PC V3.0 Sandbox Siege Dev Diary

theFlu said:
Yeh, it kinda feels better suited for a solo / duo experience anyway, a lone wolf -type of deal. Even if the public players were Good People (tm), it would be a different dynamic. No idea how common this is among people who pine for the golden days, but resonates with me ... :P
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I'm not sure TFP realize most people (at least, as far as I can ascertain) play it as a solo/duo -- friendly cooperative experience -- as opposed to a PvP...at least judging by the one comment that was "loved" by TFP upon the announcement of the acquisition. Kind of reminds of the Automatron DLC for Fallout 4. Is the Mechanist so focussed on statistics that "she" can't see what's really happening in the Commonwealth?

Tune in next week. Same batty time; same batty channel.
 
theFlu said:
Well, for what it's worth, I hope not. ;) And I don't think Hammer does either, but that's just a gut feeling from reading your public interactions ... (an example of how to make an unverifiable claim sound honest and unverifiable at the same time? .. ;) )
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Hmmmm...I believe the best way I can put this is:

No I don't think @Roland (the private citizen) should be banned.

My opinion of @Roland the moderator are grounds for banning me...so I can't and won't discuss them publicly. lol
 
What?! Of course they know that. It’s how they play it as well. It’s why they’ve never upped the official player count beyond 8 players and have given less than zero priority to any kind of PVP update for more than a decade.

The PVP community would show up in force to tell you how neglected they’ve been if they existed in any numbers. But Grandpa Minion might have something to say about it. 😉
 
Roland said:
What?! Of course they know that. It’s how they play it as well. It’s why they’ve never upped the official player count beyond 8 players and have given less than zero priority to any kind of PVP update for more than a decade.

The PVP community would show up in force to tell you how neglected they’ve been if they existed in any numbers. But Grandpa Minion might have something to say about it. 😉
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And I'm guessing they "loved" that comment because they though it was really funny, probably broke out laughing.
 
HammerDano said:
would it not make sense to remove the achievements for PVP from the game if it is not a PVP game? Especially if there are no plans to ever support PVP? it sends a mixed message at best.
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That is not exactly correct. (As far as I remember) TFP have said on occasion that they want to support PvP players as well, just that it is at a lower priority than other stuff, like for example finishing the game. Though they have also often said that they do not officially support more than 8 players, which probably makes PvP on a big map ... difficult.

It would not surprise me at all if 7D2D gets a PvP mode eventually. Though they will never have a chance against hackers and cheaters, even with BI in the boat. Though it is a possibility that BI will try (and fail to make money with it IMHO)
 
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HammerDano said:
would it not make sense to remove the achievements for PVP from the game if it is not a PVP game? Especially if there are no plans to ever support PVP? it sends a mixed message at best.
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I'm not sure if that is even possible on all platforms. Sony had a loyalty program that used trophies (achievements on other platforms) that represented vallue in the form of discounts. As a result of that it seems the rewards could not be changed later on, DLC achievements were seperated from the base game. Thanks to crossplay I can imagine this also affects Steam and Xbox.
 
I wouldn't call "Kill 25 players" really an achievement in a true PvP game and that is the most elite PvP achievement the game offers (out of 4 total). I think the achievements send a clear signal that this game isn't really focused on PvP...

What they should do is change it from "players" to "humans" so that bandits are included in the description (even though they already count in actual gameplay). Then they can increase the numbers to actual achievement worthy levels and everyone can clear them once bandits release.
 
Roland said:
I wouldn't call "Kill 25 players" really an achievement in a true PvP game and that is the most elite PvP achievement the game offers (out of 4 total). I think the achievements send a clear signal that this game isn't really focused on PvP...

What they should do is change it from "players" to "humans" so that bandits are included in the description (even though they already count in actual gameplay). Then they can increase the numbers to actual achievement worthy levels and everyone can clear them once bandits release.
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I don't disagree that changing the wording would make it make more sense in the present.
I do disagree that they are not "really" PVP achievements. They are a hold over from the early days, before development left PVP in this games past.

meganoth said:
That is not exactly correct. (As far as I remember) TFP have said on occasion that they want to support PvP players as well, just that it is at a lower priority than other stuff, like for example finishing the game. Though they have also often said that they do not officially support more than 8 players, which probably makes PvP on a big map ... difficult.

It would not surprise me at all if 7D2D gets a PvP mode eventually. Though they will never have a chance against hackers and cheaters, even with BI in the boat. Though it is a possibility that BI will try (and fail to make money with it IMHO)
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I do remember some vague, noncommittal wording about maybe someday they might support PVP again. I am saying that they have not in years...and last time we got any sniff about the future, it was faatal was saying they had a plans for the next 22 months of development...so it will likely take years if at all.


To both of you...I am not saying this is important...remove the achievements or don't. I just think that if they were as tired of hearing about this as you are, then removing the achievements would help remove the arguments.

While I admire GM will, by hook or by crook, invest endless hours making his servers as viable as he can, it is unrequited.
 
Roland said:
I wouldn't call "Kill 25 players" really an achievement in a true PvP game and that is the most elite PvP achievement the game offers (out of 4 total). I think the achievements send a clear signal that this game isn't really focused on PvP...

What they should do is change it from "players" to "humans" so that bandits are included in the description (even though they already count in actual gameplay). Then they can increase the numbers to actual achievement worthy levels and everyone can clear them once bandits release.
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Yeah, the achievements for killing other players aren't really PVP achievements beyond what you might call tutorial achievements. If you are playing PVP in a game like this and can't manage to kill 25 people in the first few hours of play, then you're really bad at PVP. If it was killing 100 players, then that would be more of a PVP achievement. As it is, the majority of people who have completed that achievement (which is only a small percentage of players) have done so either while using NPC mods since those count as player kills or by agreeing with other players to kill each other to get the achievement (that's not real PVP) or by friendly fire if that setting is on (which also isn't real PVP).
 
