Time to reflect

[Charger265]

This is not the main player base. This is the main whiner base.

Of course its not the main player base its just thousands of long term players with thousands of hours in the game. They are the main ones talking about...
No No thats not the core player base.... (BTW i feel the need to point out that's sarcasm just so your sure.)
I have to ask are you living under a rock?

I have never seen an ad for the game, even though I have been playing for several years. I have no idea what was promised, since I never paid attention to it. The game is still in development, which means that the promises may be fulfilled. Considering the money the game cost me, it is worth the money.

Ok So here you are throwing in your 2cents when your admitting you haven't followed anything to do with the game. Never gone out of your way to keep up with the patch notes, road maps, TFP's announcements and many more opportunities to be involved. You just play some...

So can i ask... If someone came in telling you something that you knew was not true. it was clearly made from an uneducated stand point and they admit they have no idea about the whole subject.
Would you value their opinion?

I know a lot of people in this world really love to blow their own trumpet but please... Think twice before you post.
Just because you dont get what the issue is. You may be part of the problem.

 

[Archael]

Crafting skills could be resolved, without exploits by making character exp and lvl up crafting by using corresponding items. Like using axe will increase axe (or tools) crafting skill.

 

[Suxar]

Ok So here you are throwing in your 2cents when your admitting you haven't followed anything to do with the game. Never gone out of your way to keep up with the patch notes, road maps, TFP's announcements and many more opportunities to be involved. You just play some...

Why do people buy games anyway? Probably to play?

Well, you could have read the plans about storms a year ago, so what? Until version 2.0 Exp came out, the essence of these storms was poorly understood. And so, the version came out, I played, looked, and realized that I was not happy. I was a little indignant about the storm duration being tied to the length of the day. The developers removed it. Now I sit and play on.

 

[Archael]

I hope The Fun Pimps (TFP) read threads like this to gain a deeper, clearer understanding of the issues that need addressing, cutting through the clutter of hype and echo chambers

topic like this happened in the past, and was ignored, and mass of yes men was always keeping tfp in their bubble, discrediting everything fans was saying. If they would only listen... Now it's the payoff...
And only thing fans wanted was to game being better, as perfect as possible.

 

[meganoth]

For a Moderator your contribution is very constructive and would appear to beneficial to the 7DTD community. Keep up the good work.

Correction: "For a forum user your contribution is as constructive as expected when someone comes around with "big" words" . I am a normal forum user, I am not an employee of TFP. That I remove spam and swear words from the forum on the side does not make me a spokesperson.

Assumptions are the mother of all F-ups
Yeah there are a lot of out of touch people and its clear you have jumped to conclusions as i made it very clear i am only one person. However as someone who helps with minor mods and runs servers for community groups for a very long time now. I hear the same issues being raised again and again. (Just a question... did you even watch the video?) It provides context to the core issue of the dev team. Not the game itself.
If you dig into the stats the majority of play time is not on vanilla.

Which stats are you refering to?

The core player base are now the ones speaking out the most as they have had enough. It is no longer the game that was advertised as, sold as, or promised to be.
Im happy for you that you like the game in the current state. But it would appear for such a big backlash its an issue that needs to be addressed or you likely wont have a game being updated in the future. The writing is on the wall.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game . That was promised and advertised. Do you find any line with LBD or glass jars? "sold as" is the only part of this sentence that seems to make any sense, since the game started as an incomplete game with many parts from the asset store to make it a playable game. Which did look almost like a pure sandbox game.
People buying the game at that time were expecting to play the same game forever like it was then, sure, because who reads the steam warning about Early Access? Right, nobody.

Also people can rightfully be unhappy about the scope of the game growing for almost the full time of its development. But on the other hand we got yearly content updates for free, so that is a good and a bad thing.

 

[Charger265]

topic like this happened in the past, and was ignored, and mass of yes men was always keeping tfp in their bubble, discrediting everything fans was saying. If they would only listen... Now it's the payoff...
And only thing fans wanted was to game being better, as perfect as possible.

