PC V2.3 b8 EXP

[Abnormal Zombie]

PART 2

There was so much opportunity the past year for this game to become a hit, but the updates are shy of the expectations with the price tag. From my perspective I wouldn't say the community is strong.

I've been seeing shorts on my social feed showing how development takes no hints from mods which expand the game in fitting ways, like with the electrical system for example.​

​

Update 2.0 Storm's Brewing was postponed by half a year which left a negative impression.​

​

Even these forums affect the entire community, and up until your website change this year, the console forums were irrelevant and had content from 6 YEARS ago because everything was added to the PC section, even all-platform news. I wonder how many first visitors came to the forums and got lost there, or even got confused and thought the game was dead.​

These things add up.

You guys have a community which extends far past the demographic who use these forums, and that community is dying. Now that the public has gotten a taste and the game is no longer in headlines the opportunity to successfully explode has passed. The only thing which can bring back the reputation of 7 Days to Die is unexpected quality and intrigue, and this isn't it.

I want this game to be successful. I know hard work has gone into some of these features, but so much more has gone whoosh.

I have spoken.

 

[Abnormal Zombie]

Getting contradicting requests could make one want to pull their hair out, but please consider not making all zombies too intelligent.
Because if they act too clever, they won't feel like zombies anymore.

May I suggest checking out the movies Day of the Dead (1985), Land of the Dead (these two movies focus on progressive intelligence over time) and Return of the Living Dead for inspiration on how zombies could be more intelligent?

A bit of an unfair comparison. I haven't seen zombies claw through concrete or solid steel in any movie yet here we are. It's a fallacy to suggest the behaviour of the zombies should be incapable because they shouldn't be intelligent.

When you can stop a horde from destroying your base by slapping a perimeter of dirt around its support columns, there's a problem.

But I understand what you mean by maintaining the feel of them being zombies.

 

[khzmusik]

Just an FYI from a player and modder but not a TFP developer...

1- The Blood Moon every 7 days. I know the game is called "7 days to die" and that for online multiplayer pvp/pve servers then it might make sense as a system, but I think it destroys the fun for all solo players or private servers or players who are absent while other players progress in the game.

I do not play Conan Exiles, but implementing the system you suggested would be a whole lot of work, so I don't think it's realistic to expect it.

Also, you can change the frequency and random timing of horde nights, or even turn them off. I think this is probably good enough for most players, so I doubt that implementing a "purge" mechanic is going to be a high priority.

2- The main map is great, but travel is too long and frustrating, even with the last three vehicles in the game. Do you have plans to update the helicopter to achieve a very satisfactory speed for fast travel, or to add boosts or other new fast vehicles? Or automatic transport (with a vehicle) between merchants (for a fee)?
I'd also like to point out that learning vehicles is uninteresting (too long to get the first bike and too short to get the last three vehicles: We don't have time to enjoy the vehicles; it should be an exponential progression).

The vehicle speed is limited by chunk loading time. Vehicles can't travel much faster than they do now, or else you'll travel into unloaded chunks of the game map.

But, there are rumors that the helipads in the trader compounds will eventually allow fast travel between unlocked traders - for a fee.

Also, there are mods that introduce portals to the game, though I don't know if they're available for 2.x yet. I know @Guppycur made one a while ago, there may be others.

3- It's frustrating to have to navigate between all the inventories for resource management and crafting. Have you planned to detect resources in each nearby chest, allowing you to select resources from the various crafting benches without having to retrieve them each time, but also for vehicles that contain fuel in an inventory, allowing you to simply select "fill" when it detects fuel in the vehicle's inventory?

The term for this is "remote crafting." There are several mods that do this already. Here's a link to one of them (you have to add "https" so this post won't be flagged for moderation):
www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/7197

4- It's a bit frustrating not being able to access the same chests with multiple players and therefore having to wait for the other player to finish. Have you planned anything?

This is difficult to get right on a technical level, which is probably why most games don't allow it at all. I doubt that it will be added to 7D2D. Perhaps a mod will try, but I don't know if most players or modders care enough to do the work (I don't).

5- It's not interesting to see all the zombies as "dumb" and always following the same path logic, and therefore always observe "meta" from YouTubers who propose "horde bases" that are too easy to defend. It would be interesting to see more intelligent zombie categories (perhaps when wave levels evolve), and then the zombies could detect certain traps (for example, if the first zombies fall or cannot progress along a path for too long). We could imagine that if a minimum number of zombies fall or exceed a long period (30 seconds for example) without progressing along the same path, they will try other paths (or even dig into the ground or break traps). What do you think?

