PC Why did you ruin your game?

[theFlu]

In any case, LBD isn't sandbox by any stretch of the word.

Distinction without difference; I could argue that action-based learning doesn't limit your actions at all, and you could argue that having to loot mailboxes doesn't limit your actions at all. Both might be true in a sense, but the game isn't promising to Be a true sandbox; so none of it matters. And for that there's godmode/creative/disable enemies.

I don't know, I just find your crusade against the applications of the word odd and meaningless. It's not helping anyone phrase their intentions better.

 

[Riamus]

So in your opinion the current trend of the games systems could be described as open world sandbox survival? Things like quests instead of scavenging. Progression caps. Etc. A lot of that doesn't seem to fall into those categories and it's not just about jars and LBD.

Also when I say go back to those elements I am referring to focusing on those elements. While you can have RPG elements in a sandbox game they are not themselves sandbox.

So things like magic armor, perks, etc would fall into that.

This isn't to say I want to remove every RPG mechanic but that a lot of the frustration stems from the change of focus to it.

Are you intentionally trying to twist or misunderstand what I say? Did I talk about trends? Did I even mention survival or scavenging?

I said that sandbox is misused and misunderstood. The end.

The current game, if played with creative mode on and god mode on is absolutely a sandbox experience. Unfortunately, console doesn't have access to either. But for PC players, the option is there. But they don't want it because that isn't really what they are complaining about.

 

[Rotor]

Are you intentionally trying to twist or misunderstand what I say? Did I talk about trends? Did I even mention survival or scavenging?

I said that sandbox is misused and misunderstood. The end.

The current game, if played with creative mode on and god mode on is absolutely a sandbox experience. Unfortunately, console doesn't have access to either. But for PC players, the option is there. But they don't want it because that isn't really what they are complaining about.

You are correct in the strictest sense. So what would you call it?

 

[NiteViper]

Are you intentionally trying to twist or misunderstand what I say? Did I talk about trends? Did I even mention survival or scavenging?

I said that sandbox is misused and misunderstood. The end.

The current game, if played with creative mode on and god mode on is absolutely a sandbox experience. Unfortunately, console doesn't have access to either. But for PC players, the option is there. But they don't want it because that isn't really what they are complaining about.

Actually console players do have creative mode and we can do god mode along with fly mode within the options menu. We just don't have the /dm option.

 

[Kyoji]

Are you intentionally trying to twist or misunderstand what I say? Did I talk about trends? Did I even mention survival or scavenging?

I said that sandbox is misused and misunderstood. The end.

The current game, if played with creative mode on and god mode on is absolutely a sandbox experience. Unfortunately, console doesn't have access to either. But for PC players, the option is there. But they don't want it because that isn't really what they are complaining about.

You quoted me when you replied. I clearly posted about open world sandbox survival. So I assumed you were quoting me for a reason. I clarified that it's not just sandbox elements people want.

I appreciate the discussion on semantics as they can matter but overall I think the concept is that people do not like the RPG elements added as much and want more focus on the open world survival sandbox aspects.

Suggesting to leave it to mods or the developers doesn't allow for any discussion in itself. There may be some obscure things that are best left for mods but not everything. Not everything has to be implemented but that doesn't mean nothing can't.

I feel like a lot of people are still expressing dissatisfaction from seeing the posts that have come from the Jawoodle videos. A lot of posts are more rage click bait than feedback so it's not like I don't understand. But it feels like a lot of suggestions are met with harsh criticism.

 

[Riamus]

You are correct in the strictest sense. So what would you call it?

Whatever the actual issue people have is. If it is LBD, then LBD. Most do, but I have seen people here say they want sandbox and then say that they are taking about LBD, which isn't sandbox. If about biome hazards, then biome hazards. Those may affect movement around the map, but aren't really a sandbox issue. If anything, that would be an open world issue, but even open world doesn't mean you can't have things that make it dangerous to go places.

There isn't any reason to keep listing things. I think it should be clear that you just call things what they are and don't label them sandbox if they aren't. The sand would be true with any category. Peopledo this often with calling things RPG as well even when they aren't really RPG.

Actually console players do have creative mode and we can do god mode along with fly mode within the options menu. We just don't have the /dm option.

That is good to know. I was sure I had heard people say those weren't available. Were they added after 1.0? Not that it matters. Just curious.

 

[NiteViper]

Well, the creative mode for sure was in the legacy version, but not sure about the rest, but in 1.0 they were both in game.

 

[Riamus]

You quoted me when you replied. I clearly posted about open world sandbox survival. So I assumed you were quoting me for a reason. I clarified that it's not just sandbox elements people want.

