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True Survival

I'm glad your back too :)

I am looking forward to TS a17, Its going to be hard but that is good :)

I also really want the practice makes perfect way back.

The play style of the game now matches mine but I don't like the idea of killing zeds to learn about science as an example.

So I assume that the old system will be at some point modded back in by some one. I Might take a stab at it in a couple of months.

Also if you need small bits of work done that are similar to what I want to do for my mod maybe we could collaborate a bit and share some of the overall work load. Cheers

 
Good conversation of game ideas on Steam I wanted to share so I'm reposting-

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/HardcoreSurvivalServer/discussions/1/3020122487783920354/?tscn=1543235062

Ya I hate the new Gun Perks. In what world does me studding something make my gun shoot more bullets? Or why on earth would anything i study or train in make the same bullet i shot 5 min ago do more damage this time i shoot it? It's just dumb.

What I want to do is make the stats back on weapons and make the mods/attachment have the bonus stats. Like you are saying yes.

As for vehicles as in A16 I don't see any reason why finding bikes, motorcycles and cars would be a problem in the zombie apocalypse. They would be everywhere, gas and keeping them repaired would be the problem. So bicycles will be scattered in garage loot and maybe laying around the map if I can. Motorcycles might be found in car workshops or parked in garages. As for cars I was thinking of making Car Keys a low chance drop in cars. If you found car keys in a car it would place as a 4x4. But you would still need gas. All these vehicles would only be found in world loot/map at a max quality level of 2. So early game repairing it would only be from looting repair kits and the only way to get better vehicle would be to craft one

Also progression talk-

Its not looking like “Working to improve” will be doable this alpha like it has been in the past. TFP have removed the code that allows it. So…

I was thinking of throwing the whole thing out. Instead of leveling and picking your player attributes as you play(where now you can kill a zombie and learn how to cook from the xp). Instead what if we picked our character before hand. Like a profession, and these professions would have all the stats baked in. Like Fitness instructor could run,walk faster, have slower stamina drain but need more food, but only have quality level 1 crafting. Then a engineer might have quality level 3 crafting and a lot of recipes unlocked but lose stamina faster, be more susceptible to illnesses and a Cop could have lv1 crafting but reload faster, hip shot better,melee better. And so on, you get the point.

But after that no more buying perks. We could have 3 quest set at different levels that when you completed them it would raise you crafting level one level. This way a player could only raise their quality crafting 3 levels the entire game so if you start with a “physical” character build you may only ever get to level 3 or 4 quality but you will crush with a given weapon and the “intelligent” character build would get to level 6 quality by endgame but would never be as good with weapons as the “physical” player.

One thing I will give A17 is there is a ton of new stats I can adjust for the player that I could not do in A16 so “Professions” could be very unique and distinctive. I also have the ability to keep buff on a player after death which allows me to control stats on a player the entire game and not just until you die. Why this is cool is now i could give specific buffs to a profession that the player could have on them the entire game.

**updated**

Just got a good idea in the shower...haha

I was thinking of what to do with the xp and leveling if we went with this. Then it came to me. How about you still get one point when you level but there is only one thing you can buy “Life Tree”(good name idk?). Everytime you put a point in here a random thing would happen based of what profession you are. Such as. Say your a Cop you click learn and you get +0.1 Reloadspeed added to your permanent player stats or the other side of the coin and if you haven't been hungry below 50% in the last week you get gout and have slowed movement speed and lowered weapon skills until you can cure it. The options of effects could be eminse pretty much when you click that buy perk I can make anything happen to you both good and bad. So the Life Tree would be like what happened as you gained experience since the last time you leveled. It could be good…”improved one of you unique profession stats” or could be bad just by chance ,”Developed arthritis in knee take pain pill to manage” or based off what you have been doing”If you been sick in the last week develop chest cold and lower stamina regen rest on bed for X time or find a doctor to treat you”. It could also trigger a quest or let you have an epiphany and learn a unknown recipe.The Life tree could also be Profession specific so different things would happen to different character builds

 
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I joined the steam group, but I'll write it here.

I agree on mostly every idea you posted so far. One thing I haven't read or maybe I misread is what happens if someone is playing solo or in group of 2 friends? This idea of yours could actually be great when I play with my 5 friends, meaning, everyone must specialize in something and keep making his character better in that field, meaning no one will be the same and we depend on him and vice versa. That same "depending" could be bad.

Professions should be fun and challenging by giving players freedom and choice, because that's the main issue players have right now with A17. Again, if you could somehow not lock players in just their field of profession but giving them the choice to be anything they want that would be the best I think.

So, TL;DR -

Your idea mixed with

- Professions making your character unique and immersive/fun/challenging

- Not locking perks and progressions just to the profession skill tree but giving freedom to other skill trees. (Improve faster and better on the perks linked with that profession, improve slower on other skill trees linked with other professions. Maybe even have small handicaps/penalties when they start learning different skill trees, that way players could learn everything while making them focus on what character they have chosen in the start. I think this is the main idea you should implement. I could describe it more if I am confusing.