You are in the minority here. Most people that I've seen are complaining about zombies being too intelligent (holding "engineering degrees" so they always know which block to target or the best way to path to the player). The advanced pathing was introduce in A17, and lots of people miss the "simple" pathing of previous alphas.

I think bandits are going to change the AI significantly, since bandits will have to be "smarter" than other enemies. Maybe once TFP implement those different kinds of AI, they (or modders) can get most zombies to act "dumb" again, with the bandits having the "smart" AI. We'll see.

Also, the game already has logic that transitions from pathing to players, into breaking blocks. You might not notice that in game, partly because every broken block means that paths need to be re-created. (A lot of the AI and pathfinding is limited by a completely destructible world which can't have things like static navigation meshes or info nodes.)

6- In the same vein, it's a shame to be able to abuse defenses, for example, by stacking barricades on top of each other without taking physics/stability into account. Have you planned anything to counter this type of abuse? Or to add more variety to the traps that might make them more believable?

Most traps can't be stacked. For instance, you can't put a blade trap on top of another blade trap; those traps don't have any structural stability.

There are exceptions, but the only two I can think of are spike traps and barbed wire. I think that's intentional, but if not, it's easy to fix by modding the XML files. I don't know of anyone who modded this, because I don't recall anyone else complaining about it, but I can understand why you wouldn't want that and can help you mod it out if you like.

7- Why did you remove the dark nights (very dark)?

Because a lot of people complained that they couldn't see anything at night. As Schwantz9000 said, you can turn down the brightness to make things darker at night again.

There were also mods out there that adjust the brightness at night, but I don't know of any that were updated for recent versions of the game. Probably they just did the same thing you can do in the preferences.

What is not possible to do (AFAIK) is "dynamic darkness," where things in dark areas look darker if you're in a lighter area; or where entering a dark area from a lighter area makes things look very dark, until your eyes acclimate and then everything becomes lighter. (Or vice versa.) I don't know if that's even feasible in a Unity game like this.

8- Finally, for less frustrating elements:
- Not having a search area in our chests
- When we find a magazine and not having an option that specifies we no longer need it because we've already learned everything, but also at the merchant when we want to buy a book and it doesn't indicate whether we've already learned the skill. - Not being able to upgrade our weapons/tools/armor without having to craft new ones
- No image illustrating merchant quests
- Poor transition from land blocks to building blocks (there's a gap, why?) Maybe add a flattening tool
- Missing a mode: Objective = Find and craft a cure (You need laboratory research skills, craft or buy very expensive and rare laboratory tools, take samples from specific locations on the map, capture zombies to conduct tests that last several days and observe the results, and finish by curing a minimum number of zombies).
We can also go further with merchants outside the map who need us to send them food and medicine to heal their cities (there would be a minimum number of cities, for example).
- No elevators in the game (small and large).

- This makes more sense for chests that require more than one page (or scrolling) to see all of the contents, which 7D2D doesn't have. Some mods do have it though.
- The books do indicate that you've already read them, and the magazines do indicate when you have completed a series. The icon in the corner changes from a closed book to an open book. It's not very noticeable, and a lot of people miss it. There are mods out there (I have one) which change it so either the icons are different or they are different colors. But it is there.
- You mean, show the image of the POI when in the trader dialog that offers quests? If so, there is a mod which does that, but I don't think it's been updated for 2.x yet: 7daystodiemods.com/quest-poi-preview
- I agree that should be in the game, since it is already a feature of the POI builder tool. But there is a mod that allows you to do that: www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/2806
- It's an interesting idea for the end game, but TFP have a different end goal in mind, so I don't think they'll implement that. Especially since "capturing" zombies (or other entities) isn't a thing in 7D2D. I'm also not sure what you mean by sending food to "merchants outside the map" - I guess this would just be a "gather" quest which is turned in at an existing trader, except with some different flavor text? We already have "opening trade routes" quests which send us to different traders, if that's what you mean.
- Elevators would be neat, but TFP probably won't do them, since this is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world. There are mods that introduce elevators: www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/2501

 

[Gosti_FR]

