PC Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

pApA^LeGBa said:
@Roland Tbh, i much rather prefer more variety over visuals.
Click to expand...
Me too. But neither of us are calling the shots for the game. The two that are, care very much about visuals and are unwilling to compromise their visual standard for variety as has been demonstrated many times. 

pApA^LeGBa said:
And if TFP adds more types of zombies the visuals would obviously be to their standards. And they would also obviously be made the same way as the models we already have in vanilla, so how should that impact performance?
Click to expand...
It wouldn’t impact performance but it takes a lot of time to do. They are creating new models as we speak— bandits…a dozen or so of them I believe was mentioned. So TFP has obligations to fulfill for their base game and are working towards that while modders simply do whatever they want and using inferior methods such as the legacy UMA or free domain models or even asset store models which are three methods to more quickly get variety but none that TFP uses opting to use in-house artists to draw,  model, and rig up original assets. They are also adding variety to the world to make the environment better looking. All of this work has to be managed and divided. 

pApA^LeGBa said:
I don´t have any performance issues with overhaul mods unless there is tons of zombies, so the same as in vanilla, never seen any FPS drops when a modded zombie model spawned. I have a 200$ CPU and a 6 year old GPU.
Click to expand...
Great. And I don’t see much or any performance drops when I double the spawn numbers of zombies in the xml files and yet TFP won’t do that either. The game isn’t feature complete and they know what adding the rest of the features is going to cost them so they are being conservative with what they do now. 
 

Sometimes they do push things like the city center tiles with high density buildings and spawn volumes and higher spawn numbers and faster spawn rates. And look at the guff they get because of the performance hits people experience in those areas. 

JCrook1028 said:
Um yes it has. Open book vs closed book.
Click to expand...
He already knows but apparently thought it sounded more impactful for his argument to say it doesn’t have one at all rather than say that it has one that he feels is not very good. 

 
@Roland Well the cities are a new feature, i am pretty sure the optimization for that isn´t at it´s full potential yet. If it is, they need to rework the cities as a whole, the current performance there is in no way acceptable. That´s not a hardware issue, people with good PC´s have this aswell. And you can´t tell me they didn´t know it will cause lag and upset some people, yet they released it. That´s normal in development. Even with all the rants about it the player numbers are stable, so people ranting about is not an issue at all. Not even the EPIC drama, wich upsets people way more, did bring down the player numbers. 

I don´t care when, but the current models aren´t enough tbh. There is a lot of arechtypes missing, like people in sports outfit for example (not talking about the football player, people who were playing tennis or jogging when they turned for example). People in working clothes from fastfood chains or supermarkets, etc.

For the spawnrate, we really need the slider back for the zombie spawn rate. And please don´t tell me that people don´t like to many options or get confused by them, that´s BS. Look at ARK. It´s still popular. And it has a TON of options and players. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
meganoth said:
But it happens that the creator of an idea is often too "close" to it to see the drawbacks. 
Click to expand...


And that goes for TFP as well which is why there is a team that discusses and when things are implemented it is tested and then adjustments are made and then most importantly it is released to larger gamer population in early access so that drawbacks and ramifications can be seen. That is exactly why some things are removed after being implemented. Some people think the devs remove stuff because of negative criticism being typed out but more often it is because of what they have observered and the trends they've seen that work against the design they envision. Unfortunately, some players become married to some features and start to think those features define the game for themselves and that they should define the game for everyone. Others also mistakenly believe that the devs don't have the right to change things if it forces those people to change their playstyle.

No amount of criticism or praise written about the water changes and the crafting changes are going to stop TFP from releasing them to experimental and possibly even for months of gameplay in the stable alpha version so they can assess all those things they were possibly too close to see when they implemented them. Its funny how people claim that once it is released that it probably won't ever get changed and yet...these are the same people who criticize TFP for changing things previously released yet again..lol

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Neminsis said:
I mean you were there and all, but would anyone have used the dew collector if water hadn't been touched? Someone was thinking it.
Click to expand...


Removal of empty jars was the starting place. It actually goes way back to the beginning when the game used to never return an empty jar after drinking water. There was a lot of discussion about that on the forums and in team meetings. Those who were more reality minded of course wanted the empty jar returned-- after all, where did it go? So they changed it. Since that time empty jars have been a pain in the development ass and there have been multiple discussions about just removing empty jars to bring jars into alignment with the other containers in the game that are not returned. It was always put on the back burner.