As you stated, perks for improving fire guns damage/magazine should be scrapped, weapon mods should be used only. Melee weapons should be based on perks + weapon mods. A balance between them.

How you have spent the week idea is a nice one, I would like to hear more about it

 
I put out a modlet that shows how melee weapon modifiers can change damage and perks, and TFP did a decent job showing the same on guns so that stuff should support your ideas.

 
@xFORCERx -

The SP vs MP thing is a complicated matter. It is in my thoughts and will be taken into account when things are finalized. I have to do some work testing the functionality of quest and dialogue before I get into how all this will work. Stay tuned.

Im thinking, no buying perks with points gained from xp. The only buyable skill will be your "Progression Tree" (better name?). Now we can have some sort of perks I'm not against them as long as they make some logical since and not magic types like "your gun holds more ammo" , but we can award them with quest or found loot items instead of points gained from generic xp. Also most recipes I would like to put back in loot or quest BUT for the recipes of items we have learned don't work finding in loot like Forge, Iron Tools, Steel Tools. Those I would like to put in the Progression Tree so at a set level the player could be given some quest to learn those recipes.

Now I have talked about how crafting to improve an item is dead but I can still track a player doing things with tools or weapons and its even a little better than before because I can track every time you kill a zombie or break any block with a specific stated weapon/tool. What's this mean? It means we could still have leveling skills for mining and weapons and players could not cheese the system by banging the item on a wall all night because it will only count your zombie kills or block breaks with it. So having the action skills you selected when you chose your profession level is no problem.

 
I agree, I also decided that it would be easier to just throw away all this crap.

So... You come back ? :)

 
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@n2n1-

Sup man, long time, yup I'm back as promised and ya it looks like I will just be deleting the whole progression file and start coding on a blank page lol..... no for real lol

O! and another thought

What do we think of the new stamina/hunger stat being connected? I'm not sure I like it. I could bring back a hunger stat and just use that as stamina tracker. Also Wellness! Do we want that type of thing again.

Hay question has anyone started to relies A17 removed way more features/items/mechanics from the game than TFP let on. They act like they gave us some new thing but don't tell us it takes the place of 3 old ones they deleted.....geez

 
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Ok I have been giving players picking their stats some thought. I like what we had in the past, using professions but I think I would like to give the player a little more control over their player build. Now I thought about dropping the professions and just setting up stats and giving the player a set number of choices. While this is doable it would make some of the other things I want to do much more complicated and maybe impossible. So like always I’ll do a little of both.

How does this sound. In A17 the player will get 1 choice of a profession trait, one choice of hobby trait and one choice of a fighting style trait.

-Professions could be thought of as what your character did as a career before the apocalypse.

The Profession choice would decide your starting recipes, gear and quest line. Professions could also include other player stats or special abilities.

-Hobbies could be thought of as what your character liked to do in their free time before the apocalypse.. The Hobby choice would give slight increase in player specific stats.

-Fighting style could be thought of as in a life or death struggle how your character would instinctively defend themselves. Fighting style could get a special move with a given weapon or further improve its giving skills.

With this system a player could more freely choose a play style that more fits them. You could be a Bare Knuckle fighting Chemist that played Paintball on the weekends or a Farmer that loved swinging his machete and tinkered in coding in his free time.

Also with A17 I want to make these choices not only have up sides but also down sides. So the fitness instructor might sprint his but off but his calorie intake would be high or the Doctor is more clumsy and make more noise than other players. Stuff like that. So instead of one Profession pick you would get 1 Profession, 1 Hobby and 1 Fighting Style pick

Here's what I have so far if you can think of others please post them.

Professions-

Medic

Construction Worker(Builder)

Drug Cook(Chemist)

Military

Craftsman(Crafter)

Thief(Scavenger)

Farmer

Hobbies-

hunting

gardening

cooking

drugs

gearhead

Fitness Junky

Ice Fishing

sunbathing

Arts and Crafts

Paintball

Baseball

Running

Gaming

Coding

Fighting Styles-

Archery

Handguns

Rifles

Heavy Weapons

Clubs

Blades

explosives

Traps

Unarmed

Thoughts? Additions?

 
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@wolverine576-

Ya Gear-head something like. "Since you were a kid you loved engines. Now you can always fine tune any vehicle you ride for just a little better performance" [+5% Vehicle Speed -5% Fuel Consumption ] On any vehicle you use.

Ya I would like to keep the Professions to as few as possible for future quest reasons. So I was tryn to make them like over all game play actions (fighting, building, crafting, medical, looting, drug crafting, farming). So ya looks like I missed one we need a farmer at lest unless someone can think of other game actions I'm forgetting.