1. We have no plans to change the blood moon mechanic at this time.
2. We have several ideas on the table, but nothing coming any time soon.
3. No plans at this time. I hear that there is a mod doing this already you can check out.
4. It has been talked about and would be a huge undertaking to make sure there are no duping issues, but no plans at this time.
5. Zombie pathing AI is always getting tweaks. Bandits will be getting even more AI work in the coming months that might help the zombie AI.
6. I'm honestly not sure what you mean by "barricades". Spikes? Barbed Fence?
7. The defaults are tuned for various reasons, but you can always turn down the brightness in the video options. Anything below the default level drops night time brightness significantly without effecting the day time brightness. I hear that 25% or less makes it fairly dark at night.
8. Maybe, Maybe, WIP, WIP, WIP, IDK, No, There is a very old prototype that needs a lot of work as the player movement is very jerky on it.

Thanks!

Thank you so much for responding to each item; it's very kind of us, the community
And thank you for your advice. I can't wait to see what you're planning for the rest of the year (because I haven't seen a roadmap or anything else), I'm sure it'll be cool

I'm also sure that with AI you can modify the entire game code much more quickly to provide better solutions to all the frustrating elements that we can feel =D

 

[Gosti_FR]

Just an FYI from a player and modder but not a TFP developer...



I do not play Conan Exiles, but implementing the system you suggested would be a whole lot of work, so I don't think it's realistic to expect it.

Also, you can change the frequency and random timing of horde nights, or even turn them off. I think this is probably good enough for most players, so I doubt that implementing a "purge" mechanic is going to be a high priority.



The vehicle speed is limited by chunk loading time. Vehicles can't travel much faster than they do now, or else you'll travel into unloaded chunks of the game map.

But, there are rumors that the helipads in the trader compounds will eventually allow fast travel between unlocked traders - for a fee.

Also, there are mods that introduce portals to the game, though I don't know if they're available for 2.x yet. I know @Guppycur made one a while ago, there may be others.



The term for this is "remote crafting." There are several mods that do this already. Here's a link to one of them (you have to add "https" so this post won't be flagged for moderation):
www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/7197



This is difficult to get right on a technical level, which is probably why most games don't allow it at all. I doubt that it will be added to 7D2D. Perhaps a mod will try, but I don't know if most players or modders care enough to do the work (I don't).



You are in the minority here. Most people that I've seen are complaining about zombies being too intelligent (holding "engineering degrees" so they always know which block to target or the best way to path to the player). The advanced pathing was introduce in A17, and lots of people miss the "simple" pathing of previous alphas.

I think bandits are going to change the AI significantly, since bandits will have to be "smarter" than other enemies. Maybe once TFP implement those different kinds of AI, they (or modders) can get most zombies to act "dumb" again, with the bandits having the "smart" AI. We'll see.

Also, the game already has logic that transitions from pathing to players, into breaking blocks. You might not notice that in game, partly because every broken block means that paths need to be re-created. (A lot of the AI and pathfinding is limited by a completely destructible world which can't have things like static navigation meshes or info nodes.)


Most traps can't be stacked. For instance, you can't put a blade trap on top of another blade trap; those traps don't have any structural stability.

There are exceptions, but the only two I can think of are spike traps and barbed wire. I think that's intentional, but if not, it's easy to fix by modding the XML files. I don't know of anyone who modded this, because I don't recall anyone else complaining about it, but I can understand why you wouldn't want that and can help you mod it out if you like.



Because a lot of people complained that they couldn't see anything at night. As Schwantz9000 said, you can turn down the brightness to make things darker at night again.

There were also mods out there that adjust the brightness at night, but I don't know of any that were updated for recent versions of the game. Probably they just did the same thing you can do in the preferences.

What is not possible to do (AFAIK) is "dynamic darkness," where things in dark areas look darker if you're in a lighter area; or where entering a dark area from a lighter area makes things look very dark, until your eyes acclimate and then everything becomes lighter. (Or vice versa.) I don't know if that's even feasible in a Unity game like this.