You hit the nail on the head... We have to deal with this: "Im a fan and i will defend it no matter what.. I cant think critically"...LOL

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 4:37 AM

Why do people buy games anyway? Probably to play?

Well, you could have read the plans about storms a year ago, so what? Until version 2.0 Exp came out, the essence of these storms was poorly understood. And so, the version came out, I played, looked, and realized that I was not happy. I was a little indignant about the storm duration being tied to the length of the day. The developers removed it. Now I sit and play on.

Look im going to stop replying to you... I believe there suitable quote for moments like this
Mark Twain — 'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'

 

[MaxTunnerX]

The Town Hall that TFP's had last week was a good sign they might just listen to the players a little. But unfortunally it took a massive revult and the steam review system to prompt it. Further more they have only touched on the implementation of 2.0 with weather and badges but didnt address the core fundermentals which the game was originally buiilt and sold on.

This right here is exactly right. People around here showering TFP with thanks just because once in a century, after the whole game got review bombed for absolute trash they had attempted to get away with, they did a Q&A session where they adressed exactly 1 thing. While certainly a good thing to do, its far from ideal and they will have to repent much more than that if they want to earn my trust back. The only reason Im not being more dramatic and why Im not asking for a refund or something like that is that I can still play the game I actually bought via the steam betas menu. Thats literally the last lifeline TFP are hanging on for me and Im not going to pretend that everything is fine when its not.

 

[Charger265]

Correction: "For a forum user your contribution is as constructive as expected when someone comes around with "big" words" . I am a normal forum user, I am not an employee of TFP. That I remove spam and swear words from the forum on the side does not make me a spokesperson.

Ahhh you have described exactly what a community moderator is... Which has a higher privilege than a regular user and comes with more responsibility. I see we are off to a good start on the rebuttal

Which stats are you refering to?

Well you appear to be so informed about the 7DTD community but saying you know nothing about the stats on playtime for vanilla vs modded.
Thats quite interesting. Most of the fun in this world is being able to figure things out on your own.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/7daystodie/7-days-to-die-zombie-survival-game . That was promised and advertised. Do you find any line with LBD or glass jars? "sold as" is the only part of this sentence that seems to make any sense, since the game started as an incomplete game with many parts from the asset store to make it a playable game. Which did look almost like a pure sandbox game.
People buying the game at that time were expecting to play the same game forever like it was then, sure, because who reads the steam warning about Early Access? Right, nobody.

Also people can rightfully be unhappy about the scope of the game growing for almost the full time of its development. But on the other hand we got yearly content updates for free, so that is a good and a bad thing.

These simple minded arguments are nothing more than fanboy mentality, thats unable to critically think. "Quick lets do a quick google search and post the first relevant link that validate my point."

Granted you do have one good point.
Yes people can be rightfully happy or unhappy with the game. And granted i stand fully behind TFP's with their updates mostly on a yearly basis. Thats one of the reason i have supported the game for so long.
But its very clear you dont have the ability to admit that the wider community is currently very unhappy with the direction of the game.
If it was exactly as you say it is then there would have been no town meeting...

To Be Honest... Its community members and user like yourself that have openly squashed down constructive criticism over the years which has led to the massive blow out we see today. But somehow you are still in denial.
I think its time for some reflection... (I really hope the title pun is not lost on you)

 

[Suxar]

But its very clear you dont have the ability to admit that the wider community is currently very unhappy with the direction of the game.

Can you provide a link to a sociological study that will confirm that it is the community that is dissatisfied, and not a dozen forum users.

 

[Charger265]

Can you provide a link to a sociological study that will confirm that it is the community that is dissatisfied, and not a dozen forum users.

7 Days to Die on Steam

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!

store.steampowered.com

Steam :: 7 Days to Die :: 2.0 Town Hall

Hey Survivors! We've been listening to your feedback and wanted to chat about some of the changes we plan to make to address it. Tune in Friday July 25th at 9 PM CT as Richard and Joel Huenink discuss the upcoming changes. P.S. Tune in for another chance to unlock the purple pimp hat for 7 Days...

steamcommunity.com

"in denial"???

