PC V1.2 b22 EXP (updated to b24)

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Thank you for being reasonable. 

Out of all the things that didn't get answered...I have to ask this again: How much of the roadmap features have been left to Titanium to work out/accomplish?
Titanium primarily works on console and doing technical improvements. Occasionally a redesign, like the controller revamp, will be done by one of them.

I'm not really sure what that means. 

I assume it means when the screen is lit but I've come across a lit up TV and it made no sound. Do I have to put a light in the room maybe? Does it have to be during daylight?

Also the animal spawn rate is crazy now. I hope it's like this just so we will definitely get the opportunity to see the new models. Otherwise it will make getting meat ridiculously too easy, and turn it into a nonfactor. 
It means when the TV is on, it plays the sound. Yes, some of our descriptions could be better.

Animal spawns may need to be balanced downward due to my fix with biome spawn timers getting broken, which happened a lot as players entered and then left areas. Part of the fix detects old broken timers, so each area will start spawning again, but the increase may be short lived as it evens out over time.

 
Can anyone explain what this means?
Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party.

 
Considering the state of the game then and the state of the game now, I am happy that they didn't just stop development back then.  You may not like it, but that is the risk of getting an early access game.  It often takes longer than expected, and in many cases they do just give up and give you an unfinished product that isn't as good as it could have been had they contributed development. I definitely prefer the delay to get a finished product.  But there is nothing wrong with you having the opposite view on it.  Unfortunately for that view, you will need to wait for the finished product. 

But consider this... If you wanted to have development end back then, you could have just played that version and never updated.  The result would be the same.  At least this way, we get more than we would have had.  And this game has provided far more hours on average for players than almost any other game other than MMO games.


From my own console centric point of view...I didn't care that they kept working on the game. I cared that they didn't protect the console gamers.

I wish they had learned from their past mistakes, but, that doesn't seem to be happening. Too many of you telling me this is just the TFP way...and I need to get on board or get out. There's zero chance I will support them in the future. I don't have enough life left to waste it on people who can't meet a deadline. I am glad they put out a post today. I do hope they are learning...we'll see.

I do appreciate you taking the time.

 
Titanium primarily works on console and doing technical improvements. Occasionally a redesign, like the controller revamp, will be done by one of them.
 I appreciate you are busy, but, for clarification. What does that mean? since  the current version IS the console version. In the interest of not getting a lawyered answer. Are Titanium working on figuring out how to implement the roadmap? Or is that still on the PC/TFP side to work out? thank you.

 
 I appreciate you are busy, but, for clarification. What does that mean? since  the current version IS the console version. In the interest of not getting a lawyered answer. Are Titanium working on figuring out how to implement the roadmap? Or is that still on the PC/TFP side to work out? thank you.
Regarding “the current version IS the console version”… Feature parity between PC and console is not always automatic. As TFP adds new features, those features may require additional support to work correctly on consoles. For example, any time something changes where the controls work differently, that needs to be hashed out both for PC keyboards and console controllers, complete with different UI and localization per platform. That would likely be a candidate for TFP handing it off to a third party like Titanium to make everything work on consoles.

For the avoidance of doubt, TFP always determines the vision and design of the game.

 
Regarding “the current version IS the console version”… Feature parity between PC and console is not always automatic. As TFP adds new features, those features may require additional support to work correctly on consoles. For example, any time something changes where the controls work differently, that needs to be hashed out both for PC keyboards and console controllers, complete with different UI and localization per platform. That would likely be a candidate for TFP handing it off to a third party like Titanium to make everything work on consoles.

For the avoidance of doubt, TFP always determines the vision and design of the game.


Thank you...completely clear.

 
I can certainly understand why so many PC gamers feel like they profited from this game. You have gotten new skins, and new progression schemes to try out, year after year...I am not the only person to point out THAT has not created a lot of progress, but, you guys want to believe it was progress.


Forget the skins, but their experimentation has provided me with a new fresh game each year. I don't care if anyone else calls it progress, regress, overdress. A new game each year.

Yeah, they added a lot of pre built asset POI's, I won't argue that adding those takes some time. I wouldn't say it was the hard stuff either. it isn't hard to believe that they were stalling for time...because they had no idea how to implement their ideas.I have pointed out that since 2019, they have been dumbing down the PC version to make it work on console...ignoring all of the PC community's "petty" squabbling over jars and such.


It seems to me in that in this paragraph you build up a theorie why they might have done something, then assume this as fact. And then you argue because of those facts we are idiots.

If jars is one of your examples for dumbing down the game for console then it is a pretty bad example. The major reasons for jar removal were laid out before us and they were reasonable. And we even guessed some of them before they even were explained which seems like a good indication that they are valid reasons.