WIth A21 we got a new XML Developer and when that happens you get new perspectives on what should take priority. One of his priority tasks was to try and balance drinks and food with the trader and in loot and that led to the issue of jars for miles and the fact that they were infinitely refillable and players were getting a stack by the end of Day 1. Removing empty jars came up again and they pulled the trigger as well as reverting the game to its original design of drinking water not returning a jar.

At the same time Madmole had designed the magazine system for crafting progression. As the team talked they decided that a new workstation that provided water could help with early to midgame water survival now that jars were gone. That would help fill out the Forge Ahead ladder as well as provide a new type of farming focused on water.

Then it was fine tuning and balancing from there. In the first iteration the uncraftable part of the dew collector was a blue barrel but that later changed to a water filter. Other changes that followed were to change loot so that pure water could no longer be found-- only murky water and that a pot was to be required once again to boil murky water into pure water. Finally, the game was reverted once again to allow players to be able to drink water directly from water sources. All of these changes significantly increased murky water as a game asset. Very few people were drinking murky water and nobody was having to deal with dysintery at all. Simply lowering stack sizes of jars would not have accomplished this. The team also felt that being able to drink straight from a water source would be a safety net for new players who might not be able to quickly find a pot and not loot enough to find enough water to keep their hydration up.

We played with these changes and really enjoyed them. Madmole added the final touch (so far) of making murky water parallel Old Shamwiches in that they hurt your health in return for improving your hydration.

That's where it is right now and there may be more minor changes by time you get your hands on it but it definitely isn't going to be reversed before the larger population gets it and plays it. The removal of empty jars has literally been years in the works and simply delayed time and time again. That is not likely to change again.

 
BFT2020 said:
Are you forgetting Electrocutioner and Turrets?  Or do you consider those to be of no value?
Click to expand...
I consider them very low value/not worth getting.. I usually fill them out when I am getting towards level 250+ and have nothing else to spend on

the stun baton might be good now with the tech junkies books/electrocutioner?? idk

If robotic turrets didn't set off demolishers I would consider turrets alot more.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jost Amman said:
The only solution is to not only remove empty jars, but also remove snowballs from the game...   :peep:
Click to expand...


If snowballs ever get removed it's no big loss since we can throw rocks at our friends lol...

Although, I would fully support poop being re added to the game to fling at our friends.  Maybe give it the sticky property like c4....😅

Hopefully people won't expect to turn poop into murky water > boiled water, etc. for realism sake...😅

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Beelzebubs Ghost said:
That is two things:

1. Garbage. Digging zombies was removed because the devs and others didn't want other players to be able to hide when they saw fit and avoid bloodmoons they weren't prepared for* - a change that certain people not only wanted, but didn't want people like me to be able to toggle on or off/ undo (without absurd suggestions like play without any bloodmoons ever or tolerate the change - which is logically fallacious, or the current bizarre mechanic of die and respawn in a bunker where you won't be targeted unless you present yourself to the zombies again.) That is not appeasing everyone, that is necessarily appeasing one party.
Click to expand...
Wait?  The devs removed digging to prevent players from hiding underground?   🤔 Man those devs are devious.

You better watch out, they are clearly out to get you.

 
Laz Man said:
If snowballs ever get removed it's no big loss since we can throw rocks at our friends lol...

Although, I would fully support poop being re added to the game to fling at our friends.  Maybe give it the sticky property like c4....😅

Hopefully people won't expect to turn poop into murky water > boiled water, etc. for realism sake...😅
Click to expand...
Realism: turning poop into murky water
Also realism: inability to melt snow for murky water

 
Laz Man said:
If snowballs ever get removed it's no big loss since we can throw rocks at our friends lol...
Click to expand...
Had this game in A17 (sorry) I think, when we were a bit bored and made some small walls in the show biome, of course a snowball fight happened. 

It was a pure, genuine fun ingame that made some great moments. 

Just for how it worked on us, and we do it irl often, being in our 30s then, was awesome. 

P.S. Wait, did DaVega is near you, rocks ? Cmon man. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BFT2020 said:
Wait?  The devs removed digging to prevent players from hiding underground?   🤔 Man those devs are devious.

