They are bring a hybrid LBD!

IzPrebuilt said:
"pushback" and it's 4 people jerking themselves off in an obscure internet forum.

You COULD actually go and engage with the broader community on youtube and other social medias and see how little "pushback" there actually is
Click to expand...
The issue is that you are so jaded on the issue you can't have fair dialogue without thinking everyone is an idiot.

If you have read my posts you would know I actually think a combination system of perks and LBD would be the best implementation.

That being said outside of it being from A16 I don't think LBD fixes anything fundamental about the core game design, but I am not against it either.

If you would spend less time making fun of the people you are trying to have a conversation with and more time actually discussing what the pros and cons are for various ideas perhaps you would gain more traction with the community that YOU are addressing as the funny thing is that I agree with a large portion of what you have said in videos and only disagree on a few smaller points but its your approach that makes it all less engaging.
 
Kyoji said:
The issue is that you are so jaded on the issue you can't have fair dialogue without thinking everyone is an idiot.

If you have read my posts you would know I actually think a combination system of perks and LBD would be the best implementation.

That being said outside of it being from A16 I don't think LBD fixes anything fundamental about the core game design, but I am not against it either.

If you would spend less time making fun of the people you are trying to have a conversation with and more time actually discussing what the pros and cons are for various ideas perhaps you would gain more traction with the community that YOU are addressing as the funny thing is that I agree with a large portion of what you have said in videos and only disagree on a few smaller points but its your approach that makes it all less engaging.
Click to expand...
I wonder why he's still wasting time here on such an obscure forum full of losers. :unsure:
 
IzPrebuilt said:
"pushback" and it's 4 people jerking themselves off in an obscure internet forum.
Click to expand...

Hey now, play nice.
Post automatically merged:

7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
I hope that one of the developers will visit here at some point.
Click to expand...

Why? The conversation is about an old solution vs the current solution. There's nothing in it for a Dev to find useful. If there's to be a hybrid system, now would be the time to talk about how it might work. Then maybe a useful idea would percolate up.
 
LBD made it very difficult to level some skills. Magazines solved that, but there are so many to read it left magazine fatigue. I also wanted a system that can scale past 100 to go with the new inspired from old weapon combine system. So to make it all work there will be less magazines in loot providing maybe half the skill xp, with actions filling the other half. Magazines can level skills that don't have a decent action skill more, and ones that do, less. So magazines and actions will overdrive skills past 100 but it will get harder and slower, but I don't like skill caps they ruin your incentive to play. So there will be weapons and items all with magnitudes going up and up, but it will take a very high skill level to craft the best item because stats will be randomized, but the combine system lets you keep the best stats of the two items combined, so over time players can acquire the best items in the game through crafting and looting and combining, buying etc. Right now you hit a wall with purple and it's game over on the progression.

So we want to create endless progression to skills, items, mods, everything in the game, even cooking pots will have a cooking speed baked into a stat so you'll always be finding/crafting better stuff. Imagine a 200% fuel saver late game, but the first one is 10%, based on game stage for looting or your crafting skill.

It's a big change but one that will add legs to looting/crafting/purchasing. Right now I kind of stop buying stuff from the trader, but if he had a purple auto shotgun that had ONE stat better than my purple shotgun, I'd buy it and combine the two. So the economy will be transformed as well. I'm super excited about these features.
 
madmole said:
LBD made it very difficult to level some skills. Magazines solved that, but there are so many to read it left magazine fatigue. I also wanted a system that can scale past 100 to go with the new inspired from old weapon combine system. So to make it all work there will be less magazines in loot providing maybe half the skill xp, with actions filling the other half. Magazines can level skills that don't have a decent action skill more, and ones that do, less. So magazines and actions will overdrive skills past 100 but it will get harder and slower, but I don't like skill caps they ruin your incentive to play. So there will be weapons and items all with magnitudes going up and up, but it will take a very high skill level to craft the best item because stats will be randomized, but the combine system lets you keep the best stats of the two items combined, so over time players can acquire the best items in the game through crafting and looting and combining, buying etc. Right now you hit a wall with purple and it's game over on the progression.

So we want to create endless progression to skills, items, mods, everything in the game, even cooking pots will have a cooking speed baked into a stat so you'll always be finding/crafting better stuff. Imagine a 200% fuel saver late game, but the first one is 10%, based on game stage for looting or your crafting skill.

It's a big change but one that will add legs to looting/crafting/purchasing. Right now I kind of stop buying stuff from the trader, but if he had a purple auto shotgun that had ONE stat better than my purple shotgun, I'd buy it and combine the two. So the economy will be transformed as well. I'm super excited about these features.
Click to expand...
YEEEEESSS!!!
 