If you wanted a ranger play style you might pick Farmer Profession, Hunting Hobby and Archer or Rifles for fighting.

*Updated post with Farmer.

 
I like how you dealt with the starting skills and perks. How is the player then progressing afterwards, leveling and perks? Can he learn almost everything in the very late game or is he restricted to the first 3 things he chose at the start? I am not just talking about single player mode but multiplayer aswell with 3 friends. It would be nice if maybe they could learn everything or almost everything but at a very slow rate. Or maybe even add Talent tree which he unlocks every 15th level...

The thing I would really like is to scrap the whole perk system we have right now and use slighty old system while keeping the best things of the new one, so mix of both. Give them the starting roles they want to play but give them the maximum freedom to learn many things they can do in the game but don't make it easy and boring, let it be challenging and fun. My previous post has exactly that

 
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During the game the player could improve skills in any action skill by killing zombies with a given type of weapon or level Mining or loging(?) by breaking blocks with a given tool. Also the player can scavenge for crafting recipes which would be all found in loot except Iron Tools, Steel Tools and Forge. Those will be unlocked by completing a quest at a given player level. Also you will have a Hunting skill to level to gather more animal parts from harvested animals and unlock special tool maybe. Also either a quest or leveling skill for Farming. Also unlocking 6 building style skills with quest.

That's just for leveling/improving skill things.[WIP] Also I am shooting to make something I and other have talked about for about 5 alphas now. So you will have a Story Driven Quest chain that is profession specific, that will intertwine with all the other profession's quests wither you are playing SP or MP. This quest will give back story on the outbreak and offer you a chance to cure it and save humanity and yourself(if you can). This quest chain will be available in RWG only and have special poi locations and many, many surprises. My inspiration is to have a quest line like Resident Evil where you could play one side of the story then go back as a different profession and play the other side, also I am trying for multiple path quests so different endings are possible, its complicated.

 
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Loving the ideas so far. I agree to gut the perk system and give it another purpose. It should almost be a secondary or inconsequential thing where as you level up, you may get a small added bonus to your current skills - much like a mod to a weapon, except this is a mod to your character that is gained with time (xp)..... Despite this, it doesn't need to be system that the character must depend on to survive or gain new skills. So theoretically, I should be able to play a game without using the system, but if I can be bothered to use it so I can push out that one extra point in damage (by strength increase for example) then that's my decision.

Speaking of weapon mods - can they come with bonuses AND penalties? So a silencer mod reduces range? While I am sorry to see the loss of the parts system, perhaps it can be re imagined with having a range of mods available, but each has a penalty attached - so you never get the perfect weapon. Perhaps you need to keep 2 guns with you, each one modded to cope with a particular situation?

 
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@naxter60-

Yes as far as I know weapon mods can have a negative effect, and that's a good idea I'll put it in. Yes this weapon system is real cool but I liked the old one for gameplay better. I wish they would of just allowed buffs on items and kept A16 gun parts then it would of been awesome, best of both worlds. Not sure if you read it but yes True Survival will have weapon parts again like A16 but how consequential the quality is to the completed gun is yet to be worked out. They may just end up being items for a recipe idk yet.

 
@naxter60-Yes as far as I know weapon mods can have a negative effect, and that's a good idea I'll put it in. Yes this weapon system is real cool but I liked the old one for gameplay better. I wish they would of just allowed buffs on items and kept A16 gun parts then it would of been awesome, best of both worlds. Not sure if you read it but yes True Survival will have weapon parts again like A16 but how consequential the quality is to the completed gun is yet to be worked out. They may just end up being items for a recipe idk yet.
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I didn't know about the parts, so that is good to hear. If it is any help, I imagine that if there was a real Z apocalypse, and I found parts, I would have no idea how to put them together. If I found a working gun, I could use it until its broken but I dont know how to repair or maintain them. I wouldnt know how to attach or detach mods either. It is point and shoot until it stops shooting and for good measure I would then throw the gun at them :) But a person with the skill/profession would know how to build and mod a weapon. A gunsmith would know how to make good quality guns. So perhaps somehow that can be applied in game?

 
@naxter60-Not sure if you played any past True Survival builds but it sounds like you got the idea.
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I have - (Its Sizemoe here haha). I guess I am suggesting that in TS 16.2 there were a lot of gun parts found, but I had little use for them since I was more of a nailed bat person. Perhaps upping the chance of finding working guns (random low to medium qual) is good enough for players like me, and for players who want to use working guns with mods need the right hobby/skillbook to do so, and players who want to build flawless guns (using parts for a recipe) need the right Profession.

Just a thought

 
O lol ok whats up then. Yes whole guns quality level 1 and 2 will be in loot. I think because you will not be able to take a gun apart like in a16 you will not have as many parts laying around. I'll have to check to see if I can withhold gun modding by some mechanic haven't tried yet.

 
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