PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

[zztong]

How do you reinvent lockpicking WITHOUT changing it but make it more satisfying?

Yes, likely an impossible task. I'll take a shot.

The Bethesda mini-game pops up showing the lock, a pick, and a turning tool. You can either play the mini-game or wait 3 seconds and the game will start a timer for you.

The more picks you have (up to 50 max; one stack) AND the higher your Lockpicking Perk, the less strict the location is for the pick to solve the puzzle. So, for instance, if there are 300 hundred possible spots to place the pick, then if you have 1 pick and no skill, then you have to find the exact one. The more picks, the more skill, the less precise you have to be.

If you're doing the timer thing so you don't have to play the mini-game, the game's software sets the timer appropriately. If you have 1 pick and no skill, then expect it the timer to take 1 minute. If you have 50 picks and a maxed out skill, expect the timer to take 1 second.

No picks? No lockpicking regardless of skill.

Picks don't break. Once you get a stack of 50 any further picks are basically a cash item to sell to the trader.

I haven't seen one suggestion for a better method that is not a minigame but I'd like to hear some.

How's that?

EDIT: For clarification ... I'm using the number of picks that you have to represent the size of your kit, not a consumable resource. Loot tables can control how fast you let somebody assemble a kit. Time (or Precision) decreases with a bigger kit because you're more likely to have the right tool for the job.

 

[Gamida]

The frustration comes when you go into a POI that has multiple locked safes and chests and even if you bring a full stack of lockpicks, you run out before you even reach the loot room. And then you're stuck with either hacking away at the locked chest(s) or else leaving the loot. And it can take a long time to hack away at the larger ones. Once I have an auger, I don't really care because it's fast to break into them. Otherwise, I'm often hitting them with a wrench/ratchet/impact driver because those tend to do more damage per hit than other things (I never have a high level pickaxe). It works, but it's still time consuming. If I could be sure I'd get through any POI and open all the locked safes and chests without running out if I start with a full stack of lockpicks, it wouldn't really bother me at all. But changes to it could improve things as well.

I use to try and have a Jail Breaker candy on me for those times I found a poi with multiple safes. Now I usually wait to crack safes until I get a steel pickaxe and have my perks for tools up. I usually always mark my safes and police cars that I have opened on map for when I know loot has respawned. Well the police cars I do mark even if not opened as I will make my rounds on them when I get a few lockpicks.

 

[EvilPolygons]

Yes, but look at a lot of those RPGs (perhaps most). How does lockpicking work in them? In some cases, you use up one lockpick for a lock to be guaranteed to open it, so long as you have the right skill level to open that particular lock. Your option to bash it open and have things damaged just offers an alternative, but you won't go through 20 lockpicks to open it. In others, you have a minigame like Bethesda does and whether or not you break any is entirely based on your own skill in completing the minigame. Even in ones that let you break multiple lockpicks without being based on skill, I am pretty certain I've never seen another game where I can break 20 lockpicks on a single lock when it's not skill-based. And, yes... I've counted out 20 broken lockpicks before.

Add in that the main loot chests are locked in higher tier POI and breaking stuff in chests that you break open just isn't a good option for this game. It's different when it's just a random chest somewhere. And even in those, if the chest contains something important, it's usually set to not break in RPG games.

Couple of things:

There's no unique loot in this game. If you break something in one chest, there are hundred of chests just like it in other POIs. Having a percentage chance to break a single random loot item when bashing a lock is not some kind of massive, crippling punishment. It's a minor trade off based entirely on the player's choices. Also, having the option to bash a lock and possibly ruin a piece of loot is 100% better than many games where you can't open chests at all if you don't have lockpicking.

As for the number of picks you can break, my comment about "boatloads of picks" was meant as a general statement about what you can expect throughout the course of a typical rpg or adventure game. 7DTD, on the other hand, can have you burning through that many lockpicks on a single freaking chest. It can get ridiculous.

So yeah, that's a legitimate gripe and the lockpicking dice rolls REALLY need to be tuned.

 

[Uncle Al]

If lockpicking were made more tolerable, I'd imagine any of the men playing the game would still primarily use the aforementioned method, and he would only occasionally divert into one of the other alternatives, but that is fine. Personally, I only use breaching rounds when I'm going for a shotgun-focused run, and I typically only bother with timed charged if I'm going down Perception and Demolitions Expert.

I love perception and it's my most commonly taken spec. I didn't realise Demo Expert buffs timed charges damage, so thanks for that info! Even just going off the numbers I see, without knowing they were buffed, I've never once crafted a timed charge. I'll use the ones I find in loot but that's it.

Even if timed charges get decent with Demo Expert, I've always got a strong salvaging skill, and a skilled wrench user rips though iron items, which chests and safes are, just as fast as a fully specced out STR miner with a pickaxe.

I will carry lockpicks, but I only ever use them for cop cars or if I'm trying to be stealthy.

