PC An in depth discussion on zombie loot in alpha 17
- Thread starter Colin248
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SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
I voted that I'm fine with "It's a good decision". Truly cleaning up after the horde becomes a real PITA. After the second or third horde night, I don't even care about 90% of the drops in there. Almost everything is either scrapped for base components, or tossed on the floor. Then there are all the corpses to clean up. It's just tedious, and a waste of game time that could be put to better use.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
again. that´s why i said "kinda right". Maybe someone google kinda? i thought it´s a common word... i wish i would get answers on why the gamestage can replace a drop down menu that fast and many.
honestly the result of the poll is reassuring. everyone seams to be the dont know it till you try it kind of mentality and thats good. no extreme just middle of the road.
im just worried when it does come out that people react... very... whats the right word for just outright rage... at this specific change. i was just concerned for the rep to go from this game i adore... more then the lengthy develop time already does to it. XD
TheStoryteller01
New member
Imho there is one answer option missing (that at least I would take):
- I don't really care because so far I've modded the heck out of the game and I will do the same with A 17 anyway
- I don't really care because so far I've modded the heck out of the game and I will do the same with A 17 anyway
fwiw I've probably raised the most concerns about the loot and I voted that I'll reserve judgment. Like, how can you tell if it's good or bad until you've tried it? Still, you can have something explained to you and have a gut feeling on whether or not it's a good idea. If the developers said "whenever a dog bites you all of your weapons in your inventory and in your hand drop to the floor" and most people will read that and say it's a bad idea, even without trying it. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, that just means it sounds like a bad idea. Maybe it will be the most fun thing imaginable.
Scyris
New member
TBH I've never liked the gpsing zombies every 7 days, in A16 I usually go underground or on the 2nd floor of a poi and knock the stairs out and ignore them. Might shoot a few thru the floors. I also find running zombies stupid, but I can see night/horde night being even more of a joke if I shut running off, though I do think with running off ferals still run regardless.
At least zombies still give exp so they have a reason for me to kill them, otherwise i'd just avoid them other than ones I have to kill which for the most part would be the sleepers in poi's. I'm worried more about possibly losing them as a bone source.
I voted on the reserve judgement till I try it myself. rng is a fickle thing. Also, there will be several experemental patches most likely so stuff like the loot is bound to change
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For sure but now zombies are going to have better AI that targets SI, and also the ability to dig so there's likely not going to be a way to ignore them other than to ride around on a minibike.
My main concern is that as the hordes get extreme - I'm talking like maximum gamestage hordes with like 50 simultaneous zombies all night, half radiated cops the other half radiated ferals - that you're going to spend more than 6 days recouping your losses for the 7th night. My greatest fear here is that as the game progresses, you'll be able to spend less and less time doing anything other than preparing for the horde - unless you avoid the horde completely. With zombie loot in A16.4 you generally recoup your losses in about 1-2 days which leaves you 5-6 days to go looting, gather resources, build structures, make progression, etc. If zombie loot is drastically more rare I'm worried that 1-2 days will turn into 3-4 days and by the time gamestage is maxed out it might take longer to prepare for a 7th night than 7 days. If I'm chewing through 5,000 bullets and a bunch of landmines and spikes and concrete walls on a 7th night I can't imagine being able to recoup that in a reasonable amount of time through anything other than zombie loot. I'm sure there are other solutions to this problem I just hope the developers have implemented at least one method of reward for 7th nights otherwise it would make more sense to me to ride around on a minibike so I can spend my 6 days doing other things I would like to do.
Roland
Moderator
There's a classic story of an old geezer who would always chase the neighborhood boys away from from playing on his front lawn to no avail. For whatever reason they loved playing in his yard. One night he came outside and the boys got ready to run away but he called them over and said, "Boys, tomorrow I actually want you to play in my yard and I'm going to pay you a quarter right now to do it"
The boys were overjoyed and for two weeks straight the old man paid them a quarter every night to play in his yard the next day. Then, at the beginning of the third week when they came to his door for their quarter he told them they were welcome to play in his yard but he wasn't going to pay them any longer. They would have to do it without compensation.
They never played in his yard again...
The boys were overjoyed and for two weeks straight the old man paid them a quarter every night to play in his yard the next day. Then, at the beginning of the third week when they came to his door for their quarter he told them they were welcome to play in his yard but he wasn't going to pay them any longer. They would have to do it without compensation.
They never played in his yard again...
Jugginator
Moderator
That was hilarious. +900 rep -- first good laugh since last week.
that is funny, il give you that. XD
but i feel this point is mute, as well as the people saying you shouldent be rewarded for slaying zeds. whilst i can understand to a point, its a zombie survival game.... yeh. your right. its a zombie survival GAME. if you want a sim, go play... *snirk* day z. that doesnt reward ya for killing zeds. altho i do hear the mod is still going strong. end of the day games are supposed to be fun. loot is fun. its why lootboxes are so bloody addictive. as is looting the hordes and slaying enemys in this game.
huh... perhaps thats more the problem. the addiction fo the random loot generator. looting corpses is always fun because you never know what you find.
bloom_meister
Banned
I voted to reserve judgement because there are too many unknowns right now.
I will say however that this is an excellent change for pvp!
I will say however that this is an excellent change for pvp!
AiRJacobs
New member
I'm fine with the loot being rare, as long as the rare loot is actually really good; not just some paper.
I also wish there was a progress bar of some sorts for how many zombies you have to kill before your next kill drops loot. That way you have some idea of the game's flow, and a reason to not simply avoid every zombie you see.
I also wish there was a progress bar of some sorts for how many zombies you have to kill before your next kill drops loot. That way you have some idea of the game's flow, and a reason to not simply avoid every zombie you see.
