Upcoming Bandits in 7 Days to Die

leonalayja said:
How can you say it's for players who don’t want PvP, and then turn around and say 'but PvP already exists'? What kind of logic is that?
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The kind of thing that passes for logic, in the brains of those afflicted with the diseased "PvP" brains.

Que up ..."...BRAINS..."

I don't know about what everybody else is going to do, but I want, and am well satisfied with, a ZOMBIE apocalypse.

No need nor interest in BANDITS! If they don't come with an opt out setting, then I'll just be editing them out.
 
RipClaw said:
There are games that have tried this. The result was that PvP players camped outside the PvE area in the hope of finding easy targets.
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I don't mind a shootout with other players when dividing up the loot, but I want peace and quiet at my base. Plus, it's not much fun to have a looted base after not logging in for a couple of days.

I'd prefer the base to be in the PvE zone and the towns in the PvP zone. Then I'd have a quiet base that no one touches and a nice boost of energy when looting POIs.
 
PVP mode exists very long but it being outdated, arcady and unballanced - kills any reason and sence to play it! Also almost nobody who makes PVP dedicated servers - doesnt bother spending time on reballancing game for it (because its long and not easy)
PVP needs refresh and its a fact! "Nobody forces PVE player to play PVP at gunpoint, and i will say that many times"
 
ALEXZANDER said:
PVP mode exists very long but it being outdated, arcady and unballanced - kills any reason and sence to play it! Also almost nobody who makes PVP dedicated servers - doesnt bother spending time on reballancing game for it (because its long and not easy)
PVP needs refresh and its a fact! "Nobody forces PVE player to play PVP at gunpoint, and i will say that many times"
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But at the same time, TFP have been very open with the fact PVP is not a priority for them, so I wouldn't expect significant PVP-focused rebalance until after 4.0 if ever.
 
Suxar said:
I don't mind a shootout with other players when dividing up the loot, but I want peace and quiet at my base. Plus, it's not much fun to have a looted base after not logging in for a couple of days.

I'd prefer the base to be in the PvE zone and the towns in the PvP zone. Then I'd have a quiet base that no one touches and a nice boost of energy when looting POIs.
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And for the players who make a town POI into a base? It isn't a good option in this game.

ALEXZANDER said:
PVP mode exists very long but it being outdated, arcady and unballanced - kills any reason and sence to play it! Also almost nobody who makes PVP dedicated servers - doesnt bother spending time on reballancing game for it (because its long and not easy)
PVP needs refresh and its a fact! "Nobody forces PVE player to play PVP at gunpoint, and i will say that many times"
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PVP isn't a priority for TFP as they have said multiple times. They made it possible for people, but it won't receive much improvement before 4.0. Nor should it. Also, if people want to do PVP, there are a LOT of other games out there for it that are much better suited for PVP. No reason to get hung up on having to play PVP in this game or any other PVE game that isn't designed for PVP.
 
I have played around 40hrs on PVP servers and some of the issues with PVP that I have is people dont play by rules/grief you/camp outside of a trader and shoot you while talking the a trader. All of which are super cheesy and not fun for players. I will take Bandits that dont do that over PVP any day.

No matter what game it is I have never played a PVP game without someone trying to cheat/grief/ruin the "fun" for honest players.
 
Samcharles said:
I'm not going to try to change your mind. I'm just going to say different people like different things.
I'll very likely never play pvp in this game because it seems woefully unbalanced. New pvp players seem like they will get wrecked by the higher level ones. The idea of someone destroying my base and all the things I store in it? No thank you.
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this is the biggest reason even when playing by the servers rules its not fun. The game isnt balanced AT ALL for PVP. Games like Rust are much better balanced because there are no character stats to take into account. its just gear and skills.
 
warmer said:
I have played around 40hrs on PVP servers and some of the issues with PVP that I have is people dont play by rules/grief you/camp outside of a trader and shoot you while talking the a trader. All of which are super cheesy and not fun for players. I will take Bandits that dont do that over PVP any day.

No matter what game it is I have never played a PVP game without someone trying to cheat/grief/ruin the "fun" for honest players.
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Yeah, that's why PVP is not more popular. If PVP players didn't do stuff like that, you'd have a lot more people interested in playing PVP, which would benefit PVP players. But there are so many of them with that attitude that acting like idiots is what PVP is all about.
 
Riamus said:
Yeah, that's why PVP is not more popular. If PVP players didn't do stuff like that, you'd have a lot more people interested in playing PVP, which would benefit PVP players. But there are so many of them with that attitude that acting like idiots is what PVP is all about.
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Is always the few that ruin it. I mean look at min/maxers :) /runs
 
Rotor said:
Is always the few that ruin it. I mean look at min/maxers :) /runs
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I tend towards putting the blame on the game itself. Both groups, PvP griefers and minmaxers, are simply playing the game "as is". If a game like Rust rewards fast nolife grinding from server reset, and camping weaker players ... that's what the game IS. It's not a good game, IMO, at that point; but it's not really the griefers fault.

