PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Thunderfrog]

In my post you quoted I was talking about the zombies breaking into your access tunnel up near the dirt level and then coming down through your access tunnel. I think that is the part you missed from my post.

This makes a bit more sense then. Sorry I missed that distinction.

I play on 55 pop PVP server, so living underground is a necessity for the most part. Screamers are already dangerous, because they are a clear tip off I am running forges directly under them.

I like that there's a fairly safe place from the zeds, but I wouldn't mind there being some sort of danger underground as long as it didn't result in near instant destruction of whats on the walls and was made easy enough to find in the large or small sprawl of an underground base.

 

[Menace312]

I believe 90% of the things that are going to be worked on until the game goes gold are what's in the KS. I think people are not thinking clearly who think anything else.
The KS is now a ball and chain around TFP necks and they don't want a rep of not keeping their word.

So:

1) KS + maybe 10% more.

2) Release to Gold.

3) Make some cool DLC's.

4) Start on their next game.

I'd bet money its very close to that.

Yeah, that would be my guess as well...

Which actually makes a lot of sense.

Many very cool things are still to be added, and things like being safe underground is really not a big deal.

Just don't build there...

But it's always cool to discuss ideas and possible solutions. No harm in that

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Groups of wild geologists using special measuring probes to investigate player cavities sounds scary indeed.

Sounds like a Saturday night here in Brighton.

 

[chaosterone]

Loot distribution in general could do with some tweaks.
At the moment you seem to be able to get the best loot anywhere. Certain sites should have exclusive loot encouraging players to visit them and travel a bit more.

Military loot should be kept to military sites and personnel (assault rifles / SMGs etc)

Sky Scrapers have rare loot spawning at the top. Maybe there is a bit of a boss fight where it's all stashed turning them into the mini dungeons they are sometimes referred to.

Schematics should be properly distributed rather than % chance from any book shelf or cabinet. gun schematics should only spawn in gun shop filing desks, auger schematics only in working stiff filing cabinets.

These are just a few examples, it could be worked much more.

I like these ideas in general, but it should be balanced so Crack a Book still has a chance for all types of schematics.

When legendary loot becomes a thing, I would like it if finding the actual loot is an adventure all its own. This is where different POIs like military sites, skyscrapers and the wastelands would be the places to find the first clue (a piece of map or note?) to an items location.

With the first clue in hand, it would direct you to the next clue somewhere across the map. Have 5 to 10 different searches for each legendary item depending on its value.

It could work as treasure maps do now where nothing exists until you accept the treasure map and the chest is created. The cool thing is you would be all over the map to complete one quest.

 

[Aldranon]

Yeah, that would be my guess as well...
Which actually makes a lot of sense.

Many very cool things are still to be added, and things like being safe underground is really not a big deal.

Just don't build there...

But it's always cool to discuss ideas and possible solutions. No harm in that

As long as people aren't expecting it to happen in the vanilla game (With DLC's you have a good chance if its a cool idea).

I have to admit, I hope some ideas I read get into a DLC, I'd buy them!

 

[caatalyst]

Yeah totally onboard with developing it further to find multiple schematics or parts or some sort of quest chain spread across the map! There’s so many untapped ways of working the distribution and acquisition of loot.

I’m really against the current ‘gate everything behind perks’. I’m hoping we get much more natural and immersive ways to discover and loot in the future.

 

[Roland]

.....and things like being safe underground is really not a big deal.Just don't build there...

That is the regrettable part of the current state of the game. I WANT to build there but I won't until it joins the rest of the survival game. It sucks having to ignore an entire biome because it currently exists outside of the zombie survival game. If zombies couldn't enter the Plains biome and never spawned there and if in fact all I had to do was step five paces into the Plains biome and be perfectly completely 100% safe there I wouldn't build there either but wouldn't exactly call it not a big deal....

Hopefully someday the underworld biome will join the rest of the game.

 

[graphite]

My only thoughts on the matter of underground spawning are if a zombie builds a 3*1*n tunnel the SI directly above the hollow is going to be ~60.

How much would this compromise above ground stuctures or have i got this totally wrong.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Groups of wild geologists using special measuring probes to investigate player cavities sounds scary indeed.

A whole no reason to fear a name "7 Days To Die".

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds like a Saturday night here in Brighton.

Dear lord please no....

 

[Menace312]

As long as people aren't expecting it to happen in the vanilla game (With DLC's you have a good chance if its a cool idea).I have to admit, I hope some ideas I read get into a DLC, I'd buy them!

I totally agree, but after some time around the forum, it doesn't seem likely. Some will always misunderstand or troll. Good thing there are many knowledgeable on here .