 

[meganoth]

Ahhh you have described exactly what a community moderator is... Which has a higher privilege than a regular user and comes with more responsibility. I see we are off to a good start on the rebuttal

I don't see any privileges that I am supposed to have. I have more work here and if I have to keep both moderator role and user role strictly separate. I can't just give you a warning if I don't like your argument for example. I also have to be exactly as careful as any user not to violate the rules myself (with maybe the only benefit that users may wrongly assume it is no use reporting my posts).

The only real difference is the wrong perception by users like yourself that I still represent TFP in some way.

Well you appear to be so informed about the 7DTD community but saying you know nothing about the stats on playtime for vanilla vs modded.
Thats quite interesting. Most of the fun in this world is being able to figure things out on your own.

That's a cheap cop-out, sorry.

These simple minded arguments are nothing more than fanboy mentality, thats unable to critically think. "Quick lets do a quick google search and post the first relevant link that validate my point."

I don't need to search it because I had bookmarked that link ages ago. Do you think you are the first who brings this argument with "We were promised..."? I hear that complaint dozens of times every year and when I post that link and ask for a source where that promise was made I get silence or insults back. Critical thinking doesn't mean to just say yes to your arguments if you can't show any evidence

Granted you do have one good point.
Yes people can be rightfully happy or unhappy with the game. And granted i stand fully behind TFP's with their updates mostly on a yearly basis. Thats one of the reason i have supported the game for so long.
But its very clear you dont have the ability to admit that the wider community is currently very unhappy with the direction of the game.
If it was exactly as you say it is then there would have been no town meeting...

Well, the "critical" part of the community has mostly congregated on steam etc. and behind some youtubers who act as influencers. Without anyone to point out logical holes in their arguments they have an easy job to make others feel the same.

Those forums look as unwelcome for satisfied players as this forum may look to "critical" players. Multiple posts disagreeing vehemently, often bordering on insults happen here as well as on steam. But it is hard to notice when you have the same opinion as the ones who disagree. But it happens everywhere. To someone who likes the current game generally posting something positive will feel like there are only "haters" there when in reality only a few step out of line and the number of posts disagreeing is a force on its own to make you feel unwelcome.

There are a lot of good reasons why the alpha this time was underwhelming. I have critizised the "badges" myself and as usual, the balance is always out of whack every fresh alpha. There are many console users unhappy about the game because they are not accustomed to having incomplete games that change regularily and invalidate their savegames. There are many users who have some feature of the game changed or removed that they particularily liked. And there are still lots of longtime players here who liked the game as it was when they started with the game because it was why they bought the game then (and a bit of nostalgia).

The community is not a coherent block of people who have the same opinion. For example the previous alpha did not have this backlash. So many players seem to be unhappy about exactly this alpha. They are not all clamoring for LBD and jars which vanished some alphas previously.

The town meeting? Yes, that was a publicity stunt to counter the publicity stunt of some influencers who, surprise, have some influence. Whether they are right or wrong they can hurt the business side of TFP, especially when they get the steam ratings to flip a category lower. This doesn't mean there aren't lots of unhappy players out there without being influenced. The EA process of 7D2D has collected them like a bulldozer and shoved them together on a pile that is growing for almost 10 years. Because nobody expects a game to change under him even when steam warns about this on all EA games.

To Be Honest... Its community members and user like yourself that have openly squashed down constructive criticism over the years which has led to the massive blow out we see today. But somehow you are still in denial.
I think its time for some reflection... (I really hope the title pun is not lost on you)

I really hope you do some reflection yourself, how people paint other people in some corner to easily discount their arguments.

 

[Charger265]

I don't need to search it because I had bookmarked that link ages ago. Do you think you are the first who brings this argument with "We were promised..."? I hear that complaint dozens of times every year and when I post that link and ask for a source where that promise was made I get silence or insults back. Critical thinking doesn't mean to just say yes to your arguments if you can't show any evidence

Ok For the most part im going to dismiss your previous comments as you have taken it off topic missed the point..

I must say this is very interesting...

