Soulmonster
Refugee
Maybe it is just time to move on and play some other game? It's bizarre to make so much fuss over a computer game not turning out the way you want.
Time to reflect
- Thread starter Charger265
- Start date
Dark Sun
Survivor
This. I am a long time veteran approaching 10000 hours of play. I still like the game. All of it? No. But with the recent townhall and explanation of fixes i am content with that. I dont miss LBD one second and jars are irrelevant to me. Now according to the ranter i am a fanboy and not critical. Just because my opinion differs. Well i will them them die on those hills. Because that is gonna happen. Nothing more and nothing less. For the record, they dont speak for me and still are just a loud minority.
I would like to add my own personal perspective. I'm also a player bordering 10,000 hours. I'd been consuming the game religiously on YouTube for years until I finally got a decent PC just before A17 experimental. (Many people, myself included, criticized many features in that alpha, to the point I almost skipped it entirely, but that's neither here nor there. A18 will forever remain my favorite alpha, for its time. It saved the game for me, and aside from a couple of critiques relating to hit box detection, the game looking washed out at times, and random world generation, I had no critiques at all. None.)
Am I entirely happy with the experience today? No. The whole jar/dew collector conversation is a huge nothing burger to me. I literally don't care either way, I'm content with one or the other. Do I miss LBD? To some extent, yes, particularly when it comes to upgrading weapon skills. The magazine system can feel tedious at times, and highly exploitative during others. (Often I purposefully spread out my skill points / not focus on one particular skill because I like a longer game.) I'm also critical of how much bias perking into a skill gives when it comes to books. Completing, for example, the Bar Brawling book set within a couple of weeks was a huge achievement before determined solely by sheer luck, now it's almost expected.
Anyhoo, my main critiques are the step away from survival elements and the sandbox nature of the game as a whole (some things not even mods can properly address/have addressed). Alpha 19, with its linear looting nature, as my second least favorite version of the game for this reason. Replayability is something I always look for in this genre. Looting, in my opinion, isn't as exciting anymore, a lot of exploration has been taken out of the game, and again, small things like temperature have been stripped away over time. (Hopefully it's added back in someday.)
But I also recognize that as a veteran player, while the voice of my Clan has some small amount of weight, ultimately at the end of the day, we do not really matter. If the game would benefit success wise much more so by turning into an RPG, heck even a card game if TFP did that sudden of a U-turn, then so be it, who am I to disagree?
Maybe it's just me, but the videos produced by JaWoodle and the like came across as entitled and whiny to me, and if I were TFP, I would have simply ignored them entirely and let the Steam charts fester and then return to normal over the coming months. Much of the 7D2D fanbase will never be satisfied unless TFP stripped away every modern mechanic and feature and returned us to A16 (which PC players can downgrade to, by the way...), and even then they'd find something to complain about. Such is human nature.
Syphon583
Survivor
This creator has been an outspoken critic of TFP and 7DTD for a while, going so far as to admit on his channel on multiple occasions that the only reason he plays the game is because it's what his channel was originally built on and he would lose viewers if he stopped playing it. His opinion is hardly what I would describe as that of the "core player base".
Does 2.0 have it's issues? Yes. Have TFP been reading feedback? Yes. Are they responding to that feedback? Yes. What the actual F do you expect to gain from this post? What can be done is being done.
Dark Sun
Survivor
Addition: The slow butchering of stealth, my favorite playstyle, in the more recent versions of the game is also something I find fault with. No, you probably shouldn't be able to successfully assassinate every single zombie in a T4/T5 POI, but it's not what it was...
As for some positives. The game looks better than ever. The amount of shapes and deco items we have to play with (even if 99% of the latter are locked behind the creative menu) cannot be praised enough. I enjoy the combat in this game, especially the ragtoll physics. Personally, I'm not a minmaxer who speeds around town, looting every single book container and getting a gyro within a week. I always find it hilarious when speedrunners speedrun a game and then complain the experience is too short. This is not to dismiss any critique related to game balance (in no world should you be able to unlock auto shotgun crafting within 7 days), but still...
The perk system is serviceable as is. It's not perfect, but it's not terrible, either. Only a few perks (ex. The Infiltrator) feel genuinely useless nowadays.
It is still possible to experience some of that old school feel the game once had (by not rushing things...), even if a lot of the grit is gone.
I will say in his defence that much shade can be thrown YouTube's way for purposefully pigeonholing people into one particular pipeline of content. Deviate from it, and your channel will be punished for it, so unless you want to start over...
