PC After 4000 hours with a11-a16, I won't spend much time in a17x. Here's why... no fun!

The cart is a bit before the horse here. They estimate that in a few months they should be able to have around 300 mods. Once mods are plentiful and you have enough to fill all five slots on a purple item, quality will mean something. Presently it only means durability.
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Nothing wrong with having a higher quality item do even slightly more damage, Anything.

 
The OP has the heart of the problem spelled out gloriously clearly in the following sentiment - which I really hope TFP listens closely to. I hope people repeat it across the boards. It's worded very well:

"You're overthinking everything! Just relax and make it more fun and give freedom rather than thinking that a lot of rules and regulations will add fun because it's an added challenge. No! You don't understand! That's not how fun works! Minecraft is fun. It's a total crap game from a logical standpoint and it looks like sh* - but freedom is fun!"

Difficulty is great, survival is great. But player agency is better all day every day in every game ever. A17 makes me think that either: TFP didn't understand why what they had was good, or they fired their smart people or they hired an MMORPG consultant. The last may work out for them in the long run monetarily by creating something that is more comfortable for luds. . . but man that'd be sad and probably not work out. If I want to level grind and kill zombies, then Dying Light is just waaaay better than this 7D2D.

I'd like to add another criticism onto this thread (since it's the best critique I've read) in a similar vein that the OP may appreciate:

This build asks you to "level up" in order to survive/thrive and offers as the means of doing that the only thing that increases the danger in the game - killing zombies. It's a Catch-22. In order to survive you need to increase the danger. Someone new to game design might think, at first, that this is a good idea, since it forces players to make a difficult choice between leveling and increasing the danger. Maybe it could be if it made any sense at all, or if player progression were more nuanced, or if there were any real options, but as it stands, it instead feels simply pointless. With nothing else substantial available to do, there is no choice but to "level up" - to me this is a gob-smackingly obviously terrible design direction.

"Leveling" and "grinding" are themselves poisonous mechanical concepts in this kind of immersive sandbox game anyway, which makes it hard for me to understand why people are offering them as defenses for this build's regressions. . . Guys - most of the people offering these nuanced critiques of A17 understand basic game mechanics from the 90s. it's 2018. If you think that Archetype RPG squad combat and stat leveling are cutting edge concepts then you could do humanity a solid by thinking more and offering bad advice less.

On the recent subject of upgrading weapons - this is probably pure fantasy but I'd love to see the leveling system done away with completely and have damage be purely mod-based, for example: baseball bats, baseball bats with chains, nails, etc. Bullets overloaded with gunpowder, crossed etc. Additionally skill could go into repairing and maintaining, rather than increasing the "stats" of weapons. I'm not a fan of numbers on guns, it just spanks of being olde hat after playing "Green Hell" and "The Forest". Fantasy for this game - I know.

 
Ha! The posts saying that A17 sucks and crapping all over it aren’t going to get much traction. TFP have a vision for the game. The fact that some players don’t share that vision isn’t going to cause an about face from the devs. The posts that are going to get traction are those that accept the basic framework of A17 and make suggestions on how to improve it or bring oversights to the devs’ attention (like LCBs).
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Right. I forgot. The forums are only for posting congratulatory posts, and mild criticism wrapped in compliment sandwiches.

 
I also have only banned one person but that was for ranting and then arguing about it in the official bug report thread and only for three days. A few people who I previously banned for disrupting the forum with doom and gloom about A17 never coming out, I let back in after the experimental released. Not sure why I did that with all my lack of empathy...
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Probably because you (or someone with a m in their name) had a chance to cool off and realize what they said wasn't entirely out of line.

 
Right. I forgot. The forums are only for posting congratulatory posts, and mild criticism wrapped in compliment sandwiches.
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Really? As if the evidence in this very forum room didn't speak to how wrong that was.

I, for one, am keen to see a vigorous debate go on about the merits or otherwise of Alpha 17 specifically, and the game generally.

I, for one, make no apologies whatsoever for enforcing moderation of abusive posts, even to the point of perma-banning some people, which I've done.

Negative feedback doesn't mean having to hurl insults at the Devs (or us Moderators), and it's a shame that there is such a tendency on some small segment of people to do that, because negative feedback is particularly valuable, and indeed, is much more valuable than positive feedback.

 
I 100% agree with you, I tried the game for 2 hours max and I was like OMFG no, no, no back to a16 with Starvation. I hate A17 so my players and nothing will ever make it change my opinion. I have to say to everybody that say omg its the best thing ever, GO TRY Starvation for fun. Its 110% better and nicer than a17 and what 7 days to die should have been since the start. Waiting more than a year for what I saw is like seriously? Thats just my opinion and very disappointed, nobody has to agree with that.

 
I 100% agree with you, I tried the game for 2 hours max and I was like OMFG no, no, no back to a16 with Starvation. I hate A17 so my players and nothing will ever make it change my opinion. I have to say to everybody that say omg its the best thing ever, GO TRY Starvation for fun. Its 110% better and nicer than a17 and what 7 days to die should have been since the start. Waiting more than a year for what I saw is like seriously? Thats just my opinion and very disappointed, nobody has to agree with that.
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Petite,

What specifically about A17 didn't you like? I might even be handy to talk about what you find the Starvation Mod adding that you think A17 could have benefited from.

 
Really? As if the evidence in this very forum room didn't speak to how wrong that was.
I, for one, am keen to see a vigorous debate go on about the merits or otherwise of Alpha 17 specifically, and the game generally.

