rather see a group of zombies running down my halls rather than magically appearing from some soil.

How to make that happen... I have no idea...

 
We weren't the first to inhabit this land and bury our dead. So 6 ft is not necessarily a hard limit.
But forget that. Kinyajuu's idea could work if you only take the dirt layer into consideration. The zombies break in near the entrance/exit of your tunnel but still deep enough to be inside and then work their way down through the tunnel to assault your bunker. I think that is less cool than seeing them breaking through the walls around you but for the sake your immersion I'd be willing to give up that dream and go with something less cool but that still results in me defending my bunker from zombies.
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It's a big assumption that players hollow out lots of rock around them and then build a bunker underground.

I dig down, establish just enough space for what I need to build, enclose it completely with walls and a roof so people using render glitches cant see whats inside, and start adjusting my base as needed.

If zombie came "bursting through my walls" they are going through every chest, forge, mixer, my well, etc, and could potentially wipe me out before I can even see where they are.

Seems a bit more brutal than it should be, unless there's an assumption I missed that large swathes of underground are already hollowed out?

 
I really like the "granite" idea as a solution to allow underground caverns! Don't think it's necessary to require a steel pickaxe to break through it though, don't really see the point. I'd rather just make it look like and have the same durability as normal stone for a seamless transition that the player doesn't notice.

 
I still like the idea of having "rock" get harder to dig through the deeper you go (based on the number of blocks above it, for instance). It would also be good to have tools wear out faster or slower based on the density of the rock. So an iron pickaxe would wear out faster than a steel one after a certain depth (not just number of hits). An auger might even be required for the last 10 blocks or something like that (or at least desired if it takes 30 hits with a steel pickaxe to break one block of stone at that depth).

 
It's a big assumption that players hollow out lots of rock around them and then build a bunker underground.
I dig down, establish just enough space for what I need to build, enclose it completely with walls and a roof so people using render glitches cant see whats inside, and start adjusting my base as needed.

If zombie came "bursting through my walls" they are going through every chest, forge, mixer, my well, etc, and could potentially wipe me out before I can even see where they are.

Seems a bit more brutal than it should be, unless there's an assumption I missed that large swathes of underground are already hollowed out?
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This is a good point, I don't do the big bunker thing either, I dig to get ore that I need for the game. I find a place close to most of the Biomes & the Desert is easiest until you get to stone. I dig a 5 x 5 shaft & line it with blocks, ceiling & trap door. I start out with a 1 x 3 shaft straight down until I hit Bed Rock & it makes a big difference where you dig. It takes a lot longer to hit Bed Rock if you start at the top of a Mountain.

Once I hit Bed Rock I keep the Shaft enclosed & have 4 doors heading N, S, E, W to the different Biomes I am close to. I have Iron Bars around the bottom of the Shaft incase Z's come down the Shaft to shoot them.

I dig in the Mine Shaft Biome just like a real mine & set up my Forge Room there & I dig 1 x 3 Shafts until I reach the next Biome I am close to & start Mining for what I need. I only dig to set up a Mine for Ore but if Someone wants to build a Bunker so what,

Bomb Shelters were popular back then & glad Bunkers are in the Game.

 
I still like the idea of having "rock" get harder to dig through the deeper you go (based on the number of blocks above it, for instance). It would also be good to have tools wear out faster or slower based on the density of the rock. So an iron pickaxe would wear out faster than a steel one after a certain depth (not just number of hits). An auger might even be required for the last 10 blocks or something like that (or at least desired if it takes 30 hits with a steel pickaxe to break one block of stone at that depth).
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This type of depth based logic I don't think would ever work out well where the surface has varying height.

So I start a game in an area that has a surface height of -15 and already I'm may be struggling just to get stone mining?

The more all this conversation goes on the more I want to simply say get rid of underground mining all together and make resource gathering for raw materials something completely different.

I think this is one of the challenges of putting vision to reality. This stuff doesn't blend well when you have GPS tracking zombies, full underground mining and terrain destruction by player and NPCs alike, structural integrity, and a mix of players who like potential short hard and fast game play and players who like long world building/empire building play. And everything in between.

This is just an ugly rock and hard place. Which even features that can be enabled or disabled will struggle to satisfy large camps of play styles across the board.

 
I believe 90% of the things that are going to be worked on until the game goes gold are what's in the KS. I think people are not thinking clearly who think anything else.

The KS is now a ball and chain around TFP necks and they don't want a rep of not keeping their word.

So:

1) KS + maybe 10% more.

2) Release to Gold.

3) Make some cool DLC's.

4) Start on their next game.

I'd bet money its very close to that.

 
It's a big assumption that players hollow out lots of rock around them and then build a bunker underground.
I dig down, establish just enough space for what I need to build, enclose it completely with walls and a roof so people using render glitches cant see whats inside, and start adjusting my base as needed.

If zombie came "bursting through my walls" they are going through every chest, forge, mixer, my well, etc, and could potentially wipe me out before I can even see where they are.

Seems a bit more brutal than it should be, unless there's an assumption I missed that large swathes of underground are already hollowed out?
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In my post you quoted I was talking about the zombies breaking into your access tunnel up near the dirt level and then coming down through your access tunnel. I think that is the part you missed from my post.

 
This type of depth based logic I don't think would ever work out well where the surface has varying height.
So I start a game in an area that has a surface height of -15 and already I'm may be struggling just to get stone mining?
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Not what I was thinking. More like this... start at the top sky point and then move down until you hit the first earth block. Then count the blocks between that point and the block you're currently hitting. THAT determines the difficulty. The top surface block will always be the same difficulty, regardless if it is at the top of a mountain or in the bottom of a valley. They could even make the effect not be noticed until you are at least 20 blocks down or something like that.

 
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