Not to mention that viewers are extremely picky creatures. Even if everyone had received notifications for a new video going up showcasing another title, you'd be lucky to get half the view count as your regular output.
So I do kind of feel sympathetic towards him... a bit. But that's more of a YouTube/human viewing habit problem than anything.
As for some positives. The game looks better than ever. The amount of shapes and deco items we have to play with (even if 99% of the latter are locked behind the creative menu) cannot be praised enough. I enjoy the combat in this game, especially the ragtoll physics. Personally, I'm not a minmaxer who speeds around town, looting every single book container and getting a gyro within a week. I always find it hilarious when speedrunners speedrun a game and then complain the experience is too short. This is not to dismiss any critique related to game balance (in no world should you be able to unlock auto shotgun crafting within 7 days), but still...
The perk system is serviceable as is. It's not perfect, but it's not terrible, either. Only a few perks (ex. The Infiltrator) feel genuinely useless nowadays.
It is still possible to experience some of that old school feel the game once had (by not rushing things...), even if a lot of the grit is gone.
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I will say in his defence that much shade can be thrown YouTube's way for purposefully pigeonholing people into one particular pipeline of content. Deviate from it, and your channel will be punished for it, so unless you want to start over...
Not to mention that viewers are extremely picky creatures. Even if everyone had received notifications for a new video going up showcasing another title, you'd be lucky to get half the view count as your regular output.
So I do kind of feel sympathetic towards him... a bit. But that's more of a YouTube/human viewing habit problem than anything.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
So now youre trying to twist it so that I am responsible for the fact that the game used to be how I liked it and then it got ruined? The mods I needed back then to enjoy the game was 0 or 1 at the very most and its still true whenever I play that version. Really not my fault it went downhill since as I had literally no sway over the devs (wish I had).
Soulmonster
Refugee
I didn't say you are responsible. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I merely point out the triviality of a game developing in a direction you don't like.
Syphon583
Survivor
Oh, I'm not oblivious to how it works. It sucks that he's in that position. The point still stands, that his opinion is tainted by the fact that he feels forced to play a game he clearly does not enjoy. And you know what? That's perfectly valid. There are extremely popular games that I hated playing. My issue with the OP is the validation he's seeking by posting a video from a content creator. There could be a dozen of these videos on YT. Doesn't change the fact that they represent a small fraction of the ACTUAL player base.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
You literally said I should give up and stop playing the game I paid for and liked because someone else ruined it. No sir, not gonna happen. And I thank all the kind souls who are helping me retain my sanity in the mod section of this forum.
Soulmonster
Refugee
It seems kind of masochistic but you do you.
Dark Sun
Survivor
Of course, sorry for cherrypicking part of your message though. It's good you know how the YouTube side of things work though, not everyone does.
I have the same problem with OP, and Prebuilt for that matter. Nothing against him, but I find his content too negative for my tastes. There's critique and just... obviously hating something / bashing it constantly.
"Doesn't change the fact that they represent a small fraction of the ACTUAL player base."
That's a general community problem across everything (to be hyperbolic). It happens in movies, comic books, video games, novels, anime... The most passionate, hardcore fans genuinely believe that they speak for the majority, and just parrot one another. While a wise king surrounds himself with critical staff, he'd also be a fool to think they have the interests of the entire kingdom in mind.
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I say this with all kind honesty, stay away from the subreddit...
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Masochistic? Lmao, but thats exactly what the devs want the game to feel like and what some people keep defending. No fun allowed, just constant struggle and frustration. "Nowhere is safe" is a popular catchphrase even. Im going the entirely other way so youre really barking on the wrong tree here. Like you nicely said tho, you do you.
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MaxTunnerX
Refugee
Thanks, I guess
.Can someone explain the shift from people suggesting ways to improve the game to then the same people saying TFP shouldn't change anything because you can't make everyone happy?
I don't understand why everything has to be zero sum. Why can't people who are still not happy admit that the town hall did some things right and the people who didn't want changes admit that there were people looking for and suggesting changes after 2.0?
Every thread inetivably devolves into shouting matches on why everything they say is wrong because of reasons not pertaining to the changes they are asking to keep or remove.
If you enjoyed the game and don't want change what change did you not like? If you want more change what is it and why would that be good? Then discuss those topics. Not general statements on why one person is more right than another.
I don't understand why everything has to be zero sum. Why can't people who are still not happy admit that the town hall did some things right and the people who didn't want changes admit that there were people looking for and suggesting changes after 2.0?
