V2.5 Survival Revival Dev Diary

@faatal Don't know if this is your wheelhouse or someone else's, but since zombies can crawl through and spawn in 1M spaces, they've gone back to being able to attack us while standing, and what should be a torso/head hit, results in the chance of a sprained/broken leg. Pretty sure it's not a bug but rather an oversight, since you guys made it so zombies will go for the lowest blocks on walls now in order to crawl through those spots.

Any chance you guys can fix this nonsense?
 
HB_H4wk said:
dafuq is this in console???


WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_Body, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_LArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/LeftShoulder/LeftArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_LLowerArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/LeftShoulder/LeftArm/LeftForeArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_RArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/RightShoulder/RightArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_RLowerArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/RightShoulder/RightArm/RightForeArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_Head, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/Neck/Head

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_Body, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_LArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/LeftShoulder/LeftArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_LLowerArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/LeftShoulder/LeftArm/LeftForeArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_RArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/RightShoulder/RightArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_RLowerArm, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/RightShoulder/RightArm/RightForeArm

WRN PhysicsBodies EntityTrader, E_BP_Head, path not found Hips/LowerBack/Spine/Spine1/Neck/Head
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It seems that the new Trader Jen character has a transform hierarchy or bone names that don't match the "Player" entry in physicsbodies.xml.

I just did a test in 2.5 and the log entries also showed up for me when I teleported to Trader Jen.

I'd report it as a bug, if it hasn't been reported already.
 
khzmusik said:
It seems that the new Trader Jen character has a transform hierarchy or bone names that don't match the "Player" entry in physicsbodies.xml.

I just did a test in 2.5 and the log entries also showed up for me when I teleported to Trader Jen.

I'd report it as a bug, if it hasn't been reported already.
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Maybe you could report it as a bug since you seem to know more about what's happening.
 
Question😕 ... Why Do all the Traders have No Grass??? ... What I mean is that it is all cut short as just a green ground. Not like before.
Outside the compound the grass is Normal as it has always been ... I'm Not Personally happy with the New Look, please give me my grass back as it was.
Thank You and Have a Merry Christmas 🎄
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khzmusik said:
It seems that the new Trader Jen character has a transform hierarchy or bone names that don't match the "Player" entry in physicsbodies.xml.

I just did a test in 2.5 and the log entries also showed up for me when I teleported to Trader Jen.

I'd report it as a bug, if it hasn't been reported already.
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I saw the error report under "F1" also and thought it was from a mod .... TFP's didn't Fix their files for the change, So sad.
 
gpcstargate said:
Question😕 ... Why Do all the Traders have No Grass??? ... What I mean is that it is all cut short as just a green ground. Not like before.
Outside the compound the grass is Normal as it has always been ... I'm Not Personally happy with the New Look, please give me my grass back as it was.
Thank You and Have a Merry Christmas 🎄
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Why are you assuming that everyone has your same problem?
Just file a bug report if that's your experience. Traders in my game are fine as far as I can tell. :unsure:
 
gpcstargate said:
Question😕 ... Why Do all the Traders have No Grass??? ... What I mean is that it is all cut short as just a green ground. Not like before.
Outside the compound the grass is Normal as it has always been ... I'm Not Personally happy with the New Look, please give me my grass back as it was.
Thank You and Have a Merry Christmas 🎄
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Merry Christmas!!! The traders like to keep their properties maintained! Especially Trader Joel, he got tired of stepping on wasteland landmines...😅
 
Riamus said:
Well, there does seem to be an actual problem right now. It seems the industrial cap tile rarely spawns (perhaps never in the current version, though I can't say that for certain). That means all 100x100 industrial-only POI (there are 5 of them) almost never appear on a map of any size. Considering those 5 POI are some nice POI, it is kind of a problem. I think it was @Laz Man who said many months ago that he'd like to improve the problem with industrial caps, but back then it was still working even if it was hard to get those POI. But now it seems you can't get them at all. It would really help to add even just a single new industrial tile that has a 100x100 spot on it that is NOT a cap to improve the chances of those POI being placed. But even just figuring out why the cap tile isn't getting placed would be a big help to people. For reference (this is only one map, so take that with a grain of salt), the ONLY cap tiles I have on my map are rural caps. No other district has cap tiles placed. That didn't used to be the case.
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We are looking into this already and ways to improve it. More tile variants is one way we are exploring.
 