DLC? Sure sign me up... This game has staying power.

That may have to do with the game feeling like a new game every alpha... But that's what a DLC would do/extend too, so yey

 

[Menace312]

That is the regrettable part of the current state of the game. I WANT to build there but I won't until it joins the rest of the survival game. It sucks having to ignore an entire biome because it currently exists outside of the zombie survival game. If zombies couldn't enter the Plains biome and never spawned there and if in fact all I had to do was step five paces into the Plains biome and be perfectly completely 100% safe there I wouldn't build there either but wouldn't exactly call it not a big deal....
Hopefully someday the underworld biome will join the rest of the game.

Hmm, good point... It may seem obvious, but I didn't think about it that way.

Underground for me, is where you can stay safe... It's nice for early game if you start somewhere bad.

Also if you don't feel like fighting, you can go mine for awhile.

So there is a kinda mini game in it.

But as a biome in itself would be epic!

So unique zombies?

Expanded ores?

Traps?

Air?

Heat? (Warmth)

Etc...

Might be worth tackling instead of a totally new above ground biome (if that's even on the table). Immersion immersion immersion

Edit:

Or underground biome DLC maybe? I'd buy that.

 

[Jackelmyer]

That is the regrettable part of the current state of the game. I WANT to build there but I won't until it joins the rest of the survival game. It sucks having to ignore an entire biome because it currently exists outside of the zombie survival game. If zombies couldn't enter the Plains biome and never spawned there and if in fact all I had to do was step five paces into the Plains biome and be perfectly completely 100% safe there I wouldn't build there either but wouldn't exactly call it not a big deal....
Hopefully someday the underworld biome will join the rest of the game.

UGH. Just so you know, I'm trying man. lol. I'm really trying. Below is my latest hair brained idea. But I started killing it off as I wrote it up.

* No matter what digging mechanic, you'll now have to widely defend, at a bare minimum, 5 sides of a cube. With no real great pathing bait like doors. That seems REALLY excessive. Suddenly you now have the equivalent of flying zombies. ALL zombies as flying zombies.

* You're also pitting a situation where you have 5 cop zombies land right up against your forge room wall or ceiling and no way to know they're coming really. And even if you knew they were coming, this becomes ridiculously complex to balance game play IMO.

Uh... How bout this?

Firstly, what I'd call the bigger challenges to getting zombies underground:

* Horizontal/diagonal digging causes SI issues. Indirectly causes excessive player maintenance potentially. Busy work = bad.

* Immersion as to how and why zombies got underground.

* Stupid little pitfalls breaking legs and killing people. We're all tired enough of broken legs. Right?

Uh... What about... A Horde Vertical Digging mechanic?

Random zombies, like those found around town don't really belong to a horde so this would not apply to them. Wandering, Screamer, Blood Moon hordes would be affected (maybe not screamers, might just become too much).

If horde targets player underground and no air path (air/doors/hatches/ladders/etc) to the player exists within say 50-100 blocks? Then Horde Digging mechanic kicks in.

Horde kinda groups up together into a tight pack. All zombies hunker down and start digging. Hitting all blocks in a 3Wx3Lx1D range. But ONLY vertically dig above the nearest air pocket that connects to a players foot block. Have the zombies hits act like explosions. Causing debris to fly around (existing mechanics). Giving surface indicators that "zombies dug a pit here".

Now... Pause. lol.

You get the following results (probably not seeing this from all angels).

1. Zombies work their way down below. Underground becomes part of game play.

2. Happens enough times, there's going to be a few vertical shafts around your base that zombies will navigate too before going into Dig Mode. I.E. get as close to a player as possible, identify player foot location once and cache that as the ongoing navigation target point. So eventually, yeah, you'll have pits. But zombies will stop digging them? maybe?

3. None of the digging is horizontal.

4. Some surface indicators of a pit plus a larger pit is easier to spot. Less annoying broken ankle/falling in random little hole instances. Though yeah, you're gonna die more from these types of pits than diagonal ones... >.>

Still... Can get pretty swiss cheese. But at least without affecting SI because all shafts are vertical.

This problem is really annoying me... lol

The whole damn thing takes me back to Cavern POI's. Like you say Roland. "It's a Biome". So let's use it like one.

 

[Odetta]

I like this idea for an underground dweller. Plus, you made me look up limpet teeth :tongue1: . Interesting!

http://www.newsweek.com/snail-teeth-found-be-strongest-natural-material-307707

Thanks Bubo, Perseus would be proud. Kinda freaky, aren't they.

 

[graphite]

I think targeting blocktypes can be probmatic making a descision to pathfinding to a block and then kicking in the there is a block in front of me smash it and go back to AI descision making.