- This makes more sense for chests that require more than one page (or scrolling) to see all of the contents, which 7D2D doesn't have. Some mods do have it though.
- The books do indicate that you've already read them, and the magazines do indicate when you have completed a series. The icon in the corner changes from a closed book to an open book. It's not very noticeable, and a lot of people miss it. There are mods out there (I have one) which change it so either the icons are different or they are different colors. But it is there.
- You mean, show the image of the POI when in the trader dialog that offers quests? If so, there is a mod which does that, but I don't think it's been updated for 2.x yet: 7daystodiemods.com/quest-poi-preview
- I agree that should be in the game, since it is already a feature of the POI builder tool. But there is a mod that allows you to do that: www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/2806
- It's an interesting idea for the end game, but TFP have a different end goal in mind, so I don't think they'll implement that. Especially since "capturing" zombies (or other entities) isn't a thing in 7D2D. I'm also not sure what you mean by sending food to "merchants outside the map" - I guess this would just be a "gather" quest which is turned in at an existing trader, except with some different flavor text? We already have "opening trade routes" quests which send us to different traders, if that's what you mean.
- Elevators would be neat, but TFP probably won't do them, since this is supposed to be a post-apocalyptic world. There are mods that introduce elevators: www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/2501

Thank you so much for reading all my feedback and responding in detail, that's kind of you
It also helps me understand some things ^^
I didn't know about the closed books with the icon =D Thanks!!

I've also seen the Mods, but I've never liked using mods in video games if they're elements that "improve" the base game. In my opinion, Mods are ideal for "diverting" the base game to something completely different. But when mods improve the quality of life of the base game, it's sad not to see it "officially" in the game by the developers (my opinion).

Indeed, for the traps, I was thinking of spikes (sorry, my English is bad, I use a Google translator ^^)

 

[Was7eland]

I agree that should be in the game, since it is already a feature of the POI builder tool.

The GapAway! Mod makes the tool of the POI Builder available in the normal game. However, it is a technical tool without gameplay and not a game tool that you can craft, buy, and use with your “own hands.” (That's why I made it dependent on Creative Mode.) In order for it to work in the similar way as the OCB Leveling Tool, there is certainly still some of development work to be done by TFP.

In any case, I'm glad that TFP is working on it.

 

[BFT2020]

Got it, you don't use mods.

When you select experimental version, you are agreeing that that changes can and may occur before it becomes stable. That includes hotfixes and updates / additional content being added prior to going stable.

As it has already been mentioned, if you are worried about mods becoming broken during experimental because of batch updates, then don't play experimental. Stable is the version you should be playing and only update to the next version when it is released as stable.

I do play with mods and have even made up a few custom ones myself. However, I only use my mods when I am playing experimental as I know I can fix them quickly if a batch update changes something my mod interacts with.

Have you notice most mod makers only state that the mod works up to the latest stable version that they tested it to? It is because they know that there might be changes made during experimental that could cause issues and wait for the stable version to come out before pushing out updates or testing it to verify that it still works with no issues.

 

[n2n1]

This is a new set of properties that can be setup for custom blocks to show a radial menu of game events.

For example, I can make a new block with the GameEvent class and assign the game event test_POIReset.
I can then assign other game events using the custom command properties.

When I place this block I can press E on it to reset the POI I'm standing in.
Alternatively, I can hold E to bring up the radial menu and choose to spawn a zombie or a vulture.

If the block doesn't use the GameEvent class, the first custom command listed will be used for the press E block activation.

    <property name="Class" value="GameEvent"/>
    <property name="ActivateEvent" value="test_POIReset"/>
    <property name="ActivateTime" value="1"/>

    <property name="CustomCommandName1" value="Spawn Zombie"/>
    <property name="CustomCommandIcon1" value="ui_game_symbol_zombie"/>
    <property name="CustomCommandEvent1" value="spawn_standard"/>

    <property name="CustomCommandName2" value="Spawn Vulture"/>
    <property name="CustomCommandIcon2" value="ui_game_symbol_hand"/>\
    <property name="CustomCommandEvent2" value="spawn_vulture"/>

View attachment 36518

Post automatically merged: Saturday at 12:39 PM

Inside xml`s, developers' comments on the nuances of the work of a function often come across.
But they can only be on some one selected block, so it is difficult to find them when necessary.

Perhaps developers should start a group of demonstration blocks that will show beginner modders functionality on the example of these blocks. Can also use these blocks to debug the code, and then these blocks can show the features that you introduced. Also, there may be those comments regarding their functionality.

It would be the best tutorial than a separate text file. It would also be clear there that you are deleting or changing.

 

[Marty2Live]

Players using 7DLauncher.exe shortcuts for multiple versions of the game can configure where game data like logs and saves are stored.