Laz Man said:
Merry Christmas!!! The traders like to keep their properties maintained! Especially Trader Joel, he got tired of stepping on wasteland landmines...😅
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I get removing deco from being placed on their POIs to prevent the issues it caused but maybe give them a quick pass and add some grass/bushes/other random deco so it doesn't look like their POI is broke or something? It just looks super weird for nothing to be there, especially in the forest where grass is everywhere and then all of a sudden it stops. Maybe at least some of the short grass?
 
Blake_ said:
@Laz Man @faatal I have 2 questions that maybe you would be able to answer :

1-I've seen that Random Wold generation and seeds in general tend to skip traders and certain Tiers of POI altogether at low-end maps ( 2k X 2k sizes), and I would like to know if you guys have talked about introducing functional low-requirement questable POI to these worlds (non-remnant questable POI).

For example, creating tailored mini-clusters of POI that require very little space and have very few conditions to spawn, like the Old West town, but more of them and with a few tiered places.

That way, if you ever jam-pack a trader into a tiny prop, quest progression wouldn't be broken, and if a TIER V POI can be spawned in a 30x30 space due to it being a huge tower or skyscrapper that can do with other POI very very close to it, then nice too!

2- Regarding these previous questions, have you guys talked about a higher level of POI structural flexibility? Like if you do a quest the second time in a questable house, then all of a sudden a portion of it might appear completely destroyed or burned. I know that is beyond switching furniture doors and loot positions, but still, I remember Rick hinting at something like that in the past?

A big hug and love and stuff.
Click to expand...

We have several future level design ideas around some of the things you mentioned. Most of it is still R&D, but pushing for some of it in the upcoming Bandit update. 😉
 
Riamus said:
I don't really know what the bias system does since I really don't do anything with rwgmixer or RWG in general. But if that does what I said, then that's good.

It definitely takes time to create POI. I'm very slow with it and have pretty much given up on making much since it's so time consuming. I appreciate all the work you do in making your prefabs. As far as locations for things, it kind of depends what size POI you're talking about. There are a lot of 42x42 for most districts, while there are far fewer 100x100s. But it definitely isn't easy to get only unique POI in towns because of the placement restrictions for many POI and the limited number of POI to choose from. You'd pretty much need to quadruple the total number of vanilla POI or so, with an emphasis on higher tier POI, if you wanted to not see duplicates. But it takes a LOT of time to create them, as you said. That's why I use a few different POI packs to help increase the variety.

And you're definitely right about people seeing patterns. We recognize things very easily and remember them just as easily. Even with 1000+ vanilla POI, if you've played a few hundred hours (random number, it could be more or less), you know where all the zombies spawn in most of the POI. It's surprising how well we remember that when it can sometimes be difficult to remember other kinds of information. The unfortunate effect of that is it looks very repetitive to us no matter what is done to help with that. I really think more tiles would end up making more of a difference than more POI, though. A new tile with a different layout of POI sizes can help to make a block look different more than just a new POI you see here and there. If they could spend some time making some more tiles, perhaps doubling what is there already, it would really help to improve the variety in how towns look.
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Something didn't load right. You'd need to check your log for an actual ERR message to get an idea of the cause of those warnings.
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Indeed, tiles are always the solution as they are like POI but on steroids. And I personally would love that.
 
gpcstargate said:
Question😕 ... Why Do all the Traders have No Grass??? ... What I mean is that it is all cut short as just a green ground. Not like before.
Outside the compound the grass is Normal as it has always been
Click to expand...

I see that "AllowTopSoilDecorations" is set to "False" in trader_bob.xml and maybe that was previously set to True?
 