Quote: "Do you think you are the first who brings this argument with "We were promised...""

Would it be a logical conclusion that if a large number of people all say the same thing and reference streams where they listen to the TFP's words and promises that this same complaint would be a recurring theme...

You do realize you are confirming my argument and showing your denial. Oh wait... you dont..

See this is exactly why the game is in this state... You have moderator fanboys on TFP forums who attempt to pester genuine discussions that could help improve the game with childish comments Like
Quote: "Ooooh, seems I am not part of the core community."
This is stopping any good feedback The Fun Pimps really need right now.

I really hope you do some reflection yourself, how people paint other people in some corner to easily discount their arguments.

Wow the hypocrisy
Do you remember your very first post

Quote: "Ooooh, seems I am not part of the core community."

No that isnt trying to easily discount their arguments. Is it now????

As i said in my opening statement
Quote: Note: Be respectful and constructive in your replies. If you show respect so will i.

As a moderator you should be much more respectful of user interactions and a guiding beacon for the forum.. This is clearly not the case.

 

[Suxar]

7 Days to Die on Steam

7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games. Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!

store.steampowered.com

"in denial"???

Out of 10, 1 is negative and 9 are positive.
That's what I wrote, that you don't represent the community. 9 out of 10 players like the game.

 

[Kyoji]

Can you provide a link to a sociological study that will confirm that it is the community that is dissatisfied, and not a dozen forum users.

To be fair if we are talking pre-town hall then it has weight to it since the people with the most information on it would be TFP which they decided was enough to hold a meeting and to make changes against their own timeline.

I don't agree with the doom and gloom people seem to have if jars and LBD don't return and think it's overblown but to suggest there wasn't mass dissatisfaction with the game after 2.0 is just coping.

This isn't directed to you specifically but there have been a few people in this very thread who have stated they wished for many of the changes in the town hall yet seem confused that there was a large contingent of people asking for such changes.

Now if this is post-town hall then I agree we don't have much information to determine whether a large amount of people are still dissatisfied.

 

[Charger265]

Out of 10, 1 is negative and 9 are positive.
That's what I wrote, that you don't represent the community. 9 out of 10 players like the game.
View attachment 35886

You do realize you are confirming my argument

Very first positive comment
How about the second and third positive comments
Oh wait they are positive so it doent matter right....
The script writes itself....


Only 1 out of the 10 was all positive..
9 out of 10 had negative comments about the game direction or the developers not listening

 

[Suxar]

Now if this is post-town hall then I agree we don't have much information to determine whether a large amount of people are still dissatisfied.

There have always been, are and will be dissatisfied people. But there are serious problems with calculating their percentage.

There is an active minority that sits on forums, makes videos, expresses its opinion. And in this minority, opinions are often opposite, which is generally clearly visible on this forum.

There is a passive majority that simply plays or does not play, but keeps its opinion to itself.

Of course, one can theoretically assume that the percentage of satisfied/dissatisfied coincides in the smaller and larger groups. However, here we have the same problem. The more popular the resource and the greater its audience reach, the more bots there are. No one will write bots for this forum, but for YouTube, Facebook or Reddit, thousands of them have been written.
Quote: "Imperva, which issues a “Bad Bot report,” found that almost 50% of internet traffic comes from non-human sources, with 20% of that being so-called “bad bots,” prone to a host of malicious activities."
Source: https://fortune.com/2025/07/22/is-artificial-intelligence-ai-bubble-bots-over-50-percent-internet/

 

[meganoth]

Ok For the most part im going to dismiss your previous comments as you have taken it off topic missed the point..

I must say this is very interesting...

Quote: "Do you think you are the first who brings this argument with "We were promised...""

Would it be a logical conclusion that if a large number of people all say the same thing and reference streams where they listen to the TFP's words and promises that this same complaint would be a recurring theme...

You do realize you are confirming my argument and showing your denial. Oh wait... you dont..

See this is exactly why the game is in this state... You have moderator fanboys on TFP forums who attempt to pester genuine discussions that could help improve the game with childish comments Like
Quote: "Ooooh, seems I am not part of the core community."
This is stopping any good feedback The Fun Pimps really need right now.