For example, I have the current public stable build set as my Steam default.
I can then also have a copy of Experimental in another folder location.
I then setup a shortcut to the 7DLauncher.exe inside the Experimental folder on my desktop.
In the properties for that shortcut, at the end of the Target line, use the -self-contained argument to put all logs and saves into a folder called _LocalUserDataFolder

You can optionally set the folder location to any folder such as -self-contained H:\MyFolder as shown below.


View attachment 36517

In addition to absolute path specifications, is relative path specifications also supported? For example: -self-contained "..\SaveArchiv\V23B8\" . greetings

 

[Professor-Pip]

I've also seen the Mods, but I've never liked using mods in video games if they're elements that "improve" the base game. In my opinion, Mods are ideal for "diverting" the base game to something completely different. But when mods improve the quality of life of the base game, it's sad not to see it "officially" in the game by the developers (my opinion).

This is actually the beauty of mods in 7DtD. Not only can a mod take the base game and change it to something completely different (Darkness Falls, Rebirth, etc.), but they can address issues you might have with the way the game plays. A lot of mods are intended to improve player quality of life (Remote Crafting, Horn Opens Doors, Bigger Backpack, and so forth).

The developers plan is to create the game exactly as *they* intended. This may not be what all players want, even with options that allow players to adjust the game.

Mods exist so the player can alter the game into what they *want* to play.

 

[Gosti_FR]

This is actually the beauty of mods in 7DtD. Not only can a mod take the base game and change it to something completely different (Darkness Falls, Rebirth, etc.), but they can address issues you might have with the way the game plays. A lot of mods are intended to improve player quality of life (Remote Crafting, Horn Opens Doors, Bigger Backpack, and so forth).

The developers plan is to create the game exactly as *they* intended. This may not be what all players want, even with options that allow players to adjust the game.

Mods exist so the player can alter the game into what they *want* to play.

I would agree with you if the game had never been released in Early Access but directly in official release. The main thing about Early Access is to build the game's adventure with the community

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Mods exist so the player can alter the game into what they *want* to play.

console accounts can not alter the game with mods.
using mods as an excuse to fix or change stuff is overly stated,
those players have to rely on tfp to fix or change things.

 

[Gamida]

It's easy to prevent updates, and use mods. It looks like I have 18 different versions installed, going back to A16 currently. And many of those are used with different mod groups or overhauls installed. My 7dtd folder is 396GB, I really should clean out some old stuff. That's not counting the steam copy which is on experimental. Just move a copy of the game install of the version you want to keep to some location out of the steam folders and run it from the exe directly, not the Play button. Steam won't update it. Read up on the -UserDataFolder launch option to see how to specify different save and mod install locations so you can have different mod packs at the same time.

Same, although I have been slacking and have none of the newer ones after 2.0. Will have to get on that lol.




The mods folder has mods from back to about a15 and is about 227GB

 

[ilexev]

C'est le forum qui a eu la meilleure idée que j'aie jamais vue ! Et c'est absurde que, puisque les mods "existent" déjà, les développeurs n'aient pas besoin d'implanter cette fonctionnalité dans le jeu.
Pour répondre sans nommer un point spécifique, Minecraft peut utiliser une boîte avec plusieurs utilisateurs.
Et une autre référence dans un bon film est "World War Z", parfois les zombies tombent d'un bâtiment, quelque chose attaque les zombies sur un mur en béton ou en métal, mais ne leur font pas de très gros dégâts.
@Roland do something plz this forum have a very high potential


Edit to add Translation:
This forum had the best idea I've ever seen! And it's absurd that, since mods already "exist," developers don't need to implement this feature into the game.
To answer without naming a specific point, Minecraft can use a box with multiple users.
And another reference to a good movie is "World War Z." Sometimes zombies fall from a building, something attacks zombies on a concrete or metal wall, but doesn't do much damage.

 

[ZehMatt]

I'm sure faatal has talked about this topic a few times. Several programmers look into this on an almost daily basis.

Optimizations happen every update for a wide variety of issues. V2.3 has several.

If you have VERY specific physics issue(s) you are capturing in a profile, lay it out in another post and tag me in it. I'll be sure to pass it along.

Here are the steps to reproduce it:
1. Spawn 64 or more Zombies.

Hope it helps.

 

[plzkthxbye]

Here are the steps to reproduce it:
1. Spawn 64 or more Zombies.

Hope it helps.

I bet this is probably what he was asking about, "Me and couple other people did use the Unity profiler and we have seen some physics related things"

Why not elaborate on that stuff? What you just said isn't helpful at all (it's as if you don't actually care).