Riamus said:
And you're definitely right about people seeing patterns. We recognize things very easily and remember them just as easily. Even with 1000+ vanilla POI, if you've played a few hundred hours (random number, it could be more or less), you know where all the zombies spawn in most of the POI.
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I thought I'd add that many people experience the POIs because a quest sent them there. When they play that way they tend to only get to know the Tier 1+ POIs and rarely explore the Tier 0 POIs or the Tile Content. Neither of those involve a quest.

I get that Tier 0's are both a way to address performance/density issues and satisfy a desire by some players who want to make a base by fixing up a place. (I do that; it's fun.)

But, if there were some potential quest for those locations, or some game event, then the game would expand into assets the POI team has already created. Some brainstorming:

  • What if some "buried treasure" quests got located underneath Tier 0 POIs?
    • People leave divots in the world, so a divot in a Tier 0 POI is probably okay.
  • What if sometimes a "map" mission (Jose's Treasure Map) chose a Tier 0 POI as the location?
    • Otherwise, just like a buried treasure quest.
  • What if sometimes an air supply drop event specifically targeted a Tier 0 POI?
    • The supply crates get caught in trees, so maybe landing on a Tier 0 isn't so bad either.
  • What if there were a quest to "spend a horde night in Tier 0 POI"?
    • So long as they stay within the bounds from 2200 to 0400 they succeed.
    • The POI is chosen by the Trader. Maybe the POI is chosen the day of the horde night to make preparation hasty.
      • You can still survive the horde night if you leave the POI, of course, but you fail the mission if you leave.
These all assume there's no bedroll or LCB present in the Tier 0 POI.
 
I tend to take my time exploring which, for me, is fun. I know some don't find that to be a thing but, I dearly love those tier 0 POIs and some of them have really cool stories to see. Others are just decor, and I understand that, but to those developers who take the time to lovingly create something for me to squee over, cookies!!!!
 
Khissi said:
I tend to take my time exploring which, for me, is fun. I know some don't find that to be a thing but, I dearly love those tier 0 POIs and some of them have really cool stories to see. Others are just decor, and I understand that, but to those developers who take the time to lovingly create something for me to squee over, cookies!!!!
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I like the tier 0s so much I wanna bring some back. Granted they probably won't be as good as Lazmans buildings but I wanna bring back some of the old style buildings like stores and houses were all doors are locked and you get what you get. Maybe ill have a loot somewhere hidden but for the stores I wanna make the loot the box's in the back or on the shelves.
 
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zztong said:
I thought I'd add that many people experience the POIs because a quest sent them there. When they play that way they tend to only get to know the Tier 1+ POIs and rarely explore the Tier 0 POIs or the Tile Content. Neither of those involve a quest.

I get that Tier 0's are both a way to address performance/density issues and satisfy a desire by some players who want to make a base by fixing up a place. (I do that; it's fun.)

But, if there were some potential quest for those locations, or some game event, then the game would expand into assets the POI team has already created. Some brainstorming:

  • What if some "buried treasure" quests got located underneath Tier 0 POIs?
    • People leave divots in the world, so a divot in a Tier 0 POI is probably okay.
  • What if sometimes a "map" mission (Jose's Treasure Map) chose a Tier 0 POI as the location?
    • Otherwise, just like a buried treasure quest.
  • What if sometimes an air supply drop event specifically targeted a Tier 0 POI?
    • The supply crates get caught in trees, so maybe landing on a Tier 0 isn't so bad either.
  • What if there were a quest to "spend a horde night in Tier 0 POI"?
    • So long as they stay within the bounds from 2200 to 0400 they succeed.
    • The POI is chosen by the Trader. Maybe the POI is chosen the day of the horde night to make preparation hasty.
      • You can still survive the horde night if you leave the POI, of course, but you fail the mission if you leave.
These all assume there's no bedroll or LCB present in the Tier 0 POI.
Click to expand...
This is a very good idea. Level 0 locations could serve as quests.
- Find a stash (bring supplies)
- Kill a dangerous zombie (a couple of regular zombies and one dangerous one - police/mutant/feral/radioactive) spawn in the location
- Fix the power supply and eliminate the zombies that came in response to the noise
 
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