Every thread inetivably devolves into shouting matches on why everything they say is wrong because of reasons not pertaining to the changes they are asking to keep or remove.
If you enjoyed the game and don't want change what change did you not like? If you want more change what is it and why would that be good? Then discuss those topics. Not general statements on why one person is more right than another.
Soulmonster
Refugee
I really enjoy the game and with the latest 2.0 version I enjoy it even more. I am happy I am not you.
Rotor
Survivor
It is the way!
Of the keyboard warriors.
Nothing you can do about it.
Now-a-days is quite tame campared to the NNTP days circa 1996
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Dark Sun
Survivor
At least from my perspective, it can be summarized as follows: critique should always be welcome, so long as it is civil, constructive, and respectful. Feature suggestions are great, as well. However, people are individuals, and we all have different ideas on how to 'improve' the game, even if many of us congregate on certain areas. Players often do not know, however, what is best for a game. The most passionate people suggesting changes/additions/reworks/etc. are the 5%. The developers make a game for themselves first and foremost, much like how a painter will at the end of the day produce an art piece that is tailored to their vision. Should TFP listen to feedback? Probably. Should they listen to all feedback? Probably not. Should they implement all suggested changes? Absolutely not. (Ex. I'm sure a tiny vocal minority somewhere wants 7D2D to be a mostly PVP focused title, ala Rust.)
Basically, if you're part of the 5%, don't get arrogant that you "should" have a say on how the game should be developed, and don't get angry if the devs say "no".
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However, if TFP chose to ignore absolutely everything the online vocal minority asks/demands, they would have every logical right to do so, at least from a numbers perspective.
Riamus
Hunter
I'm not sure I've seen any real shift. People can say that they agree certain things could be better or changed and still say that they are fine with what TFP is doing. For example, I would love to have improved electricity options, particularly logic gates. But if they don't add those, I'm fine with that. I don't *need* them even if I'd *like* them. It's also the case that a person may be saying they don't think a specific change or set of changes should be done because that particular change or set of changes doesn't appeal to them even though they'd like other changes. And anyone who is willing to be realistic should probably agree that TFP can't make everyone happy and so trying to do so is a no-win situation. When devs do that too much, it leads to a muddy mess of a game that tries to appease everyone and ends up failing for everyone. Instead of having at least one group of people who like the game because it's the kind of game they are interested in, even if others don't like it, they try to make everyone like it and then it's not a great game for any group and just fails miserably. Better to only make changes that are in line with your goals than to try to appease everyone.
As far as people who aren't happy being unwilling to admit that there are positives to the game... that seems to be human nature, or perhaps upbringing. If they say the game has good things, then they can't claim the game is completely worse than A16 or whatever. They don't want to admit to things getting better unless the specific things they want to come back (LBD, jars, etc.) are done. Anyhow, the "town hall" was really good and most people will be happy with it, I think. But it's still that loud minority who will complain about everything and never admit to anything being good if their specific changes aren't implemented.
And, yeah... whether some part of the game is good or bad is entirely subjective. It's an opinion and cannot be right or wrong by definition. As soon as you say something (anything) is bad or good, you are almost always in the realm of opinion. There are of course exceptions or gray areas.
MaxTunnerX
Refugee
No offense, but this post creeps me the hell out. Just like all the fake ratings on Amazon. "10/10 got one for my husband top quality". And feel free to enjoy the game, I just wish some people realised that giving people a choice can make this game better without making half of the playerbase enemies every time. It doesnt have to be easy mode for everyone so the survivalists get mad, and it doesnt have to be hardcore survival so the sandboxers are mad. Just give people both options when you already had the things in game before and you dont need any new code for them. And lastly, Im happy Im not you either (mostly because I really like being me), good thing were separate entities.
Charger265
Refugee
Here is the problem and you dont even know it.
You have an ego and you are fragile.
The first sign of constructive criticism of the game and its full defense mode.
The inability to see that its a cry for help to the dev team to sort out their issues.
I hope you can see that your actions are part of the problem... What makes it worse is your a mod on the official forum playing gate keeper to the community actively excluding feedback to the dev's about the game.
Most people avoid conflict and would walk away from this forum (no wonder why its so dead around here) But unlike them i have no problem in standing up against bullies and calling them out in public. Throwing your own arguments back at you and showing who is the real fool.
Please by all means keep doing what your doing and dig the hole much deeper. Good work,,,