How about every single run through since a17? I've been drinking the murk and eating the sandwiches and throwing away jars all along, This isn't going to force me to change my playstyle at all up until late game when I need heavy production or when I play on extremely limiting settings.
Yes, accepted, Iron Gut will not be a bit better for you.
Did I claim it would force you to change your playstyle? I don't think so.
Why would I want to buy anything else? Everything else in the game is harvestable.
That's kind of the point though, even if you had infinite water in the beginning it still doesn't come into practical effect until late game anyway. Limiting the stack size on jars would've covered the start of the game while still allowing the player to harvest more later when it's more necessary.
Making 50 glue in late game would be a pain-in-the-ass inventory management hell if you limited stack size of empty and filled jars like you seem to be promoting. Starting with producing 50 empty jars in the forge where you had to remove 6 jars every minute so the next 6 jars can be produced.
Then going to a sewer and filling each jar one after the other by moving them into the toolbelt, going out of the inventory, filling that single jar, then going back into inventory, moving another empty jar into the toolbelt, ... ad nauseum. I can't imagine anyone, even you, doing this.
Simple: Make a mod of your design and play it with a few people. Tell us how it went. Maybe you'll find problems with your design that you haven't thought about yet.
You can try asking Laz if any pois are designed to be used as bases, and horde bases, or you could just look over the pois in the editor and count how many have ramps built in
I must confess I don't look at ramps specifically when I select POIs for horde base. Are you sure anyone else apart from you is doing that? The ramps I use tend to be only 1 block wide and often made out of steps instead of ramp blocks to slow down the zombies. So I always have to build them myself.
Also could you point me to POIs where the ramp seems out of place? Because a ramp is quite a normal thing in a parking garage or a store with sub-base storage rooms. Some ramps like in the house with the collapsed garage roof make the POI even unusable as horde base unless the ramp is removed.
But sure, I can also ask
@Laz Man: Were ramps build into POIs to help with base building? Were POIs designed to be good bases at all?
By the way, you could have asked him or the TFP staff in general yourself instead of simply stating your conjecture as a truth.
By reducing the number of playable scenarios. Consider a desert only map with low loot settings and no loot respawn. That's doable presently precisely because you can harvest water if you can find it. Removing the ability to harvest will cause that playthrough to be entirely up to RNG whether you last a week.
Don't think so. Even in the desert biome you will find water places in almost every town. You may have to rely more on urban areas and their sewers and swimming pools instead of the pure desert but you can make sure you are always not too far from a place with access to unlimited amounts of murky water.
Now surely it will take some effort to get the water now, but isn't that why that hypothetical player selected a desert map? I mean what else is a desert biome associated with?
Would you be surprised to find out that all of those techniques are still available to the player? It was dumb exactly because it was a pointless solution to something that wasn't a problem in the first place. POI redesign had a much greater effect on restricting access to cheese.
???? Naturally they are still available, I specifically said that TFP didn't do anything about it, because they didn't find a solution. Which isn't entirely correct because lately they moved a lot of loot rooms behind doors that can only be easily opened from one side with a key or button. So eventually they came up with a solution that at least makes some loot rooms harder to get to but still easy to escape out of.
This is why I asked why the intent was dumb, not why some solution is dumb. At the time they didn't find a good solution and I don't know what dumb solution you are even refering to above.
Note you can't know if there are solutions to a problem if you don't take a little time searching for them first. This is why I don't see how anyone can judge their looking for a solution dumb.
5 slots of empty jars when you go looting? Yeah, people aren't going to do that. At most they'd make a specific trip just to gather water and they're unlikely to even do that if they're getting enough murky water from looting.
I can only speak for my little group of co-op players that I know very well. And I know they greatly prefer tea and boiled water over murky water because they don't ever drink murky water and we usually have a good supply of teas by day 2.
In your scenario they surely would cook enough tea over night so everyone could take 5 with them. And they would simply drink them and drop the empty jars whenever they would need space for the loot they find, especially if empty jars had a stack limit of 1.
You speak of "people", but are you sure you know how they play?
Asking any readers of this: What are you drinking on say day 2 of a game? Murky water or boiled water and tea?
I agree that cooking pots are a bit too easy to come by early game, but if you limit how much water can be cooked per fire you'll just get campfire spam end game when you can just make cooking pots anyway.
I think that the reasoning behind the change is important because it gives clues as to the depth of thought that went into this and what's likely to come about during the test branch.