My guess is, currently, the only mechanical reasons (ignoring 'I'm a rogue!' roleplay) lockpicking gets used are:

• Cop cars are a thing.
• You've taken the perk for workstation books, so you feel you should use it.
• You're a dedicated INT/AGI/FORT build in multiplayer, with poor breakage options. In single player you'll often have a couple of points of Miner 69er anyway, and that's enough to make breaking feel like a better choice than picking.

It could well be that if the time to open was analysed, unperked picking is as good or better than your '2 points in Miner 69er and a Q5 iron pickaxe' player - a state you spend a fair bit of the game in. The issue is for me, and I think for many, I'd much rather know '20 swings and I'm done' than 'could be 20s, could be 2 minutes and 20 broken lockpicks'.

Knowing how long a task will take, and not potentially burning resouces or even running out of picks and having to then break as well, has a lot of value in a game where time is a valuable resouce.

I certainly agree that lockpicking failure chance should be evenly spread across the pick time, so if you're 3s off then you know you have spent round about 85% of the total time the job is going to take. Improving predictability would make it a closer competitor to breakage. Chance of success probably should be spread evenly too. Lockpicking would feel a lot better if you opened a container in 1s now and again, and maybe we wouldn't just remember the 20 broken pick instances.

 

[Morloc]

This freaking poi took me a day & a half to clear!! Now I am a lot rat so I take everything.
But wow, I know I must have killed at least 150 zombies. It was just a clear quest too....can't imagine the infested version

I'd guestimate between 90-100 in the structures ringing the main building or within the walls. Inside?...40+ on the upper floors, but it gets hard to estimate what spawns below because the zombies seem to repopulate the spawn points 2 or 3 times until some total is reached. You could easily be looking at 100 or more in the basement(s). "Look, some unguarded crates in that little room! We're going to be rich!"

If you're in the Wasteland, the adds you get from outside the wall are not insignificant. Undead bears and dire wolves keep you on your toes when kiting.

 

[Morloc]

I don't believe that there's any difficulty difference between locks at the moment. You could add this without too much fuss.

When you try to pick a lock the very first time, you should receive a little graph curve which shows how tough the lock is vs. your skill (perks, armor bonus, books). You know with a glance how hard it'll be for you to continue working at the lock. Too tough? ...pull out the pickaxe or those pills that make you automatically pick the lock. Does the curve appear in your favor?...continue with picks.

 

[Javabean867]

If all people want to see are the actual checkpoints then your suggestion is fine. It's still watching a timer and the pick might break on that last "tumbler" ten times. I don't see much of an improvement. Currently the timer doesn't go all the way back to the beginning but saves your progress at the last point where your pick broke. So a visual change while waiting for a timer to count down and picks breaking along the way is all that's needed?

Oh i had a great idea for the lock picking. You take the lock picks as a base tool, much like a pick axe or shovel. The lockpicks level up to a lock pick gun. Lock picks do 10% effort to the lock + an appropriate bonus from the lock picking perk, and quality of said lock picks. The lock pick gun does about 20% effort to the lock + an appropriate bonus from the lock picking perk and quality of lock pick gun.

You remove the random chance of failing to move the needle, and you can estimate how quickly you will get into that locked item. you can have it take more effort for the higher quality chests, or give them a reduction to how effective the lockpicking is.

 

[Professor-Pip]

no clue what psychotic world you live in considering a dr the same as a killer,
in the real world Batons are used by law enforcement and security personnel as a less-lethal option for self-defense and crowd control.
guns are insta kill weapons.

Wow! I applaud your ability to completely obscure the context of the quote and make it appear that @Suxar is a psycho.

Based on your reply, I have to assume that you've never read the original Sherlock Holmes stories. @Suxar was quoting (or possibly paraphrasing) Holmes.

“When a doctor does go wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge.”

From this, one can extrapolate that a doctor's (especially a surgeon's) knowledge and ability allows them to kill swiftly, effectively, and potentially undetectably. In terms of the game, I expect the intention of the Physician Perk is to indicate the player now has enough knowledge of anatomy and physiology to locate and exploit the most effective ways to kill zombies. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there is not logic to it.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

In terms of the game, I expect the intention of the Physician Perk is to indicate the player now has enough knowledge of anatomy and physiology to locate and exploit the most effective ways to kill zombies.

Regardless of how individuals perceive or attempt to justify the rationale behind granting a baton instant killing capability,
the fact remains that a baton should not cause more harm than an admin gun or any other weapon in this game.

For that matter it seems to me that the current placement of the perk indicates someone intended to endow the baton with an instant kill feature and inadvertently categorized it within the healing tree.

Not only is it misplaced there but it should also not possess such an ability to instant kill.
As I mentioned earlier, batons are utilized for crowd control and less lethal force in the real world.