I would have liked to vote "I believe it is a good change but I'll have to play it to be sure". Since there were only extremes available I sadly had to go with one of them. Consider, even "reserve judgement" is sort of an extreme choice because everyone has some sort of expectation how he might like it.
Both were linked until A16 because the loot was a solution to the costs BUT not the time of repair. As soon as the loot looses its draw (in the later stages of the game) you are left with the repair time as a drawback and so the fundamental problem still existed even with loot-zombies.
I don't have a perfect solution for this. The rest of the game will be improved by this change (IMHO) because a game is better if you immerse yourself into the game instead of playing a meta game (but, many players are fine with playing meta-games or are conditioned to play it). The tower defense needs some way to recompensate you for the time and material cost, but there are lots of ways to do it.
For example:
1) Wasn't it you that brought up the treasure map you get as reward for horde night. I think this is a great idea
2) Damage after a horde night is automatically repaired. Sure, sounds immersion-breaking. Maybe it is just an insurrance you can buy cheap at the trader who sends over workers to repair anything done by the zombies, would explain everything except the economics of such an insurrance :smile-new:
3) Only on horde night you get some information, only by combining the information you can win the game. For example it could be that a scientist needs 8 glands of special boss zombies that only come out at horde night to make a serum. Or every horde night boss zombie has a map with the location of their own "zombie generator". If you don't destroy the generator, you get two bosses the next horde night. And so on. Either you need to destroy all generators or multiple bosses are so hard and fast that you eventually can't evade them by minibike or other means anymore.
Doesn't solve the cost problem, but you are motivated to attend horde nights because you need the "macguffin" to win the game. (google macguffin if you don't know what it is)
Zombies aren't a resource is a design goal. That defending a base incurs costs that have to be payed by the player and that could diminish his motivation for the tower defense is a different issue.
Both were linked until A16 because the loot was a solution to the costs BUT not the time of repair. As soon as the loot looses its draw (in the later stages of the game) you are left with the repair time as a drawback and so the fundamental problem still existed even with loot-zombies.
I don't have a perfect solution for this. The rest of the game will be improved by this change (IMHO) because a game is better if you immerse yourself into the game instead of playing a meta game (but, many players are fine with playing meta-games or are conditioned to play it). The tower defense needs some way to recompensate you for the time and material cost, but there are lots of ways to do it.
For example:
1) Wasn't it you that brought up the treasure map you get as reward for horde night. I think this is a great idea
2) Damage after a horde night is automatically repaired. Sure, sounds immersion-breaking. Maybe it is just an insurrance you can buy cheap at the trader who sends over workers to repair anything done by the zombies, would explain everything except the economics of such an insurrance :smile-new:
3) Only on horde night you get some information, only by combining the information you can win the game. For example it could be that a scientist needs 8 glands of special boss zombies that only come out at horde night to make a serum. Or every horde night boss zombie has a map with the location of their own "zombie generator". If you don't destroy the generator, you get two bosses the next horde night. And so on. Either you need to destroy all generators or multiple bosses are so hard and fast that you eventually can't evade them by minibike or other means anymore.
Doesn't solve the cost problem, but you are motivated to attend horde nights because you need the "macguffin" to win the game. (google macguffin if you don't know what it is)
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I agree that there are solutions other than zombie loot, I am only bringing attention to the problem.
My player-driven solution will be to ride around on a minibike every 7th night, unless I really REALLY have an excess of resources and just want to kill some zombies. I just, don't really want it to be that way. I think in terms of efficiency and it just, doesn't seem practical to take a 7th night horde if you don't have to, unless there is some sort of reward or payoff in some way.
And yes it was me who suggested a treasure map
My player-driven solution will be to ride around on a minibike every 7th night, unless I really REALLY have an excess of resources and just want to kill some zombies. I just, don't really want it to be that way. I think in terms of efficiency and it just, doesn't seem practical to take a 7th night horde if you don't have to, unless there is some sort of reward or payoff in some way.
And yes it was me who suggested a treasure map
Nope, nothing to do with that. It's just a simple mathematical equation. If I fight the horde now, I get to have the fun of fighting a horde and I come out with a net gain in experience and value, as long as I build a good defense and am a good player. A completely positive result. If (THEORETICALLY) there was no zombie loot (AT ALL - which by the way is NOT true, but we don't yet know the extent of the rarity of zombie loot) - then I still get to have the fun of fighting the horde, but I am /guaranteed/ a net loss of value. Alternatively I can just ride a minibike around the wilderness all night and incur no loss of value whatsoever. The downside to that is I don't get to fight a horde. So what used to be an obvious choice:
a) fight the horde, net positive all around
b) run from the horde, neither positive or negative
becomes:
a) fight the horde, net negative all around
b) run from the horde, neither positive or negative
I said it before, "if, as a developer, you give them the opportunity, the player will optimize the fun out of your game, so you have to save them from themselves"
My concern is simple. Fighting the horde should always be the obvious and preferred option. You WANT your players to fight your hordes. Give them a reason to do so. Don't give us more reasons to run and hide.
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Jedo
New member
Tell me that you aren't one of those "underground shouldn't be safe people." I'm just saying that their argument tends to be "it's more efficient and the reward for fighting the 7th night horde isn't worth it."I agree that there are solutions other than zombie loot, I am only bringing attention to the problem.
My player-driven solution will be to ride around on a minibike every 7th night, unless I really REALLY have an excess of resources and just want to kill some zombies. I just, don't really want it to be that way. I think in terms of efficiency and it just, doesn't seem practical to take a 7th night horde if you don't have to, unless there is some sort of reward or payoff in some way.
And yes it was me who suggested a treasure map