PC v1.x Developer Diary

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Pichun1 said:
Hi!

I saw a news story that said that TFP was not going to update the console version due to changes in the hardware, making console players have to pay for the game again, when on PC it is not necessary. I was going to correct them about the real reason but looking at the FAQ I saw the following text:

Wasn't the main reason a rights problem with Telltale? I ask because people were complaining about that, even though they were going to give a discount.
If you said about telltale, people would be more understanding. I don't understand why say something about the hardware.
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7dtd with the current feature set and assets will not run on PS4 and Xbox One. Not even close. The computer version of the game has moved beyond that hardware and it was a challenge to get it running reliably on current gen console hardware.

 
pApA^LeGBa said:
The reasoning is weird. There was no indicator whatsoever that you guys feel the game is launch ready. It´s quite the opposite feeling i get over the past year. I mean do whatever you want. But the reasoning. I am sorry i smell BS for the reasoning here. You guys never cared if it´s in EA or called 1.0 for over 10 years now and suddenly you do, even when still missing key features?

And again you can tell us whatever you want. Just don´t be surprised if not everyone buys it. And no one even asked why and yet you felt that a reason needs to be there when announcing this.

There might be NDA´s as already meantioned. But that doesn´t mean you need to serve some made up reason. Simply say, there is legal reasons and we can´t talk about it yet.

I know because we were told balancing will happen in Beta. And we get 1.0 without a Beta all of a sudden. And they can´t get Bandits done, they struggle a bit with RWG. I doubt there was any time for it with all the other stuff coming for 1.0.
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Every alpha we get ready for launch. 1.0 is the same getting ready for launch plus a few extra things.

We are not the Borg. We are a group of individuals. I care that it is still labeled EA.

You can literally say anything and not everyone will "buy" it. Even the greatest game in the world (whatever that is), will have 2% negative reviews. There is no pleasing everyone. If I could give everyone in the world a million dollars, I would have people complaining it was not enough or they don't want it or don't know what to do with it or I was up to no good.

We are doing a bunch of balancing and play testing right now, beta or not. We have bandits partially done, but for my part, I have tons of higher priority tasks to do before I get back to their AI. The primary programmer for RWG died, so more on my plate and we have actually made many improvements to it in the last 6 months that I am excited about.

 
Art suggestion future update?

Road tiles look fairly intact. I saw a mod once that broke up the road tiles with occasional blocks of grass - as if the road had aged/deteriorated enough to allow grass up through cracks here and there. (The mod no longer exists - the mod author was Russian and Nexus freaked on Russians when the whole Ukraine thing splashed - taken down/forced down, dunno)

Think old sections of Route 66.

zIcrOcmz2cHjo_ijE1M_w1SQRtV5yuKv61hEhxrkIXQ.webp

 
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faatal said:
7dtd with the current feature set and assets will not run on PS4 and Xbox One. Not even close. The computer version of the game has moved beyond that hardware and it was a challenge to get it running reliably on current gen console hardware.
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This is exactly why I was shocked that yall had listed support for the Series S. If you left it to just PS5 and Series X, that would make a lot more sense.

 
Vedui said:
I'd prefer we move away from the gold release term anyhow, as we don't do CD pressing, we can easily do day 1 (or day -1) bug AND content patches ... and easily subsequently update and add features through established protocols.
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Still have to submit a version to Sony/Microsoft for final approval.  And significant Day 1 patches shouldn't be a thing.  A game should be as bug free as possible at release.  Early adopters of released games becoming beta testers is one of the terrible things that has become common in the industry.

 
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Vaeliorin said:
Early adopters of released games becoming beta testers is one of the terrible things that has become common in the industry.
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Terrible or not it is common and has been common for years now. And despite all the online chatter that decries the behavior and calls it the worst failing of the industry, that sentiment is not reflected when you look at sales and play time numbers. I think it's about time to stop focusing on how "terrible" it is and accept that it is the industry normal now. We don't play games on cartridges, floppy discs or CDs either anymore. We've turned this corner in the industry and there is no reason to hold up this studio or that studio for operating within the same standards as everyone else.

It is obvious to the industry that the greatest concern and care of the consumer is to get their hands on new content as soon as possible. The desire to get content faster trumps the desire to get that content in a perfect form. Game studios know this and so they cater to the ASAP demand and let the quality demand slide in its favor-- and the fact that nothing has changed for years but instead settled even further into this model is a testament to how right they were in discerning the number one priority in their customers: sooner over better.

