"The PvP Update"

Another idea I thought about was making the effect of the LCB dynamic depending on where the base was placed vertically.

At a height of '0' the LCB could provide it's maximum set protection but as the player builds higher or lower the protection decreases.

So if a player builds at the sky the protection bonus is almost zero, same for bedrock.

This would encourage players to create more designs other than hiding everything underground or at the sky.

Where you place the LCB vertically shouldn't effect the decrease. For example, if you place the LCB at bedrock it will still only provide minimal defence at bedrock and the maxmimum at 0.

 
In regards to the LCB's, you can adjust how hardened they make things in the server options.

You could also mod the explosives to deal greater block damage.

I would also like to point out that it's "Nerd poling", not Nerf.

 
Unfortunately dude I don't have time to Debate with you all day over a topic which you haven't even explored as a player. Notice we are in the PVP section now... How you choose to build and design in PVE I have no interest :-) If you want to discuss further I'll be more than happy to once you've done some PVP. With that said, you are right I'll explain the points I've raised and why they are a problem.

Hatch Elevator Exploit

I've copied my text from the A17 thread for you Stallionsden because you keep coming back with crap that I've already addressed. Raiding times are massively increased because of this exploit. There is currently no counter measure and in PVP every defence or offense needs a countermeasure or it becomes imbalanced.

Teleporting instantly through solid steel from one location to another causes major problems when it comes to balancing raiding. It's a big problem in multiplayer because players create 'safe spaces' that are inaccessible. It's a raid breaker. I expect it is also an issue in PVE because players can teleport themselves instantly to safety rather than fight hordes.

It's a cheap tactic to get from one place to another instantly. No exploit in the game is a good idea or smart. Players should be encouraged to design their bases well using the traps, tools and turrets available because right now they don't need to use any of those things with the hatch elevator making all of their loot inaccessible.

Let me lay out a stereotypical scenario for how this goes in a PVP environment just in case there are people who are inexperienced.

A player builds a tower base, surrounds it with a 5 block wide pit to bedrock. They've got multiple LCBs hidden in their tower at different locations providing only 16x protection. The LCB covers 40x40 which is standard now since electricity was brought in.

Lets say they build their entrance level with the ground that's at around +1 and you manage to find a way in (For the sake of this conversation this part can be easy when usually it's not). Bare in mind this tower goes to the maximum height of the map. I can't remember what this is... maybe +160 blocks. This means there is no jumping across.

When you get in all you find is a hollow space except for a hatch elevator in the centre that goes up 60+ blocks to the room in the sky. The only way up is to knock out the wall blocks and make stairs out of them. If every block takes you 10-15 minutes to knock out because they are solid steel you will be there all night and day doing it. @Stallionsden do you get from this alone why this is a huge problem? If raiding goes on for an entire day then you are basically telling the vast majority of the community that they can't do it and putting them at a huge disadvantage... and anyone who even has an entire day to do it, are they going to want to stare at steel / concrete for hours and hours listening to an auger for a bit of loot? Do you still think its fun? smart?

This is a fairly common approach to base design in PVP because it is enabled by exploits. As ever player starts to do this all that happens is players stop playing for two reasons;

- Raiding is not practical, worthwhile or fun

- Players get bored because they create an inaccessible safe space where there are no threats for them

Raiding in PVP is a fundamental part of the game. If you take that out then there is only PVE and the PVE on large pop servers is broken to hell. Naturally players will go for the easy safety option because that's the survival part of the game kicking in. Just like players in PVE hide underground at bedrock to avoid any threats. If that was me I'd just go play creative mode. This isn't 7 Days to hide....

I'm not saying I want raiding to be easy, I'm saying players should be rewarded for base designs that are actual good and NOT using exploits.

I appreciate that PVP isn't on the Fun Pimps priority list, but some small changes like eliminating the hatch elevator glitch would certainly help in both PVE and PVP environments.

One solution would be to make the hatch block take up 2 blocks (one block higher than it currently is). This would stop players building them directly on top of one another. The other solution would be to add a lock pick to get access to the bottom hatch. I could live with it if that was a viable option.