Roland said:
I'm not tired of hearing about this and I don't think they are either. So no worries.
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be more believable if you didn't take every and any opportunity to chime in to troll, laugh at, or make light of this topic, whenever PVP comes up.

PVP was once part of this game...It was. It isn't anymore (except for those who are very determined).
it isn't an element I would like back...but...I wouldn't be mad if there was a separate game mode for it someday. I just don't see that happening.
 
Roland said:
I wouldn't call "Kill 25 players" really an achievement in a true PvP game and that is the most elite PvP achievement the game offers (out of 4 total). I think the achievements send a clear signal that this game isn't really focused on PvP...

What they should do is change it from "players" to "humans" so that bandits are included in the description (even though they already count in actual gameplay). Then they can increase the numbers to actual achievement worthy levels and everyone can clear them once bandits release.
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On that note, there really should be more achievements. With a game you can easily spend thousands of hours; it seems weird the achievements are all pretty simple. Although DBD takes it a little far with 250+ achievements lol.
 
smedic55 said:
On that note, there really should be more achievements. With a game you can easily spend thousands of hours; it seems weird the achievements are all pretty simple. Although DBD takes it a little far with 250+ achievements lol.
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Try mcc with like 500

Side note about the pvp stuff there is some stuff that fits with pvp games like the achievements but stuff like the landclaim I think is just the devs way to claim the area i remember someone talk about that and it's a yes and no kinda answer

Also please we be starving for real news and a X post or something the sham sandwich does so much
 
Honestly what I;'d like to see is the armor sets get another pass (lot of very boring or somewhat OP pieces), and maybe sit and think of something to replace the double xp Sledgehammer book with.
 
Adam the Waster said:
Try mcc with like 500
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I didn't think that was serious so I checked and I have 58/700
Suppose it makes sense, it being multiple games in one library entry, but dang

Does Steam have special rules regarding achievements? It would kind of make sense both ways, if there's limits on adding/removing/changing achievements willy-nilly or not
 
smedic55 said:
On that note, there really should be more achievements. With a game you can easily spend thousands of hours; it seems weird the achievements are all pretty simple. Although DBD takes it a little far with 250+ achievements lol.
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I think more achievements would make sense for a game that has such a large average play time. I love achievements, though I'm not really a fan of a bunch of achievements that are things like completed tutorial, completed map 1, completed act 1, etc. At least make them things that you might have completed during those things... instead of something like completed act 1, have it be something like defeated boss 1. That's of course a general statement for games and not specific to this one, which doesn't have acts or bosses. I prefer achievements that actually require some effort, though. I'm also not a fan of games that have DLC achievements mixed into the base game achievements, preventing someone from getting 100% unless they buy those DLC, or games with PVP achievements that can't be completed without playing PVP. The 25 kills one and the lower ones are fine since they can be done very quickly by someone not interested in PVP by just doing it with a friend, but having something like 1000 kills isn't something I want to see.

Ostentatio said:
I didn't think that was serious so I checked and I have 58/700
Suppose it makes sense, it being multiple games in one library entry, but dang

Does Steam have special rules regarding achievements? It would kind of make sense both ways, if there's limits on adding/removing/changing achievements willy-nilly or not
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AFAIK, games can add/remove/change achievements whenever they want. However, there are a lot of people who for to complete 100% of achievements who get very upset when a game that was completed now is only 50% complete or whatever. So if they add more achievements, I think they should plan on doing it only one time and then leave it. That means making sure they know every achievement they want and add them in a single update (probably the story update since that's supposed to be the full release version).
 
Riamus said:
I think more achievements would make sense for a game that has such a large average play time. I love achievements, though I'm not really a fan of a bunch of achievements that are things like completed tutorial, completed map 1, completed act 1, etc. At least make them things that you might have completed during those things... instead of something like completed act 1, have it be something like defeated boss 1. That's of course a general statement for games and not specific to this one, which doesn't have acts or bosses. I prefer achievements that actually require some effort, though. I'm also not a fan of games that have DLC achievements mixed into the base game achievements, preventing someone from getting 100% unless they buy those DLC, or games with PVP achievements that can't be completed without playing PVP. The 25 kills one and the lower ones are fine since they can be done very quickly by someone not interested in PVP by just doing it with a friend, but having something like 1000 kills isn't something I want to see.


AFAIK, games can add/remove/change achievements whenever they want. However, there are a lot of people who for to complete 100% of achievements who get very upset when a game that was completed now is only 50% complete or whatever. So if they add more achievements, I think they should plan on doing it only one time and then leave it. That means making sure they know every achievement they want and add them in a single update (probably the story update since that's supposed to be the full release version).
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Dont freakin touch my 100% :p
 
I don't mind when games add more achievements, except when they have a specific achievement for doing everything, and then they add more achievements, making my 100% meaningless.
 
Roland said:
I wouldn't call "Kill 25 players" really an achievement in a true PvP game and that is the most elite PvP achievement the game offers (out of 4 total). I think the achievements send a clear signal that this game isn't really focused on PvP...

What they should do is change it from "players" to "humans" so that bandits are included in the description (even though they already count in actual gameplay). Then they can increase the numbers to actual achievement worthy levels and everyone can clear them once bandits release.
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For reasons mentioned earlier it can't be changed as it is already part of the 100%/platinum or whatever it's called on any platform, thanks to the shackles of crossplay.

But indeed only 25 kills... That's a lazy round in Hell Let Loose on a drunk monday morning.
 
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