Wow the hypocrisy
Do you remember your very first post

Quote: "Ooooh, seems I am not part of the core community."

Yes, and I feel justified posting it when someone defines the "core community" arbitrarily to exclude me.

Now I know, you wanted to say that a lot of long-time players (how many really we can't really know) have not been happy with the game. But how you worded it is a slap in the face of people who are fans of the game just like the "core" you imagined and who are in general pleased by how the game turns out. Even though everyone has things he doesn't like, inevitably. 72D2 wants to appeal to so many different players, it can't fullfill everyones whishes.

No that isnt trying to easily discount their arguments. Is it now????

As i said in my opening statement
Quote: Note: Be respectful and constructive in your replies. If you show respect so will i.

As a moderator you should be much more respectful of user interactions and a guiding beacon for the forum.. This is clearly not the case.

What respect did you show all the players who like the game when you excluded them as non-core players?

 

[YourMirror]

Yes, and I feel justified posting it when someone defines the "core community" arbitrarily to exclude me.

Now I know, you wanted to say that a lot of long-time players (how many really we can't really know) have not been happy with the game. But how you worded it is a slap in the face of people who are fans of the game just like the "core" you imagined and who are in general pleased by how the game turns out. Even though everyone has things he doesn't like, inevitably. 72D2 wants to appeal to so many different players, it can't fullfill everyones whishes.



What respect did you show all the players who like the game when you excluded them as non-core players?

This. I am a long time veteran approaching 10000 hours of play. I still like the game. All of it? No. But with the recent townhall and explanation of fixes i am content with that. I dont miss LBD one second and jars are irrelevant to me. Now according to the ranter i am a fanboy and not critical. Just because my opinion differs. Well i will them them die on those hills. Because that is gonna happen. Nothing more and nothing less. For the record, they dont speak for me and still are just a loud minority.

 

[MaxTunnerX]

Can we finally aknowledge the fact that a lot of the forum and game drama is absolutely artifical, created by the stupid way of having 1 system in game for one alpha, and a completely different system in another? FFS lets start giving people some freedom and let them have fun with the game. Let people have jars if they want jars and let people who dont want jars not have jars. Stop restricting gameplay and forcing people to mod the game. My list of mods I need for the current version to "sort of enjoy" the game is insanely big and I kinda feel like I should be paid something for all this work I have to do for something I paid for. Something that was supposed to be "a game" and not a full-time programming project.

 

[Kyoji]

There have always been, are and will be dissatisfied people. But there are serious problems with calculating their percentage.

There is an active minority that sits on forums, makes videos, expresses its opinion. And in this minority, opinions are often opposite, which is generally clearly visible on this forum.

There is a passive majority that simply plays or does not play, but keeps its opinion to itself.

Of course, one can theoretically assume that the percentage of satisfied/dissatisfied coincides in the smaller and larger groups. However, here we have the same problem. The more popular the resource and the greater its audience reach, the more bots there are. No one will write bots for this forum, but for YouTube, Facebook or Reddit, thousands of them have been written.
Quote: "Imperva, which issues a “Bad Bot report,” found that almost 50% of internet traffic comes from non-human sources, with 20% of that being so-called “bad bots,” prone to a host of malicious activities."
Source: https://fortune.com/2025/07/22/is-artificial-intelligence-ai-bubble-bots-over-50-percent-internet/

Your claim is the inverse of what the other guys claim is. Neither of you have much proof other than generalistic guesses based on trends so to suggest it as fact makes me skeptical.

Again a lot of people defending Roland, Meganoth, Riamus all have posts suggesting fixes that appeared in the town hall. So to suggest everything or nothing is disengenuous.

You have to separate what the majority and minority wants as there were a lot of changes both potentially added and left out that people are talking about. So what changes specifically is the minority? The look of the new zombies? Smoothies? Progression? LBD?

I think there is a difference and once people stop painting in broad strokes we can agree on more and disagree on less.