I appreciate the discussion on semantics as they can matter but overall I think the concept is that people do not like the RPG elements added as much and want more focus on the open world survival sandbox aspects.

Suggesting to leave it to mods or the developers doesn't allow for any discussion in itself. There may be some obscure things that are best left for mods but not everything. Not everything has to be implemented but that doesn't mean nothing can't.

I feel like a lot of people are still expressing dissatisfaction from seeing the posts that have come from the Jawoodle videos. A lot of posts are more rage click bait than feedback so it's not like I don't understand. But it feels like a lot of suggestions are met with harsh criticism.

When someone quotes you, they don't have to comment on everything you wrote. I commented on sandbox. That should have been clear considering I kept saying sandbox.

Either way, I see no reason to continue the conversation. It isn't going anywhere.

 

[Kyoji]

If about biome hazards, then biome hazards. Those may affect movement around the map, but aren't really a sandbox issue. If anything, that would be an open world issue, but even open world doesn't mean you can't have things that make it dangerous to go places.

Reduction in movement would be antithesis to open world. It's not to say you can't have an open world with restrictions but those restrictions are not themselves open world elements if you wanted to be super technical. But...

At the end of the day language is used to express concerns and I don't think many were confused on what the issues were and having to list them out directly would limit the feedback and options one could use. For example there may be another way to add open world sandbox elements than just reverting the game back to older systems.

When someone quotes you, they don't have to comment on everything you wrote. I commented on sandbox. That should have been clear considering I kept saying sandbox.

Either way, I see no reason to continue the conversation. It isn't going anywhere.

And I commented on the aspect that I discussed. It was never meant to be a broad retort to your entire claim. You were the one who took it the wrong way.

 

[Vaeliorin]

In any case, LBD isn't sandbox by any stretch of the word. It limits play style just as much as magazines. It just changes who is being limited.

Honest question: How? I genuinely don't understand how getting better at what you do limits anyone, unless you feel you have to be the best at everything (not talking about LBD crafting level, that's genuinely terrible.)

Anyway, I just want the game to be less deterministic. Less deterministic crafting, looting, and, most importantly to me, less deterministic zombie AI. I want to try bases and have them potentially fail (even if it doesn't mean they're breached), not know 100% ahead of time whether or not they're going to work.

 

[Riamus]

Honest question: How? I genuinely don't understand how getting better at what you do limits anyone, unless you feel you have to be the best at everything (not talking about LBD crafting level, that's genuinely terrible.)

It's a limitation on how you get better, just like magazines. There are different ways LBD can work, and the following is just one example. I am not stating in any way that it's the only option, but it is representative of the answer to your question. <end of disclaimer so people aren't going off about how LBD can be implemented in different ways>

LBD- I want to make a better spear, so I craft 100 spears. I have no other options but to craft those 100 spears. I am limited to that one way of improving my crafting of spears.

Magazines - I want to make a better spear, so I find 100 magazines. I have no other options but to find those 100 magazines. I am limited to that one way of improving my crafting of spears.

Neither option gives you freedom to choose how you want to improve your crafting. It's one way and only one way. If improving your crafting or other skills was designed for a sandbox experience, you would have at least a couple of different ways to improve. Sandbox is about options and freedom. Now, I want to be clear that sandbox isn't only about options and freedom, and you can have restrictions and rules and still be sandbox. But in the case of this single example, being limited to a single way to improve is not sandbox no matter how you look at it. And in both cases (LBD and magazines), you are limiting players to a specific way to improve. One way will feel limiting to certain players, while the other way will feel limiting to other players. It just depends on which way you like. If you like LBD, it won't feel limiting but magazines will. If you like magazines, they won't feel limiting but LBD will.

My statement that you quoted isn't saying that either is better, even though I don't like LBD. It was only to point out that LBD is not sandbox any more than magazines because both limit how you improve to a single option.

 

[Uncle Al]

Honest question: How? I genuinely don't understand how getting better at what you do limits anyone, unless you feel you have to be the best at everything (not talking about LBD crafting level, that's genuinely terrible.)

Anyway, I just want the game to be less deterministic. Less deterministic crafting, looting, and, most importantly to me, less deterministic zombie AI. I want to try bases and have them potentially fail (even if it doesn't mean they're breached), not know 100% ahead of time whether or not they're going to work.

A major problem with LBD systems is they remove the ability to reduce or avoid gameplay loops you don't enjoy.

Currently if mining bores me stupid, I can spend perk points on mining skills to minimise the time I have to spend mining.