You better watch out, they are clearly out to get you.
Click to expand...


Yes, and from their mouths if I recall correctly, or someone else quoting them. Their reasoning is they don't want players to be safe.

Your sarcasm would be better spent elsewhere, or convert that into time spent reading and you might save yourself the embarrassment of a poorly placed bad attitude.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Beelzebubs Ghost said:
That is two things:

1. Garbage. Digging zombies was removed because the devs and others didn't want other players to be able to hide when they saw fit and avoid bloodmoons they weren't prepared for* - a change that certain people not only wanted, but didn't want people like me to be able to toggle on or off/ undo (without absurd suggestions like play without any bloodmoons ever or tolerate the change - which is logically fallacious, or the current bizarre mechanic of die and respawn in a bunker where you won't be targeted unless you present yourself to the zombies again.) That is not appeasing everyone, that is necessarily appeasing one party.

* I wish to emphasise this, because a game that involves more player freedom to have their playstyle facilitated with toggles, or other options enabling a truly customisable and unique experience, is objectively better than one which limits the player to a certain preset.

And yes, there are people vocal on these forums in favour of less options, where I am a strong advocate of having less restriction and more freedoms (without having to resort to mods, which are inherently useless in regard to hard coded unchangeable aspects of the game.)

2. A pitiful excuse of game design. Certain aspects of the game could have been kept and reworked with some of the simple suggestions from the playerbase, like Guppy for instance.

Instead, however, things just get removed, using snow for water, and filling jars, and yet still other systems (LBD) replaced with repetitious magazine collection for example, which is an atrocious and absurd concept to me, and is; as I maintain, lazy gating in order to extend play time.

Sometimes it's the little things in survival games, using flower pots, boots, plastic or glass bottles, or other things to gather and store water, that adds the satisfaction of manually collecting and storing your own. The whole dew collection; as previously mentioned, just makes things eventually passive like farming anyway, and so getting water will become an eventual triviality. So much opportunity and yet so little taken.

So many other good aspects are gone, too - the zombie smell system, manually increasing skills by enacting them, and so much more, and what this game ends up as I fear will appear a rushed mess with many of the things we recognised as 7D gone by the by.

I could go on - the ability to rest on sofas, use them as spawn points, have more interactive appliances, more vehicles, and so on and so on and so on. As I'm writing this, however; and as sad as it is, I realise the futility, and so will end it here and await the dislikes and the apologists 😏👍🏻
Click to expand...
Water is already trivial to farm then boil. Do you really have that much trouble with water as is?

Beelzebubs Ghost said:
Yes, and from their mouths if I recall correctly, or someone else quoting them. Their reasoning is they don't want players to be safe.

Your sarcasm would be better spent elsewhere, or convert that into time spent reading and you might save yourself the embarrassment of a poorly placed bad attitude.
Click to expand...
It’s right in the title of the game.

7 Days to *Die*

 
Beelzebubs Ghost said:
Yes, and from their mouths if I recall correctly, or someone else quoting them. Their reasoning is they don't want players to be safe.

Your sarcasm would be better spent elsewhere, or convert that into time spent reading and you might save yourself the embarrassment of a poorly placed bad attitude.
Click to expand...
I am having a blast actually 😀 :popcorn:

I can also multi-task.  While being sarcastic, I was also able to whip up a small modlet for another player whose save file got corrupted so he can quickly advanced back to the previous trader tier list  😁

Sarcasm is not my only skillset

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For me its impossible the fun pimps delete the digging. Its a big part of the game including mining, treasure and the concept of 7 days to die is to be in an completely descrutible world like minecraft.

 
BFT2020 said:
I am having a blast actually 😀 :popcorn:

I can also multi-task.  While being sarcastic, I was also able to whip up a small modlet for another player whose save file got corrupted so he can quickly advanced back to the previous trader tier list  😁

Sarcasm is not my only skillset
Click to expand...


Except you didn't address me calling you out. And now this conversation is done.

No time for time wasters or trolls 👍🏻

maxousara said:
For me its impossible the fun pimps delete the digging. Its a big part of the game including mining, treasure and the concept of 7 days to die is to be in an completely descrutible world like minecraft.
Click to expand...


I didn't mean player digging, I was referring to zombie digging.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top