I am not sure that infecting surrounding terrain blocks of player placed blocks with a targeting tag will solve underground installations but for above ground i think could work.

I imagine if zombies are going to dig vertical from the surface then they need a target i am not sure what that can be without an expensive calculation.

Apart from the heat map sources the only thing i can think of is economic value like storage, mixers,forges to have there own heat for targeting.

 

[Gipothegip]

It's a quick test to determine porosity.
You can do the same with ceramics. (which is really just an artificial mineral)

If you lick it and it feels dry then it's a lower quality material. The other extreme is porcelain which is already glass to a decent percentage. That won't feel dry at all.

"Honey, why are you licking the tableware? 7DTD forum told me to."

Okay, color me curious. How did we get to licking ceramics?

 

[Archy]

How far away are you from your base, just make one with some forged iron.

that would have been too late... it was an emoigency...

 

[graphite]

You could change player built storage around so some storage is tempoary and limited to stack sizes and space and it only lasts so long before despawning.

Permanent storage is able to be targeted by zeds for path finding but not as a block to destroy.

Not a good idea at all i know but i was trying to think of a block or entity that will be in the base that you need that zeds can target.

This was the only example i could think of.

 

[Jackelmyer]

The underground Cavern POI thing has me thinking more...

I wonder if they can do the Perln Cave System, with connecting tunnels, where tunnels are pathed like roads, to POI systems underground, that ultimately work their way up to surface Cave Entrances.

With rules like:

One overall Rule: Only terrain blocks allowed overhead.

Underground Cities - Obviously, these aren't filled with buildings, though maybe some have shacks of ex survivor groups so there may be some large caverns with died out populations. But City rules. Sockets, No overlapping POI spawns (so no underground cities underneath above ground cities and towns), etc. Where POI's may be something like resource pockets, pools, stalactite and stalagmite areas, Maybe ceiling waterfalls when water gets worked out. Stuff like that. I think using a City Type spawn mechanic would automatically handle the overall rule.

Path/Tunnels: Use road pathing mechanics to determine how these underground cavern POI's connect or if they connect. Also used to determine a Tunnel to the surface.

As part of this, in World Gen have Prefabs, not spawned in towns and cities, ensure they're spawning on an area that is solid to bedrock. This may add notable World Gen time, but it's with reason.

Require Cities, above and below ground, to have Padded Boundaries. Meaning, cities can only spawn as close as 100 blocks apart or more. So when a city/town is going to be placed in Random World Gen, it requires a check to see how close it is to the closest city boundaries. If less than 100 blocks, adjust the boundary of the new city accordingly. Will take some fiddling to avoid ping ponging a new city placement between already placed cities. But seems doable.

What's this give you?

* An underground system that doesn't overlap. SI issues resolved for world creation.

* A reason to take over an existing building, work up some resources, and tear that bugger down to rebuild. With the rule that Prefabs can't be placed over air pockets, you know that an existing building is a safe build location, at least for the most part. Maybe as part of prefab placement, put in a boundary padding check of 25 blocks to the nearest air pocket to add room for larger bases to drop?

* Methods for Zombies, settlements, and what not to get underground and to have an actual underground biome potentially as rich as the above world.

* Air pocket routes that zombies can follow as opposed to destroying the world in order to get closer to the player.

Uh... The only thing I worry about with something like this, is again, wandering hordes... GPS zombies or traveling zombies generally speaking. They're the ones that will eventually go unnoticed and tear up the underside of the world. Might be nice that if a player leaves a certain range, the zombies stop tearing up the world. I dunno... But just a tie in idea to the cave systems that TFP mentioned as an old A16 goal.

 

[chaosterone]

I think Jackelmyer is on the right track. A lot of good ideas/alternatives are posted, but the simplest solution is for the blood moon horde (and only the BM horde) to be able to dig.

If it is going to GPS to you, then let it get to you. The horde can take out walls, climb ladders and steps, but isn't allowed to dig? People with ground bases could still protect their stuff by also having a Blood Moon base (say, over near their enemies base). It is a good idea, not an end of a world scenario, and brings zombies to the dirt near you.

@ caatalyst

I think there is a lot of room for developing quest chains. With luck the TFP will avoid overly simple quests, instead making them a multifaceted project, similar to getting the mini bike built.

Running out and killing two zombies for a trader isn't much of a quest, but if it were the first of many steps to finish the quest......

 

[bayaholic]

Seems like to make a threat of zeds underground is going to cause issues for folks above ground, like swiss cheese and SI. IMO, it would have to be environmental threats for underground challenges, or just leave it be the safe haven.