I can earn perk points by killing or salvaging or building or trading. Whichever I find most fun.

I can maximise the proportion of my play time where I'm doing stuff i enjoy.

With LBD I have to mine to learn to mine. There's no way to shorten the amount of time spent mining for a given amount of resources. I'm incapable of reducing the time I have to spend doing an activity i hate.

 

[Riamus]

A major problem with LBD systems is they remove the ability to reduce or avoid gameplay loops you don't enjoy.

Currently if mining bores me stupid, I can spend perk points on mining skills to minimise the time I have to spend mining.

I can earn perk points by killing or salvaging or building or trading. Whichever I find most fun.

I can maximise the proportion of my play time where I'm doing stuff i enjoy.

With LBD I have to mine to learn to mine. There's no way to shorten the amount of time spent mining for a given amount of resources. I'm incapable of reducing the time I have to spend doing an activity i hate.

Good way to look at it. And it actually brings up the method between LBD and magazines, where you unlocked recipes through perks or schematics or books. In a way, that was a bit closer to sandbox because at least some of that did provide options. If a recipe was unlocked through perks, you could get those perks through any option you wanted that let you gain experience so you could level up to unlock the perks. It didn't matter how you got the experience. So that was sandbox. Schematics were not really sandbox because those were just RNG and you had to loot to find them (or buy them, which really isn't enough of an option to consider it a sandbox method). And books were like schematics... you had to loot to find them or else buy them, so also not really sandbox. But at least the perk option was sandbox compared to either LBD or magazines.

 

[Double G]

Your website seems to mirror your complete lack of dedication to your one meaningful project. MacGyver ■■■■?! How dare you? The last evidence of you adding "talent" to your roster is years ago. The only way to get you to respect your players concerns is to have one of the most popular content creators ■■■■ on you, and even then you cling to your selfish, egotistic nonsense. You've taken something I and plenty of others have paid good money for and looked forward to with aplomb into a seeping, vacuous pile of garbage. Hope you feel some sense of pride in the completely shambolic nature of your product, because that's the only thing that makes sense relative to your continued refusal to recognize your mistakes and faux pas. I have close to 0% confidence we will see anything from you in terms of what was promised or what we as a community want given your track record of lip service and outright lies. Die in a fire is too extreme for y'all, but a fairly serious and prolonged verbal beating is certainly in order. Shame on you.

Shame on who? You are AN ADULT! These ramblings are delusional, insane and ultimately embarrassing. Get it together!
I don't want to believe that human beings operate like this, but yet I keep seeing it.

 

[Lax]

So true, dew collectors can hardly be called water management. In some ways its even easier than before because you can skip needing jars completely.

Even better, the dew collectors make the jars for you, and get this: without all that pesky sand!

 

[theFlu]

Perks; you do anything, you get better at something you want.
LBD; you use a thing, you get better at that thing.
Magazines; you loot a thing, you get better at a random thing.

Only one of these limits you to bookstores, with randomized results.
Perks make everything free as in freedom to choose.
LBD makes everything free as in beer, you don't choose; you just get better at what you do.
Magazines makes everything free as in ... detached from actions, other than looting bookshelves.

Magazine progress for me is the least "sandboxy" of these; in the obvious sense that it prevented my "sandboxy" playthrough: that is, start building something big on D1, grow with the build, interact with the POI/trader world only when necessary. Well, now it's necessary just to get to iron tools, or learn to obtain water, or learn to cook, to learn to make a better weapon etc ...

Magazines being "sandboxy" doesn't really jive with my experience, they're one of the main changes that negated my sandbox playstyle. It worked when we had LBD+Perks, it worked when we had perks alone, now it doesn't.

 

[Sapient6]

Traders have been linear for a while.

I see this claim from time to time, but it's not really true. Being "introduced" to traders is linear, but you don't need to be introduced to them. They work just fine without taking or completing those "trade route" missions and can be done in any order.

2.0 broke that by locking biome progression, but that's been lifted so traders will be non-linear again.

 

[Adam the Waster]

They make mods for that

Shamsole be like:

 

[theFlu]

They work just fine without taking or completing those "trade route" missions and can be done in any order.

They "work", but there's plenty of linearity to them beyond the "trade routes":
- their inventory is directly level locked (you can get a percentage boost to your level lock, but completely linear to your level either way)
- quest tiers are locked behind "do 10 of the previous tier", which makes the quest targets completely linear in difficulty and loot quality

 

[NiteViper]

Shamsole be like:

Ehh us console players don't need mods to enjoy a game