And for FPS and therefore console the removal of jars did absolutely nothing.

Also if you had a PC version and a relatively low level PC you would have noticed that even PC players (and TFP themselves) were not happy about FPS in cities or on horde night. So more FPS benefits us too, we can turn up zombie count on stronger machines. There definitely was a lot of work on optimizations going on, but that was to the benefit of us PC players too. At the same time graphics quality of the game increased steadily. If they really were doing everything to get it on console they wouldn't have done that. It surely made the porting work more difficult.

It all falls on Deaf ears...it's ridiculous...people saying "how are they dumbing it down...they don't have to". Like it's not a reality that PC has more capability...that your version could not be "better" than it is or has been.


No. If you search the forum you will find lots of complaints about performance. From PC players.

It's not just the inability to meet deadlines...or the lack of communication. It's all of it together. They would have been better off pursuing a development timeline like Rust. All of consoles updates come from PC...the two games do not have the exact same features, but, working on both simultaneously has optimized the game faster than doing one at a time. They sell skins to help defray development costs, no one is mad at them. they actually communicate when something they thought they could get done...doesn't...people don't get mad about it, because they communicate.


I am not too happy about the planned skin DLC while development is ongoing, the saving grace is that it is (supposed to be) totally optional. I would be totally ok with such a DLC if it happened for the finished game. I think I know why they are doing it now though: The game had an official release, even if unfinished. If they don't push out a DLC now nobody wil buy it. Since the DLC is there to earn money (which is one of the goals of a game company) it was now or never. 

It can only be something as dumb as fanboyism that makes otherwise intelligent people disregard these things...I would think especially after more than a decade...but...y'all prove me wrong.


I don't have your standards, your ideology, your tastes or your moral compass. I have my own. Under my standards TFP has not violated rules I see as no-go's and has done a lot of things right. Especially the direction of their development since A15 was largely very much in line of my tastes. Now if someone wants a different game at the end he could be disappointed and declare everyone who is happy with the state of the game an idiot. Like you just did.

You seem so unhappy about the direction the game has taken (dumbin down, jars), doesn't it follow that that might color your attitude as well?

I have a question...how much of the roadmap features are they relying on Titanium to work out? 


I don't know. I am just a player. And as a player I don't much care who does the work. But I doubt that a few guys (assuming it is just a handful) could do feature development work on the side when there is a console port to do 

I ask because they have said they would go gold more than once over the years. 2019 and 2021 come to mind. and they planned on not working on the game 3 years after going gold...well do the math...it's still 2024...barely. so shouldn't the game be done? INCLUDING weather, bandits, and story? 

As previously mentioned...they worked on bandits but couldn't get it to work...yet. Story? admittedly not that important to me...but...still something they have been supposed to work on implementing...how hard is it to add lore...I don't know and apparently TFP don't either.


And that is the crux of the matter. Time until a game is finished does not matter to me. I also played Factorio for a long time which needed 7-8 years to get to 1.0 and another 3-4 years, half of it without any communication, for 2.0. I did not mind. I accept this, development takes a long time, and programmers have wildly different lps (lines per second) actually. I am sure you don't want TFP to start treating their developers as expendable like many other studios and burn them out with regular crunch times. A long development time should be expected for games that start early in development in Early Access (unlike many EA games who use EA just for a beta phase shortly before release.

For you time comes up in almost every post where you now call us idiots for accepting it. Maybe simply accept that many of us have different values and expectations than you.

 
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Bloodmoon parties (which is now players within 80m of any other player added to the party) now cap the amount of enemies spawned at one time to 30 (subject to change) to improve FPS. An 8 player group with the default setting of 8 per player, would have gotten 64 active enemies. To compensate for less enemies, the game stage increases based on the ratio. The game has global enemy caps and game stage maxAlive caps, but this helps with the specific case of FPS tanking during blood moons for a BM party.
Please dont tell me this means the max of 64 zombies alive at once on a bloodmoon night is being removed.  

 
Please dont tell me this means the max of 64 zombies alive at once on a bloodmoon night is being removed.  
Yeah, that should definitely be optional.  If people are tanking FPS with the zombie count, let them lower the count.  But I have a 6 year old computer that was only a low to mid level gaming desktop when I bought it and is very outdated now.  I've only added more RAM and a hard drive since then.  Yet I have never had a problem with horde night FPS.  I have a lot of trouble in a city when driving fast, where stuff doesn't load quickly enough, but never a problem on horde night, regardless the number of players or zombies.  This is something that is related specifically to hardware and as my own experience shows, even older hardware can handle it, depending what it is.  In some cases, it can even handle it better, though it may perform worse in other situations.  I don't think they should reduce zombies without an option to increase them again.  I have a feeling it will be easy to mod, but it shouldn't be necessary to mod.  You already have an in-game option for zombie count on horde night.

