V2.5 Survival Revival Dev Diary

Roland said:
....Why build one when you can fill 100+ bottles with murky water, set them to boil, go out and do a couple of quests, and come home to more water than 5 dew collectors could produce in the same time period?
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How high do jars stack. I thought it was 10. If so and there are 3 slots in the campfire then that should be 30.
Haven't played the new one that much yet so am not sure of the numbers.
 
Roland said:
I don't think the dew collector creating jars of water is accidental. It works perfectly with the default settings of the game and serves as that point where water abundance finally begins to arrive. With default settings the jars of water the dew collector produces are one-time use so it isn't really producing empty jars but simply water in a form that can be used in the game.

Those who are choosing to have their jars returned are opting for water abundance long before dew collectors are even craftable. So why does it matter that you have even more? By time you can craft the dew collector you will likely have a few stacks of jars that will last the entire game which can all be filled and then boiled without having to be tended. You don't even need the dew collector. Why build one when you can fill 100+ bottles with murky water, set them to boil, go out and do a couple of quests, and come home to more water than 5 dew collectors could produce in the same time period?

Honestly, you guys wanted things to go back to how they were and how they were was that there was no dew collector because with jars being refunded there was no need for them. So don't build them and you'll have your pre-V1 settings again.
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Not trying to offend, the dew collectors in combination with the % of jar returns DOES create jars without a crucible. I agree that since everything is a personal choice now... it really doesn't matter in the long run. If you want a million jars you can have them...I don't know how they can "fix" that...I don't think it can be. It is an exploit created out of giving people choices. lol
It's not like "you" still won't need a crucible just because you don't actually "need" it for jars.
 
Roland said:
I don't think the dew collector creating jars of water is accidental. It works perfectly with the default settings of the game and serves as that point where water abundance finally begins to arrive. With default settings the jars of water the dew collector produces are one-time use so it isn't really producing empty jars but simply water in a form that can be used in the game.

Those who are choosing to have their jars returned are opting for water abundance long before dew collectors are even craftable. So why does it matter that you have even more? By time you can craft the dew collector you will likely have a few stacks of jars that will last the entire game which can all be filled and then boiled without having to be tended. You don't even need the dew collector. Why build one when you can fill 100+ bottles with murky water, set them to boil, go out and do a couple of quests, and come home to more water than 5 dew collectors could produce in the same time period?

Honestly, you guys wanted things to go back to how they were and how they were was that there was no dew collector because with jars being refunded there was no need for them. So don't build them and you'll have your pre-V1 settings again.
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You may be a fan of looter shooter or a desperate max difficulty survival, it does not matter. This is important not because someone wants to play with some specific refund settings. This is important because it is a loophole in the game progression — endless free production of an item that should only be created after receiving a crucible, but before you obtain a crucible.

Regarding the 100 bottles thing. Before the jars were returned in 2.5, the player only needed to craft about 4 collectors on base to permanently solve the water problem until the end of the game, completely risk-free, almost effort-free and fully autonomous. More collectors were only needed when you started mass-producing glue. Will the ability to collect many jars change the situation? I don't think so.
 
ALEXZANDER said:
Agree, dew collector and apiary should require empty jars
Devs just should stop pleasing acrade 7 days lovers for god sake!
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I am a survival player myself, and I'd like to live in world where both survival & arcade players can have fun playing with any settings they prefer, it's a sandbox game after all. That's why I've tried to suggest a well-thought-out rebalancing in the first place, which respects both refund and non-refund players.
 
Gamida said:
True, he mentioned 5 dew collectors but not 5 campfires so fair enough. You can have as many as you like.
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I mean how long does it take to boil water in game? Like 1 minutes or something like that? Maybe a bit more I dont remember the base speed cuz i always get master chef,

anyways

But there is really no winning unless the pimps wanna overhaul water itself. Water really and tbh never was a big issue

You can get jars and many campfires
You can have many dew collectors
You can have a pool of water and vitamins or water filter
Or a water bucket and Jars.

Im not complaining about jars at all I love them but there no way to make everyone happy
 
nocube said:
This is important because it is a loophole in the game progression — endless free production of an item that should only be created after receiving a crucible, but before you obtain a crucible.
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I might agree with you if the crucible’s only purpose was to craft jars but it’s not. Being able to obtain jars from the dew collector isn’t going to change the need for a crucible.