I'm all for an actual elevator but the devs should keep locks off it unless they intend on adding a lock picking tool because it will just lead to the same issues in PVP. It could still lead to the same issues in PVE though where players flee horde night to their sky space as well.

Nerf Polling / Ladders

A little bit trickier to deal with but if you take away the hatch elevator system we are left with nerf polling and destroying ladders instead creating the same issue. Somebody suggested on a different topic about player threats that when a player knocks out a ladder all of the other ladders break. This could be one solution. Nerf polling could also be an option that can be switched on or off in the game menu. True Survival did it and it played just fine :-)

Hopefully that clears everything up for you Stallionsden and go play some PVP then come back to the PVP thread to discuss :-)
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Actually this is the pumps dream and "the PvP update" lol. No rules stating I can't have a say in any thread. Whether I play PvP. Pve upside down twister or what. I can visit any thread and add my thoughts just like you are.

 
Land claim modifier so online works independently from the offline modifier.

Only thing really preventing people from PvP in the years I have is they don't like being raided while offline. Takes too much time to set up bases and gather vast resources.

 
So long as I can opt out or not join PVP servers im fine with that. Too many games are going PVP but completely ignore security and they destroy the game with hacks. I personally will never play 7 days in a pvp environment, The gamers that enjoy that type of gameplay are malicious little egomaniacs id sooner punch in the mouth than speak to...Surviving as it is is challenge enough, I dont need to login and find my base looted offline by some kid too scared to face me online, nor suffer constant attack by griefers..Pass Pimps...

 
I have 6000+ hours in this game. In the last 3 years it has almost all been PvP. One of the biggest problems I have is when i get killed and lose all the armor mods and weapons I spent 100+ hours gathering. When I go out to try and find more it is extremly difficult going up against the zombies at my game stage, when my gear now does not match my gamestage. Maybe there would be a way for the game stage to be dropped when you are not well equipped?

 
The problem with catalysts take on PvP is that it should take forever to raid a base like the one he is mentioning, or a large group half a day. Do you realize how long it took that guy to buiild that base? It should take 5 times longer to raid a base as it takes to build it, should be a good standard.

 
Current state of PvP, just an opinion.

I play almost exclusively PvP (2k hours), and 7D2D has a really good foundation to be a GREAT PvP experience if TFP would give it some tweaks.  I understand they don't want to focus on it, but they are missing out on what could be one of the better ones out there with some love.  Currently, just to help with all the bugs, exploits and imbalances, the moderator has to add an unrealistic number of mods and tweaks to get it even semi-fair for all involved.  Servers are plagued with hackers, dupers, glitchers and exploiters.  I encourage those who also play PvP to help list out some of the exploits they know so we can try and get them in the hands of TFP.  A lot of folks don't want to reveal the ones they use because they want to keep using them, but I know a large number of people who quit playing simply because they want to play the game fairly, without exploiters and bugs being the primary reason they lose everything they worked for in-game.

Here are just a few issues:

1. GROUND GLITCH!

This is the one that really makes a huge difference.  Players can dig in a certain way so that their body is partially buried and they can look at your entire base underground, knowing right where to dig.  There are ways to glitch your vehicles into the ground and drive through the terrain, even flying your gyrocopter around underground revealing everyone's base on the entire server.  There are also ways to use this to instantly elevator yourself from bedrock to the surface. And the WORST part?  You can shoot players through the ground using these same techniques.

2.  Render glitch

Players can stand a certain distance away from structures or terrain and see right through your walls, revealing your crafting stations and loot boxes...and can also shoot you through your walls.

3. Audio

Certain weapons and tools have an inordinately large sound radius.  Wrenches at one point had like a 150m radius, don't know if that's fixed yet.  Sledges used to have the same problem but got fixed in A18.  Blunderbus sounds like a bomb going off at 50m.  I realize it's a loud weapon, but the volume is the same at a large distance.  Not only that, but you can't tell the direction it comes from because the directional part of the audio has not been put in.  Silencers also do not really reduce the audio distance, and the sound is not directional, so you hear the shot but can't tell what direction it's coming from.  Another one is sprinting.  You can be at bedrock and hear someone run on the ground above you many blocks away as if they were right next to you.  Also, when you run low on stamina and start breathing heavily, that sound is also not adjusted for distance and sounds like someone running out of breath right next to you, at many many blocks away.