Attachments

  • jack-nicholson-jack.gif
    jack-nicholson-jack.gif
    1.8 MB · Views: 0
madmole said:
So we want to create endless progression to...
Click to expand...

That's certainly food for thought and I'm not sure I entirely understand it all yet. I appreciate you sharing your thinking on the matter and your enthusiasm for the possibilities you see.

Trying to roll what you just presented around in my mind, what seems hard for me to foresee is the various categories and how they might improve. I could see where that is a complicated tangle, perhaps with some sacred cows.

Endless progression sounds intriguing. I could get excited about being able to improve my Stealth skills further, perhaps even endlessly through the life of the character, beyond what I can do today with skill points and equipment.

With regard to crafting, the combination of equipment (or their parts) in pursuit of superior equipment sounds neat. If it also takes a high skill level to do those combines, or get the most out of the combinations of parts, then what leads to a high skill level?
 
@madmole Thank you for sharing.

@zztong I think it means "endless", in that if you are willing to make 7d2d your gaming life, then there will always be that extra 1% of improvement. Open ended sorta speak. You know, for the level 300 over achievers.

I am probably wrong, but "heeeeey!"...
 
Morloc said:
THIS SHOULD BE PINNED AND IMMORTALIZED SOMEWHERE HERE!

💀
Click to expand...
People don't complain about minecraft not being finished because minecraft WAS finished. Minecraft has a version 1.0 that came out like 15 years ago that had everything that was promised as the core of the game. It was finished when the ender dragon was done.

7 days to die has a 1.0 but it's lacking bandits and a story so it's a fake 1.0. The game won't be "finished" until it has the features that were in the kickstarter that allowed the game to exist.
Post automatically merged:

madmole said:
LBD made it very difficult to level some skills. Magazines solved that, but there are so many to read it left magazine fatigue...
Click to expand...
This sounds good IMO. The one thing I'm seeing a lot of skepticism on for LBD that is stopping some people wanting it is the idea of "Spam crafting" the old thing where you'd make 1000 stone axes to make stone axes.

Do you have a plan to stop that issue or is it just a symptom of LBD?

Additional note: A16.4 ofc fixed spam crafting but I assume gating progression by player level is not what you'd want to do any more?
 
madmole said:
So there will be weapons and items all with magnitudes going up and up, but it will take a very high skill level to craft the best item because stats will be randomized, but the combine system lets you keep the best stats of the two items combined, so over time players can acquire the best items in the game through crafting and looting and combining, buying etc. Right now you hit a wall with purple and it's game over on the progression.

So we want to create endless progression to skills, items, mods, everything in the game, even cooking pots will have a cooking speed baked into a stat so you'll always be finding/crafting better stuff. Imagine a 200% fuel saver late game, but the first one is 10%, based on game stage for looting or your crafting skill.

It's a big change but one that will add legs to looting/crafting/purchasing. Right now I kind of stop buying stuff from the trader, but if he had a purple auto shotgun that had ONE stat better than my purple shotgun, I'd buy it and combine the two. So the economy will be transformed as well. I'm super excited about these features.
Click to expand...
Ugh. So you are going to make this Diablo? I like Diablo, but that isn't what I look for with this game.
 
7DaysToDieEnjoyer said:
It would be interesting if TFP did a poll asking, "Which system do you prefer?" From what I've seen on social media and other polls, magazines are almost always chosen by a tiny minority, maybe just over 1%. The “learn by doing” and hybrid systems usually dominate, and “learn by doing” also gets pretty good results. We're talking hundreds of thousands of people. Of course, not everyone votes, and not everyone wants the “learn by doing” system. Almost no one chooses books, and the hybrid system is usually picked by more than half of the people. Obviously, it’s not fully representative since not everyone votes, but in my opinion, hybrid is something they will definitely implement.

Currently, crafting uses books numbered 1–100, which makes collecting them a real hassle. This system will likely become more “learn by doing” with fewer books, which will significantly reduce the role of books. Individual volumes 1–7 will be harder to find. They might add some action skills, but only for combat and resource gathering, and they will probably be much simpler than before since it’s meant to be a system for everyone. Attributes won’t change you’ll still invest levels in them, with bonus EXP for each perk in a given attribute, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Polls are very inaccurate. Place it on Reddit or YouTube and you'll get a preference for LBD. Place it here, it might get about 50/50. Place it somewhere else, it might be more against LBD. And in all cases, you're polling about 0.01% of the players (or less), making it not a valid set of results. And you can't easily ask if people prefer a hybrid without giving specific details on what that hybrid entails. A hybrid includes EVERYTHING between full LBD and full LBR, which isn't going to be something you can honestly vote on since it could be something you hate or love depending where it is on that spectrum.
 
zztong said:
That's certainly food for thought and I'm not sure I entirely understand it all yet. I appreciate you sharing your thinking on the matter and your enthusiasm for the possibilities you see.