I also might agree with you if there was no way to get a crucible before the dew collector but it is a pretty common item to show up at some trader during the first couple of weeks so people will be able to commonly craft jars before the dew collector gets unlocked if they choose.

I also might agree with you if dew collectors could create jars faster than a forge with a crucible but I’m pretty sure jar manufacturing will be even greater once the crucible is added to the forge.

Finally I might agree with you if jars were still a scarce commodity by time you unlock the dew collector but they won’t be. If you use 100% jar return, your water survival story will already be over. Is something really a duping exploit loophole when you already have an over abundance of the item?

Your suggestions are good and well thought out but the actual “problem” isn’t really of any significance and I’d rather the devs focus on moving forward.
 
nocube said:
You may be a fan of looter shooter or a desperate max difficulty survival, it does not matter. This is important not because someone wants to play with some specific refund settings. This is important because it is a loophole in the game progression — endless free production of an item that should only be created after receiving a crucible, but before you obtain a crucible.

Regarding the 100 bottles thing. Before the jars were returned in 2.5, the player only needed to craft about 4 collectors on base to permanently solve the water problem until the end of the game, completely risk-free, almost effort-free and fully autonomous. More collectors were only needed when you started mass-producing glue. Will the ability to collect many jars change the situation? I don't think so.
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Here’s my problem with your logic. I don’t see any difference between the refund jars setting and resource/loot/XP settings in games. Once a player chooses to make changes to those settings, they are responsible for the foreseeable consequences. The decision to refund most or all jars is equivalent to a player deciding that they don’t want to water to be scarce for drinking or crafting. It’s simple as.

And for those that think “purification” is the solution, it’s not. People will just create multiple “purification” workstations. And if you are thinking that “purification” stations should be rare that’s not functionally different from limitations placed on collecting water either by removing jars or making them break.

Unless of course this has always been about crafting and people are grumpy they don’t have water to craft what they want when it appears to be abundant in the world.
 
HammerDano said:
Not trying to offend, the dew collectors in combination with the % of jar returns DOES create jars without a crucible. I agree that since everything is a personal choice now... it really doesn't matter in the long run. If you want a million jars you can have them...I don't know how they can "fix" that...I don't think it can be. It is an exploit created out of giving people choices. lol
It's not like "you" still won't need a crucible just because you don't actually "need" it for jars.
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I wasn’t disagreeing that the dew collector creates jars of water which will turn into more empty jars for people who choose a % return. I was disagreeing that it was accidental or an oversight.

The “loophole” doesn’t happen until well after the player already has too many jars anyway.
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meganoth said:
No thanks. I can easily make the mental leap of imagining containers when they are not simulated
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Not only that but I never imagine that I am eating jars or smashing them on the ground so why have a sound effect that forces my imagination to go that way?
 
Crater Creator said:
I think it’s safe to say no chicken coop in 2.5.
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Sure it’s not clean, but you need to consider who’s doing the smelling. As fans of The Walking Dead can attest, zombies are nose blind to the smell of rotting flesh that’s all around them. They only care about fresh meat.
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For now...Bandits though...
 
Kosmic Kerman said:
And for those that think “purification” is the solution, it’s not. People will just create multiple “purification” workstations. And if you are thinking that “purification” stations should be rare that’s not functionally different from limitations placed on collecting water either by removing jars or making them break.
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I don't know about everyone, but my thinking is a Chemistry Station is the workstation for complete purification, which comes later in the game, prolonging the experience of risking dysentery. You could make lots of those, sure, but you still have to progress to the point where you can make them.

Myself, I give boiled water a dysentery chance. It is the game's mineral water that has no dysentery chance and that I configure to require a Chemistry Station to make.

But all that said, you're right, you can dodge dysentery before that by brewing teas and juices, which require common ingredients and an extra step in crafting, slowing purification down.
 
Grandpa Minion said:
i haven't heard any updates for pvp..
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Sadly there mostly will not be! Or will be but not important (mostly small QoLs)! U see, game requires entire reballancing in order for PVP to function properly and 7 days is PVE and devs dont want it to be PVP
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Grandpa Minion said:
3rd person is a joke on pvp, already tested it makes xray glitching 10x easier for people to do most pvp servers already have it disabled.
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Yea, its cringe for PVP mode so its good that they disable it automaticly
 
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