4.  Lag swich

Folks can exploit lag to make it so your character appears (to them but not to you) to run in place or stand still while they shoot you.  I'm not a programmer but have heard people mention that it's because there are some client side issues that allow this.

5. Duping

Hard to pin this one down since it seems like every Alpha a new way is discovered to do this.  Vehicle duping is a big one and our server has to remove vehicle inventory and player vending machines (I think other objects also) to eliminate some of these.

6. Consumables

Mega Crush, Steroids, the candies...all these have to be nerfed to make it reasonable.  Easily done with mods, but a PvP server host has to add it to his growing list of mods to make it playable.  High run speed makes the player visually hop around the map making it super easy to appear out of nowhere and kill you.

7. Brightness and video

So just assume all the PvPers out there are turning their brightness all the way up, rolling back all the tree and grass render distances, and changing their settings to reveal as many other players as possible, so you can no longer hang back and hide behind trees and bushes.

All in all, the server I play on has a VERY large list of mods just to make it fair.  Not to increase QoL or add cool features to the game, but just to make it playable as a PvP game.  And this doesn't even fix the big issues, just makes it tolerable-ish.

TL;DR

Needs attention:

Terrain glitching

Render glitching

Audio

Lag

Duping

Consumables (related to lag)

Brightness/video

Any other PvPers out there please share what you know.  I know there are many other ones out there players would rather not have revealed, but those of us who just want to play a good game and get this fixed should say so.

 
JMBogstad said:
The problem with catalysts take on PvP is that it should take forever to raid a base like the one he is mentioning, or a large group half a day. Do you realize how long it took that guy to buiild that base? It should take 5 times longer to raid a base as it takes to build it, should be a good standard.
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Sorry I'm a bit late responding to this. I took a break for A17/A18.

My counter argument for this would be that when a base gets raided, the hard work of the base owner does not get eliminated. Players only destroy blocks necessary to get to the loot and repairs can be made fairly quickly. Getting raided and raiding is part of PVP, suck it up and get back in the fight.

Raids should not take a day or even half a day. Staring at blocks with an auger for hours isn't fun game play. I've yet to test out PVP since A16 so all the new explosives might have made it better.

 
Looking for some help on a PVP we're trying to do. 

I've only been playing for a few months, and my friends are going to do a Multiplayer Manhunt. There will be 3-4 teams of 3 players each, and they will play survival for two horde nights. On day 15, the teams will have to hunt each other down and eliminate the competition. 

My question is this, is there a way to spawn the players on each team together, but spawn them on different points on the map? 

Thank in advance for any help on this.

 
gregoreo said:
Looking for some help on a PVP we're trying to do. 

I've only been playing for a few months, and my friends are going to do a Multiplayer Manhunt. There will be 3-4 teams of 3 players each, and they will play survival for two horde nights. On day 15, the teams will have to hunt each other down and eliminate the competition. 

My question is this, is there a way to spawn the players on each team together, but spawn them on different points on the map? 

Thank in advance for any help on this.
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What I did when we ran a similar challenge, was this...

  1. Start the server unlisted.
  2. Log my character into the server.
  3. Move character to spawn location.
  4. Log out.
  5. Shut the server down.
  6. Rename files for my character from my Steam ID to other players Steam ID.
  7. Start Server.
  8. Repeat process for next character.
Then when you're done, you can open the server up and have everyone spawn into the locations you want them to be at, with the gear you want them to start with.

 
PVP servers need some love with technical fixes (terrain glitch prevention, cheat prevention, dupe prevention, better admin tools, and DDOS protection).  

Looking through the server list, and it appears these servers are really dead now.   Played on a couple of the remaining ones, and it's clear they are new server admins that don't yet know how to balance the servers nor prevent cheating/exploiting.   Been around since A9, and this is the deepest in the ditch that this segment of the playerbase has ever been. 

