Upcoming Bandits in 7 Days to Die

theFlu said:
Hmm, "distorted"? I think that's its proper application, no?

Lots of games thrive exactly at the min/max, "short pvp" games like Dota2 obviously, they're measuring success by "seconds to an item"; and any "infinite scaling" game like WoW's Mythic+ raiding etc. Both then, of course, come with endless class balance issues...
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Different connotations. It's like saying "hardcore". It's an ambiguous term that can incorporate a vast number of concepts such that when someone unfamiliar with gaming terminology says "minimize loss, maximize profits" then that would generally be every single player that isn't purposefully intending to make things harder which then loses it's relevance to the conversation.

In gaming terms "min/max" is more often referred to players who go beyond a common threshold to perform above and beyond. An example would be picking the best loadout for WoW PvP as you progress versus Twinking a character and getting your character the best gear and keeping them at the desired max level for PvP - ex. level 20.

You can see that both are by technical definitional terms maximizing and minimizing to the best of their abilities. But for gaming terms the first player is just participating in PvP as they level and want to win, whereas the second character is maximizing their level (20 being the highest for a certain battleground) and getting the best level 20 gear available.
 
Kyoji said:
Twinking a character and getting your character the best gear and keeping them at the desired max level for PvP - ex. level 20.
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Heh, been there, done that! Might be a bit of a tell ;)
That is the "game as is"; that is PvP. I never stopped XP gains myself to maintain a low bracket twink for long, since I was intending to level the alts; but when there was a chance for quite a few good games with some juicy enchants, why wouldn't I?

The "unfairness" applies to new accounts / first characters, where you don't have the resources to pass down. If you have the resources, but choose not use them, that's a self-imposed nerf. I still had plenty of fun playing non-twinked alts as well. But without twink gear, you'll be at a massive disadvantage.

So the game is designed with minmaxing mechanics that aren't available for new accounts. It's designed to be unfair.

Is that a good design? At face value, No. But, Maybe? It encourages repeated play for those who see the power difference and want to get there themselves. Monthly fees and all... It doesn't feel good to get absolutely wrecked, but it does create a meta-game that you can excel at, and climbing That ladder will feel great.

Is it the twinks' fault either way? Nope.
 
I agree that min/maxing is what the game is-- or at least what it can be if you choose to play that style. I have no beef with people that play in such a fashion. My only criticism is when people claim that they are dissatisfied with the game because it can only be played in that particular fashion because the devs have forced it to be that way. That's a load of hogwash. If you enjoy min/maxing then do it. If you don't, then stop it.

Bandits will in no way emulate PvP gameplay. They are just another enemy that talks instead of groans and has an excuse for being able to suss out your base's engineering weaknesses-- and some of them have guns. Their fun factor for me will come in the form of events and reputation/faction progression. Gun fights vs squads of bandits and bandit infested POIs will be novel for a short time and then just become part of the normal gameplay and perhaps even somewhat insignificant as soon as pathing patterns are learned. Rage mode was novel for a short time but now I don't even think about it. It's just part of killing zombies--sometimes they run.

But I like progression systems in the game. I like progressing the tiers of crafting, the tiers of quests, the skills, the biomes, and I think I will like building up reputation with one faction or the other. It would be cool to eventually be able to walk into a bandit controlled POI and they all are happy to see me-- maybe have a task for me to do.
 
As long as bandits are not just another version of screamers (that constantly interrupt the parts of the game that I find most fun: building mining crafting ), then from my perspective, I don't care. But just like storms and biome progression locks, it should be able to be turned off.

Rather than adding these annoyances to the existing gameplay, I think the devs should be adding extensions to end game gameplay. Venturing into the radiation zones. Major "bosses" you have to defeat. Maybe a super long term goal to find a cure.

Constantly "tuning" the existing content, instead of expanding on it, makes me think this is still just alpha.
 
theFlu said:
I tend towards putting the blame on the game itself. Both groups, PvP griefers and minmaxers, are simply playing the game "as is". If a game like Rust rewards fast nolife grinding from server reset, and camping weaker players ... that's what the game IS. It's not a good game, IMO, at that point; but it's not really the griefers fault.

For 7dtd, PvP is such an afterthought that it basically works like Rust; it's just not a good game (for PvP, neither competitive or casual).
Minmaxers here; I dunno, I see them more useful than harmful - but admittedly, I am one. I see them as the people who figure out the most stupid exploits so they can be fixed. I can't really think of anything that has been unwarrantedly nerfed due to minmaxers, still IMO.
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Are there good games by this reasoning?

Can't think of a game without griefing and/or min/maxing.
 
Treb said:
Are there good games by this reasoning?
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Do note the "IMO" ;)
But, Yes, as many as there are players. As in, it's a matter of preference; if you're playing a game like Rust and enjoy it, you enjoy that type of a game. That's a "good game", for you; I think?

Treb said:
Can't think of a game without griefing and/or min/maxing.
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Chess is hard to grief at; I'd argue impossible. I know we're talking about video games, but the principle stands; griefing is design.
As for min/maxing, it basically is The Game for any PvP title, and a lot of PvE titles as well. Tetris is all minmax, Sim City a little less.
 
Riamus said:
And for the players who make a town POI into a base? It isn't a good option in this game.
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You obviously haven't played on dedicated servers much.
On a PvE server, this kind of behavior is often prohibited by the rules. It's incredibly annoying to travel 1-2 kilometers to a quest only to find out you can't complete it because someone else's claim or sleeping bag is in your possession.
And on a PvP server, this kind of behavior is suicidal. Other players will simply plunder your base.
 
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