 
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The funny thing is that any consumer can decide to prioritize better over sooner simply by waiting to play the game until it is better. If someone is disappointed that 7 Days to DIe is not going to finished next month when it releases to 1.0, they can just wait another year to start playing it once it is better.

 
faatal said:
It would be nice to break nothing, but I don't know if that is practical. Code will change to make it better or add features, so if a mod is changing code it may need updating. xml formats may continue to change as needed. 
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Y'all aren't considering moving more XMLs to that weird csv format entitygroups is now in that makes it more difficult to xpath, are ya?

...please say no, even if it's really a yes... 

 
Roland said:
Terrible or not it is common and has been common for years now. And despite all the online chatter that decries the behavior and calls it the worst failing of the industry, that sentiment is not reflected when you look at sales and play time numbers. I think it's about time to stop focusing on how "terrible" it is and accept that it is the industry normal now. We don't play games on cartridges, floppy discs or CDs either anymore. We've turned this corner in the industry and there is no reason to hold up this studio or that studio for operating within the same standards as everyone else.

It is obvious to the industry that the greatest concern and care of the consumer is to get their hands on new content as soon as possible. The desire to get content faster trumps the desire to get that content in a perfect form. Game studios know this and so they cater to the ASAP demand and let the quality demand slide in its favor-- and the fact that nothing has changed for years but instead settled even further into this model is a testament to how right they were in discerning the number one priority in their customers: sooner over better.
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Just because it's standard at this point does not mean it is excusable.  Irresponsible consumers are welcome to waste money on terrible games that either never get fixed/finished, but they've severely damaged the industry for people that expect quality products.  Yes, we live in a society where consume product and get excited for next product is the norm, but that doesn't mean we should just accept it.  Unless people push back against the problems, they'll just continue to get worse.

Note I'm not talking about 7DTD here, just in general about the games industry.  There's a reason I've gone from buying dozens of games every year to buying maybe 2 or 3 (and usually ones that have been out for several years and are under $10 for the complete game), and it's not because of the economy.

 
meganoth said:
Guys, it is not about the change itself, @pApA^LeGBas concern is about whether TFP is keeping quiet on a major reason for the change. 

My feeling is that IF that is the case (because of NDA or simply because they did this just on suspicion it would look better to Sony/Microsoft), then it would be a rather harmless omission (comparable to not telling your grandmother that you go on a adventure cruise). I don't expect them to tell us everything. At least since I have been on this forum they never told us everything, especially about their bussiness dealings.
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There is a big difference between not telling us everything, wich is absolutly understandable, and giving out fake reasons. Customers these days are a mess. On one hand you have those who simply seem to absolutly hate the product and somehow still can´t simply ignore it, on the other you have people nearly praising the devs for everything they do. Sure there is a in between, but those 2 groups get larger every day it seems.

Since when is it weird to question it when a company makes up reasons and arguments? Ask yourself if you would want to deal with a person that acts that way?

Also i am not a fan of going 1.0 now. It means either that TFP will break save games, wich is a no go if you aren´t in early access, or the updates to come will only be minor. Both is nothing i want.

 
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pApA^LeGBa said:
What?

@faatal Well, that discussion in kinda pointless. But more importnant, how will updates work? I mean you surely won´t break saves anymore now when leaving early access. That would be an absolute no go. Wich means RWG is completly done, with 1.0 i assume?
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No, Fataal answered this already. Since savegames and world files have version information you can convert older versions to a new format at the start of the game. if necessary. This is just some programming effort, the deeper the changes the longer it takes to program.

The Factorio developers for example have done this since ages ago. You practically can start an old savegame from years ago and it will just run the savegame through ALL individual change routines until the save reaches the current version.

 
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pApA^LeGBa said:
So we had to do new saves for years now because TFP didn´t feel like implementing this earlier during development?
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Or more likely, they had higher priorities that the developers were already working on and this wasn’t high enough to devote the time and work on yet.

another possibility is that the game wasn’t developed far enough yet to implement it.

There are more than one reason why a feature is not released right away.

 
meganoth said:
No, Fataal answered this already. Since savegames and world files have version information you can convert older versions to a new format at the start of the game. if necessary. This is just some programming effort, the deeper the changes the longer it takes to program.

The Factorio developers for example have done this since ages ago. You practically can start an old savegame from years ago and it will just run the savegame through ALL individual change routines until the save reaches the current version.
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Slight correction... faatal said that they'll try to prevent a broken save between versions but that changes might not make that possible.  At least, unless I misunderstand what he said about it.

Question: Before 1.0 is released, will someone go through the POI XML and remove all the unused stuff?  Things like AllowedTownships and Zoning and stuff like that?  Having stuff from old versions that's no longer used just makes the XML more confusing for anyone trying to make their own POI and thinking that some parameter will do something when it doesn't.  I know it's a minor thing but it would be nice.

 
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