I, for one, make no apologies whatsoever for enforcing moderation of abusive posts, even to the point of perma-banning some people, which I've done.

Negative feedback doesn't mean having to hurl insults at the Devs (or us Moderators), and it's a shame that there is such a tendency on some small segment of people to do that, because negative feedback is particularly valuable, and indeed, is much more valuable than positive feedback.
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I replied specifically to someone dismissing my argument. Not you. Although I can understand by your response why you took exception. A guilty conscience can keep you up at night defending against imaginary enemies.

 
I replied specifically to someone dismissing my argument. Not you. Although I can understand by your response why you took exception. A guilty conscience can keep you up at night defending against imaginary enemies.
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I you want Roland ONLY to respond to what you're saying, then PM him, otherwise it's a public comment to which any and all can reply.

 
I you want Roland ONLY to respond to what you're saying, then PM him, otherwise it's a public comment to which any and all can reply.
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I even quoted Kosmic Kerman in my reply? Are you trolling or something?

 
I even quoted Kosmic Kerman in my reply? Are you trolling or something?
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You're right, you replied to Kosmic Kerman, not Roland. So, on that score, I'm wrong, and apologise accordingly.

I still think your statement was completely inaccurate though, so I stand by that. There's a TONNE of negative posts and threads about A17 in this forum room, so if negative opinion is being suppressed, it's being suppressed very poorly indeed.

 
Classic entitled opinions. You my friend need to move on to other games instead of ♥♥♥♥ting on this awesome game and awesome update that gave you that much good times.
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Anytime someone has a different opinion then your self. just call them entitled. it's the trump of 2018. this update has added a bunch of broken stuff that might be good when it's fixed and it's taken away so much!!! TFP wants this to be a roller coaster ride but most of us wanted a sandbox. we didn't want to play it the way TFP wants us to play it. and alpha after alpha they have taken away the ways we enjoy to play this game. If you don't like our opinion that doesn't make us entitled. that just means you enjoy playing 7days the way tfp wants you to play it. but you don't seem to be in the majority anymore.

 
Classic entitled opinions. You my friend need to move on to other games instead of ♥♥♥♥ting on this awesome game and awesome update that gave you that much good times.
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In your own personal best interest, you should probably stop coming to the forums and play something else?
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This is what you get from people who overplay early accessed games. Can handle anything that gets harder. Hates any change they see. I am sure TFP will not change the game to the previous alphas because of a rant in the forms.
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4000 hours??? thats time to consider getting a life now bud.. :(
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I still think your statement was completely inaccurate though, so I stand by that. There's a TONNE of negative posts and threads about A17 in this forum room, so if negative opinion is being suppressed, it's being suppressed very poorly indeed.
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I didn't say suppressed. Those are your words.

I would say that you and Roland are on the same bandwagon as these four examples, which have been taken from this thread. Not sure if you're as brazen, but Roland tried to be with statistics and had to retract his argument. Understand the combativeness yet? It goes both ways.

 
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It’s true. There are none who actually like A17. Just bots put out by TFP to support their changes.
You wonder and can’t understand what kind of people they are who like something you don’t?

Lol....Not-You’s.

Hate to break it to you but every single one of us is outnumbered by people who aren’t ourselves.
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Oh no, don't worry - that doesn't offend me at all.

Of course i know that we are in the minority, and the developers make the game for the mass consumer.

Now the game is what most want mass-players (...like consoles).

I just wanted to support the man with his opinion. His opinion - individually.

...although...probably not....if you've noticed.... ;)

PS: I like the technical stuff of A17. These innovations may really improve the game later.

Now it's just a... "preform". It's temporary, and it was meant to be.

But the game mechanics since A13 - this is complete crap.

(yes, i understand everything about "the desire of the vast majority of people."

But, i suspect that, however, should not be so what there is now. And so, people express such discontent.

Everything can be corrected after, but the general direction is wrong.)

 
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I see that some people are just going with the whole "dont worry we can mod that out" approach, and that is reasonable, but it is also a bit backwards compared to how mods were normally implemented to improve the game experience.

Let me explain what i mean by that.

For alpha 16 we added mods that expanded the endgame, quality of life mods, or just mods we thought would be fun for the players while still being balanced. We more or less added things onto a flawed but solid product to make it more interesting and enjoyable.

But for this alpha we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics, instead of adding things to an already strong gameplay experience, and that feels a bit counter-intuitive.

 
I see that some people are just going with the whole "dont worry we can mod that out" approach, and that is reasonable, but it is also a bit backwards compared to how mods were normally implemented to improve the game experience.
Let me explain what i mean by that.

For alpha 16 we added mods that expanded the endgame, quality of life mods, or just mods we thought would be fun for the players while still being balanced. We more or less added things onto a flawed but solid product to make it more interesting and enjoyable.

But for this alpha we might have to start working on modding out some of the new game mechanics, instead of adding things to an already strong gameplay experience, and that feels a bit counter-intuitive.
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You argument lacks validity as this is A17e ... the e being experimental.

This isn't an actual A17 release.

So... yeah.... lots of Modding is going to happen right now to make the game playable in players' eyes.

So what?

When a stable version of A17 comes out then we can discuss the "Mod it out" comments.

I'm guessing, however, that a lot of balancing issues will have been resolved by then and many other changes.

Sorry but.... Modding seems to be the only working option available to players at the moment.

Nothing wrong with that.

 
And Yes , as Guppy correctly said - "no one plays mods",

no need to shift the responsibility to mods.

so....need to make a Normal Game!

mods - are just an addition!

(here i was being disingenuous ;) )

 
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