 
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Poojam said:
PVP servers need some love with technical fixes (terrain glitch prevention, cheat prevention, dupe prevention, better admin tools, and DDOS protection).  

Looking through the server list, and it appears these servers are really dead now.   Played on a couple of the remaining ones, and it's clear they are new server admins that don't yet know how to balance the servers nor prevent cheating/exploiting.   Been around since A9, and this is the deepest in the ditch that this segment of the playerbase has ever been. 
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It's not just the cheating/exploiting either. The community and game has changed. PVP just doesn't feel as rewarding now. Progression is so streamlined that the nuance it brought has been neutered.

 
Most of my almost 2000 hours of 7dtd were playing PVP (I always played with my brothers in a local server, so we only played when both of us were avaliable to play)

The main issues that bothered me:

- render distance : a player can be seen only 90 meters away, although the vehicle render distance can overlap 1km
- unrealistic sound system: a gun shot cannot be heard up to 250m away. 

- unbalanced damage against humans: not rarely a player can be killed with a single bullet, no matter how strong his armor be.

Other adjustments like a map with a single trader, itens prices, fuel consumption, XP earned; I think XML/mods provides the enough to set. 

 
In 7DTD, PvP shouldn't be a focus due to the prevalence of toxic behavior among players. Instead, resources and efforts should be directed towards enhancing the gameplay experience through the expansion of points of interest (POIs), introducing more diverse zombies, and implementing advanced AI for enhanced cooperative play.

Consider the model of Helldivers 2, which prioritizes cooperative gameplay without PvP elements, focusing solely on shooting mechanics and completing missions.
In 7DTD, the combination of building, crafting, survival mechanics, and intelligent zombie (to do) encounters offers a thrilling adventure experience, far more engaging than the mindless competition of PvP.

 
The biggest problem for players when they try pvp for the first time in 7d2d is they are generally way to attached to their stuff and seriously over connected to what they have accumulated:

When you play pvp expect to lose stuff, Build more than one base in case your main stash gets raided, Never assume you built or hid something so perfect no one is going to find it and by all means expect to die and get raided its pvp.

 
I just hope that whatever "balance changes" are being made will only be in effect when generating a world in PVP mode & not a permanent thing for non-pvp worlds to just have to accept & deal with. I can see changes upsetting people & more threads of change it back & forth so it's best that all these changes are only in one mode & not affecting the entire game itself. This way pvp people can be happy the way they want it & non pvpers can be happy the way they want it!

But in my opinion There shouldn't be any development towards pvp or balance changes for it yet because this game is no where near complete & needs more content & fixes to it's current issues before we should even be thinking about what in opinion is fair.

 
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Roland said:
Eventually, The Fun Pimps will turn their attention to PvP. Since the beginning of this game's development the main focus of balance and features has been to make it a great single player or multiplayer cooperative experience. Early on before experience and quality was introduced the game could more easily be played either competitively or cooperatively. However, as development has progressed more and more the PvP players have suffered from design choices that seriously unbalance the PvP experience.

Madmole has said that there will be a separate mode for the game that will be dedicated to PvP play. The purpose of this thread is for people who enjoy and want the game to be more attuned to the PvP philosophy to weigh in on what changes would need to be made to the current game in order to make it better for PvP.

Please no arguments or discussions on PvE vs PvP or whether the game should be designed for PvP. Please don't invite people to "go play Rust or Counterstrike". Three facts I think we can all agree upon:

1) The game in its current state doesn't work well at all for PvP

2) The game has great potential to have a robust and excellent PvP mode

3) The devs have said that creating a PvP mode is planned

So lets start from this basis and not argue about the merits of PvP in this thread.

Items for discussion that I can think of are as follows (feel free to add new items that I did not consider)

1) Claim Block functionality

2) Player Progression and Experience

3) Skills and Perks

4) Armor and Weapons

5) Zombies

6) Loot Tables

7) Loot Quality

8) Airdrops

9) Scoreboards and Stats

10) Building and Demolition

11) Survival Elements

12) Game Types

13) Sound

14) Spawning
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decade later we still waiting?
 
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