For 7dtd, PvP is such an afterthought that it basically works like Rust; it's just not a good game (for PvP, neither competitive or casual).
Minmaxers here; I dunno, I see them more useful than harmful - but admittedly, I am one. I see them as the people who figure out the most stupid exploits so they can be fixed. I can't really think of anything that has been unwarrantedly nerfed due to minmaxers, still IMO.
 
theFlu said:
I tend towards putting the blame on the game itself. Both groups, PvP griefers and minmaxers, are simply playing the game "as is". If a game like Rust rewards fast nolife grinding from server reset, and camping weaker players ... that's what the game IS. It's not a good game, IMO, at that point; but it's not really the griefers fault.

For 7dtd, PvP is such an afterthought that it basically works like Rust; it's just not a good game (for PvP, neither competitive or casual).
Minmaxers here; I dunno, I see them more useful than harmful - but admittedly, I am one. I see them as the people who figure out the most stupid exploits so they can be fixed. I can't really think of anything that has been unwarrantedly nerfed due to minmaxers, still IMO.
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I half jokingly meant it. As a casual player for most things (even when I replay), I am seldom in a rush. At some point and time, a part of my play has been hindered by some one who did xyz at 10 to nth degree, and complained about their feat and hence changed game play. I get the style of play, it is challenge, like in PvP in a matter of speak. I am also entertained when I read about those feats, but it bothers me to the core when the pendulum swings the opposite way because of it. If I can do something in x time for y qty casually, and Joe blow comes in says he did it in less for more and deville goes the other way past my "normal" x and y, then the min/maxer that brings that about falls into my "griefer" camp equally.

That is all.
 
Rotor said:
If I can do something in x time for y qty casually, and Joe blow comes in says he did it in less for more and deville goes the other way past my "normal" x and y, then the min/maxer that brings that about falls into my "griefer" camp equally.
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I do get the frustration; but it's not the minmaxer breaking the game. The game was already broken, and the fix was poor. (Or some such ;) )
 
The "Min/Max" conversation has also been distorted to include playing in a way as intended by the game parameters. So basically if you are playing the game and find out that quests give more rewards than not questing then a lot of players will naturally and sometimes unknowingly gravitate towards doing more quests. A lot of people are like water and will generally go down the path of least resistance, it's basic psychology.

So some game mechanic balancing isn't due to players trying to hardcore min/max but just playing the game as it comes. If you play ARK you generally aren't trying to just be content with a low level tame, you go get yourself a high level T-Rex or Giga. That isn't min/maxing, but playing the game as intended.
 
Personally, I like min/maxers and pvp griefers for the same reason:

Both play around with the boundaries of the rules in interesting ways. It makes for interesting stories, but their actions also describes rule interactions that might not be immediately obvious. While actual min/maxing produces gameplay that I don't personally find enjoyable, it can lead me to try playthrough approaches I wouldn't have come up with on my own. Typically: if min/maxxers never ever do x or y, what if I only do x and y? A lot of times that ends up being a lot of fun.

Or, one of the earliest examples of griefing I ever experienced was in some online racing game. Forget which one it was, but you'd run into players that the only thing they wanted to do was drive the race circuit backwards and try to ram people playing normally. I was never a fan of doing that to other players, because I am not amused by ruining other people's fun, but I did discover that driving in the wrong direction in racing games and trying to get head-on collisions with specific cars was both challenging and fun.

Plus, one of my favorite things in the world is observing what happens when complex systems meet human interaction and have unintended results. I was there for the blood curse in WoW, which was absolutely amazing and hands down one of the best moments in gaming ever.
 
Kyoji said:
The "Min/Max" conversation has also been distorted to include playing in a way as intended by the game parameters.
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Hmm, "distorted"? I think that's its proper application, no?

Lots of games thrive exactly at the min/max, "short pvp" games like Dota2 obviously, they're measuring success by "seconds to an item"; and any "infinite scaling" game like WoW's Mythic+ raiding etc. Both then, of course, come with endless class balance issues...
 
The issue with grouping the two ways of playing together is that there are significant differences in how people play. Doing quests if they offer an easier or faster way to get experience or rewards or something (in any game) may technically be min/maxing, but it's also how most people are likely to play the game and are perhaps expected to play the game. The other side are the hardcore min/maxers who will count seconds to try to do things in the absolute fastest way or who will get upset because they it takes a few seconds longer to do something after a change in an update. Things like that. Those may be both min/maxing, but they are also very different. And I think most people who are against min/maxing are commenting on the latter and not the former. But you do tend to see people who support it who include the former, perhaps as a way to make it not seem like such a "negative" thing to be a min/maxer when debating it.

That said, what does min/maxing have to do with bandits? I'm sure there will be a min/max gameplay style that is used after we have bandits, but that's kind of a side note and not really about the bandits.
 
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