 
From my own console centric point of view...I didn't care that they kept working on the game. I cared that they didn't protect the console gamers.

I wish they had learned from their past mistakes, but, that doesn't seem to be happening. Too many of you telling me this is just the TFP way...and I need to get on board or get out. There's zero chance I will support them in the future. I don't have enough life left to waste it on people who can't meet a deadline. I am glad they put out a post today. I do hope they are learning...we'll see.

I do appreciate you taking the time.
Protect the console gamer? 

It was a licensing issue.  They had no control over the license for console because that was sold to tell tale.  This sort of thing happens ALL the time.  A small studio, that doesn't have the resources to port over to console, will sell all rights and ownership of the license to a more experienced developer.  When Telltale went under, everything they owned was sold, including the console license for 7d2d.  TFP did not have the resources to buy that license back, so they had to wait until they could afford to buy it from the current owner.

Now that they are big enough they could hire another studio, who has the experience and knowledge on porting pc to current gen console, they did just that.  They didn't have to sell their license again.  

 
Yeah, that should definitely be optional.  If people are tanking FPS with the zombie count, let them lower the count.  But I have a 6 year old computer that was only a low to mid level gaming desktop when I bought it and is very outdated now.  I've only added more RAM and a hard drive since then.  Yet I have never had a problem with horde night FPS.  I have a lot of trouble in a city when driving fast, where stuff doesn't load quickly enough, but never a problem on horde night, regardless the number of players or zombies.  This is something that is related specifically to hardware and as my own experience shows, even older hardware can handle it, depending what it is.  In some cases, it can even handle it better, though it may perform worse in other situations.  I don't think they should reduce zombies without an option to increase them again.  I have a feeling it will be easy to mod, but it shouldn't be necessary to mod.  You already have an in-game option for zombie count on horde night.
Game would run even better with having max of 3 zombies on horde night.  Make it so.  
 

@faatalplease leave 64 as an option.  PCs are getting better and better all the time.   Many of us run with 64 max with no issues

 
 I appreciate you are busy, but, for clarification. What does that mean? since  the current version IS the console version. In the interest of not getting a lawyered answer. Are Titanium working on figuring out how to implement the roadmap? Or is that still on the PC/TFP side to work out? thank you.
We all work out of a shared code base (trunk) and code has console checks if a feature needs to be enabled or work differently on console. That code base is used to make daily PC/Mac/Linux builds. Titanium also makes console builds of that as needed. Testers can grab those PC/Mac/Linux or console builds whenever they want to update and test. Currently we also merge trunk code changes to a V1 branch for experimental and stable releases as many changes to trunk are only for 2.0.

 
Please dont tell me this means the max of 64 zombies alive at once on a bloodmoon night is being removed.  
The 64 setting is still there, but the game was already clamping that number with multiple players. Now what the game does with that number is more aggressive. I just played two BMs with two other players with it at 64 and the reduced number of zombies was not missed. We had plenty to kill.

This stuff is not locked in stone. As hardware changes or other optimizations happen, it can be changed.

 
That's a ridiculous statement, I think it's safe to say that not everyone agrees as has been discussed to death on this forum many times.
Indeed, discussed to death on this forum and elsewhere because it was an extremely controversial change which broke unique playstyles and forces everyone down the same path of opening mailboxes to find magazines they don't need. The reason it is so controversial and still being discussed to death is because it is widely accepted by long-term players this was a bad change. The learn-by-doing system was better in every way and some combination of the two would work best. 

 
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Frozen mate... let it go.....

LBD is never coming back. TFP have their vision  whatever you want to call it. 

Basically it is their game they will do what they want and you or anybody moaning about it is just wasting your time and effort. 

The game is what it is and we have to live with it or not play it if you dont like it. 

every alpha since 10 i thought the game was done. there is a lot of complexity the game has lost over all those years but a lot of new systems have been added.

Overall the game is better than it used to be. 

Personally i have over 3000 hrs in game. i have enjoyed every one of them. At 0.008c per hour played i think i got my moneys worth and it still is being worked on and improved.. 

If you don like change there is a good book you should read call "Who moved my cheese" 

 
The 64 setting is still there, but the game was already clamping that number with multiple players. Now what the game does with that number is more aggressive. I just played two BMs with two other players with it at 64 and the reduced number of zombies was not missed. We had plenty to kill.

This stuff is not locked in stone. As hardware changes or other optimizations happen, it can be changed.
Pardon my ignorance m…If u played with 64 max alive how was there reduced zombies.  ?

 
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