Trying to roll what you just presented around in my mind, what seems hard for me to foresee is the various categories and how they might improve. I could see where that is a complicated tangle, perhaps with some sacred cows.

Endless progression sounds intriguing. I could get excited about being able to improve my Stealth skills further, perhaps even endlessly through the life of the character, beyond what I can do today with skill points and equipment.

With regard to crafting, the combination of equipment (or their parts) in pursuit of superior equipment sounds neat. If it also takes a high skill level to do those combines, or get the most out of the combinations of parts, then what leads to a high skill level?
Click to expand...
To clarify, I meant near endless progression with crafting/looting/buying. Perks will not be touched, but imaging finding a cooking pot that cooks 10% faster than the one you have already, same with most things in the game. Combine two items into a better one. Perma degradation and the only way to get ol faithful running again (A rare legendary gun not repaired with repair kits) is to find another one and combine them in the workbench. That kind of thing. Crafting skills might max out at 200-400? But what you get from 100 to 200 is more like what you get now going from 90-100, so increases get more granular later game. Still to me as a player that's incentive to keep playing, even if things have slowed down some.
Post automatically merged:

Riamus said:
Polls are very inaccurate. Place it on Reddit or YouTube and you'll get a preference for LBD. Place it here, it might get about 50/50. Place it somewhere else, it might be more against LBD. And in all cases, you're polling about 0.01% of the players (or less), making it not a valid set of results. And you can't easily ask if people prefer a hybrid without giving specific details on what that hybrid entails. A hybrid includes EVERYTHING between full LBD and full LBR, which isn't going to be something you can honestly vote on since it could be something you hate or love depending where it is on that spectrum.
Click to expand...
I think the hybrid will work great. Can't find another magazine, just play the game and get some gains that way.
 
madmole said:
LBD made it very difficult to level some skills. Magazines solved that, but there are so many to read it left magazine fatigue. I also wanted a system that can scale past 100 to go with the new inspired from old weapon combine system. So to make it all work there will be less magazines in loot providing maybe half the skill xp, with actions filling the other half. Magazines can level skills that don't have a decent action skill more, and ones that do, less. So magazines and actions will overdrive skills past 100 but it will get harder and slower, but I don't like skill caps they ruin your incentive to play. So there will be weapons and items all with magnitudes going up and up, but it will take a very high skill level to craft the best item because stats will be randomized, but the combine system lets you keep the best stats of the two items combined, so over time players can acquire the best items in the game through crafting and looting and combining, buying etc. Right now you hit a wall with purple and it's game over on the progression.

So we want to create endless progression to skills, items, mods, everything in the game, even cooking pots will have a cooking speed baked into a stat so you'll always be finding/crafting better stuff. Imagine a 200% fuel saver late game, but the first one is 10%, based on game stage for looting or your crafting skill.

It's a big change but one that will add legs to looting/crafting/purchasing. Right now I kind of stop buying stuff from the trader, but if he had a purple auto shotgun that had ONE stat better than my purple shotgun, I'd buy it and combine the two. So the economy will be transformed as well. I'm super excited about these features.
Click to expand...
how much longer are you going to take to finish the game? seriously...how many more years? Shouldn't YOU have been sure of what you were doing BEFORE you acted like you guys finally had your ■■■■ together?
 
Riamus said:
Polls are very inaccurate. Place it on Reddit or YouTube and you'll get a preference for LBD. Place it here, it might get about 50/50. Place it somewhere else, it might be more against LBD. And in all cases, you're polling about 0.01% of the players (or less), making it not a valid set of results. And you can't easily ask if people prefer a hybrid without giving specific details on what that hybrid entails. A hybrid includes EVERYTHING between full LBD and full LBR, which isn't going to be something you can honestly vote on since it could be something you hate or love depending where it is on that spectrum.
Click to expand...
Even if people choose learn by doing or a hybrid approach, it’s not always because they want to, but it’s clear that they prefer any other system over collecting a huge pile of books.
 
madmole said:
LBD made it very difficult to level some skills. Magazines solved that, but there are so many to read it left magazine fatigue.
Click to expand...
To be totally accurate... magazines solved the crafting level issue, not the action skills level-up issue of LBD.
Skill points (the current level-up mechanics) already solved the action skills level-up issue with LBD.

And that's why I like the skill point way more than LBD honestly.

Side note:
Thanks for taking the time to reply in this obscure internet forum! :sneaky:
How'd you find it? :unsure:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top