If you disagree with this, then that is your issue, not mine it is simply a fact.
machete or knife would made more sense to give insta perk kill to especially since "drs" use cutting tools

 

[DocRussel]

When lockpicking is the biggest complaint about the game, it must be in a great state.

 

[Arma Rex]

This brings up an interesting point. Come to think of it, batons are a terrible weapon tree for INT, they're a blunt weapon instrument that would scale better with strength, rather than intelligence. I would think that an INT build would have a more engineering/scientific focused weapon tree, something electrical or plasma-based. Doesn't have to be too far out into sci-fi territory, but something like a railgun could make for a unique weapon set.

 

[Riamus]

This brings up an interesting point. Come to think of it, batons are a terrible weapon tree for INT, they're a blunt weapon instrument that would scale better with strength, rather than intelligence. I would think that an INT build would have a more engineering/scientific focused weapon tree, something electrical or plasma-based. Doesn't have to be too far out into sci-fi territory, but something like a railgun could make for a unique weapon set.

I'm all for lasers and lightsabers in the intellect tree!

 

[Fisher]

Hey. Just noticed this. I'm on 2.1. Why is the perk showing 50% again? Did this nerf get reverted? Perhaps I missed the change.

 

[Old Crow]

I'm all for lasers and lightsabers in the intellect tree!

Coilguns!

 

[HammerDano]

I have had this lock picking thing on my brain.
I think I have a reasonably "good" alternative...keys

have keys "hidden" within a known radius of the locked object. (perks could reduce how far away they might be...idk)
that way you either find them or smash the lock...no mini game...no 20 random lockpick snaps

 

[Uncle Al]

Wow! I applaud your ability to completely obscure the context of the quote and make it appear that @Suxar is a psycho.

Based on your reply, I have to assume that you've never read the original Sherlock Holmes stories. @Suxar was quoting (or possibly paraphrasing) Holmes.

“When a doctor does go wrong, he is the first of criminals. He has nerve and he has knowledge.”

From this, one can extrapolate that a doctor's (especially a surgeon's) knowledge and ability allows them to kill swiftly, effectively, and potentially undetectably. In terms of the game, I expect the intention of the Physician Perk is to indicate the player now has enough knowledge of anatomy and physiology to locate and exploit the most effective ways to kill zombies. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there is not logic to it.

Over here in the UK we had Dr Harold Shipman, who I believe is often held to be the most prolific serial killer of all time. He murdered over 300 people, totally undetected, over many years. Was also a very good doctor, it's said. Apart from the killing patients thing, obviously. I think the ethics council frown on that.

 

[Riamus]

I have had this lock picking thing on my brain.
I think I have a reasonably "good" alternative...keys

have keys "hidden" within a known radius of the locked object. (perks could reduce how far away they might be...idk)
that way you either find them or smash the lock...no mini game...no 20 random lockpick snaps

Although I like the idea, there are POI with a lot of locked containers. Having all those keys might get to be a bit much. Maybe if it was limited to the loot room chests.

 

[Roland]

Although I like the idea, there are POI with a lot of locked containers. Having all those keys might get to be a bit much. Maybe if it was limited to the loot room chests.

Like Zelda. Keys only work in the specific dungeon where they are found.

 

[Roland]

How's that?

I'd play that. We could take it a step further and make a craftable lock pick tool kit. The recipe could be a repair kit, oil, and lockpicks. Once you have that you can open any lock. At brown level it takes 1 minute up to purple level it opens in 1 second. Each use could degrade it like any tool and the cost to repair would be....lockpicks. Like your idea, nothing breaks during the process. Your toolkit tier would control the wait time but the outcome would be guaranteed. The Jail Breaker drink could cut the timer in half for whatever tier toolkit you were using. No minigame either.

EDIT: Would need an additional magazine title to support it which would please some and disgust others..haha

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

There are so many, loot containters including potentially the actual dead corpses lying
around why not simply have keys linked to the specific pois. If you find a key in the trash
or on a corpse then somewhere, there is something to unlock. There are key racks but you
cant use them until you get inside. What about when gaining entry. front doors, cellars,
back doors. The mechanic is available to lock and unlock boxes.

It could be expanded to unlocking doors, to pois instead of bashing every one of them.

When used it is taken from inventory just like dropping trash on ground, or turning in
the satchels at the end of a fetch.

The safe locations could be in randomized odd locations, like under a bed or under a sofa
or under a trashpile.

Cars especially police vehicles and some of the special yet unuseable ones around the world
could have keys in random loot containers, corpses, or an errant zombie in the vicinity, that
is linked to an event spawn.

Keys could be loot within the sleepers, and tied to the pois. Zombies had a life too, until
they didn't. We get random treasure maps, why not poi maps in the world, and a key to a
specific house or location. A sleeper key may not work in the poi you are in, but maybe
before the were a neighbor, or owned a nearby store.