"The PvP Update"

As long as our magical and paranormal powered backpack can carry a volume of material allowing us to carry and build the Eiffel tower, we will be forced to create an item with magical and paranormal powers, called the 'Claim'

Then, this claim will create ridiculous situations, with players structures impossible to assault, to destroy, and completely unbalanced PVP.

To rebalance all that :

1- Start by adding a weight limit and a volume limit to the backpack carrying capacity. (volume of 1x1x1 Max)

2- Add a sunk mechanism if the backpack player is heavy.

3- Now, a player can't swim across a douve with building supply.

4- To fill a douve, a player must dig a cube of 1x1x1, and carry it to the douve, 1 by 1.

5- Add a falling mechanism to unfixed structure, turn structure impossible to fix on concrete, then people cant empile frame to climb.

6- Now, people have to fill the douve block after block, then they have to build a siege ramp block after block.

7- You can remove the claim, he's now useless.

 
Pimps, great alpha!! Do you think for 16 stable you can please fix the bug where you can peek through the ground and see other player bases? I know this isn't the PVP update but it would benefit all players! Also I look forward to all the AI and challenge improvements for the next alpha! Thanks!

cant wait for some PVP Love for this game <3

 
The only thing 15A was needed for PVP was fixed night vision, and now we have it, and now is very comfortable to play without maxed brightness. About rest ...

1)Complaining about base destroying:

- Dont build base on PVP server, really, all you need is to hide somewhere workbench, forge, and chest. Its PVP so play ninja-style. You not need building materials, and building tools crafting, all you need you'll get from loot. Build fake base somewhere if you cant play without building, and use it as bait

- Or play on servers where base destroying (not raiding) is forbidden

- Or play on servers with indestructable claims and forbidden raiding

- Or play on zoned PVP/PVE servers

- And of course check if this server with active admins at least.

P.S. If you play on no rules server, it means you play for kill/steal/destroy, so be ready to be killed/stealed/destroyed

2) Weapons:

- Its all about server, good servers usually have modded weapons, like silenced and scoped versions.

- also there are servers with greatly increased weapon drop rate and quality

 
There is no reason to make a visible base, because once a base is found, it is dead.

1. For underground bases people should be given an ability to limit the vertical dimension of the claim volume. So players could not hear the "claim sound" and see buffed voxels by hitting ground and trees above.

2. To make it difficult to find where the claim block is people should be able to decreas the claim dimensions and make, say, 5x6 inctead of 7x7.

3. Attacker respawns should be balanced. It is now easy to just drop a bag and deplete enemy defences ammo / power. People should be allowed one infinite fast respawn at their main base, and their spawning on "raid bedrolls" should become much slower if they get killed near someone's base. Like, + 30 seconds, +1 minute, + 3 minutes, +5 minutes.

4. It is possible to just lure a horde of zombies and let them make a hole into an enemy base. This should not work against offline protection.

 
how viable is it to simply remove skills from pvp servers?

The old alpha 12 truly random loot, no "weapon" or "armor" skills.

This means that all weapons will be able to be levelled to 600, and all armor, BUT finding blue and purple weapons (including guns) is perfectly likely to happen as well. There will still be a "skill" curve, and established players will be stronger, but not nearly as bad as a new player with a QL 130 pistol or bow vs. a player with 100 armor skill, 600 iron armor, and purple automatic weapons with 100 skill...heck...remove the quality difference and skill 0 vs. skill 100 makes the game unplayable in pvp....you'll never win...EVER. Instead, you'll have to grind those skills up for ages on a server where that godlike killer will gladly kill you any chance he gets.

Finite worlds. Log in to a RG pvp server and run 10 km NNW and the odds you'll ever run into any player is miniscule. If you limit the world size to something that FORCES players together, you'll get a much more intense game, and pvp will actually HAPPEN. This comes with the flip side of a small world having finite loot locations, and the top player on the server is well served to destroy bookcases, safes, gunstore crates, etc after he's looted them....this will also eventually restrict new players to the realm of "can't compete" - block protected POIs...some of them...might be necessary...it encourages pvp at those areas and allows players access to loot to feel competitive. Along with that, you'd need loot that respawns in containers regardless of the last time the container was checked or walked near...since those (bookstores, shotgun messiahs, etc.) would be high traffic areas.

Invincible bases offline would need serious considerations, especially if bases took a while to break in. If i was going to lose my base, i might just log out. Even if you plan for that and give a 5-10 minute grace period where the base is still hittable, an opponent might not actually be able to sufficiently break in within that time. Heck, some of these hardcore pvpers probably have bases that take an hour or more to break into.

 
how viable is it to simply remove skills from pvp servers?This means that all weapons will be able to be levelled to 600, and all armor, BUT finding blue and purple weapons (including guns) is perfectly likely to happen as well. There will still be a "skill" curve, and established players will be stronger, but not nearly as bad as a new player with a QL 130 pistol or bow vs. a player with 100 armor skill, 600 iron armor, and purple automatic weapons with 100 skill...heck...remove the quality difference and skill 0 vs. skill 100 makes the game unplayable in pvp....you'll never win...EVER. Instead, you'll have to grind those skills up for ages on a server where that godlike killer will gladly kill you any chance he gets.
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Yellow hunting rifle with 5 only points in "Rifles" skill one shot me in full 500-600 military armor with 120HP. Skills and quality is nothing for rifles type.

 
I guess I should chime in here at some point.

PVP is an interesting beast. The reasons for a player enjoying PVP are broader than PVE players. They are adding an entirely new enemy to their strategies and new dynamics for failure.

With that in mind, PVP should be nothing like PVE. The current stats, boosts, perks, health on zombies, they are all oriented towards the PVE end of the game.

I am a little surprised the perks and skill are done as they are in general. I would like to see a skill go to 100 such as pistols but at a much slower rate and only from use. You should not be able to put points into certain skills, you have to achieve them. Most skills would be better if discovered through use or reading schematics and books. Your character should learn the perk or skill, not buy it with points. After traveling certain distances, you get a small reduction in the chance to break legs from fall damage. Every 1000km it reduces chances by 1% up to 15%.

The entire perk/skill system needs to be looked at. It is not that PVP needs its own mode, it is that the PVE is a biased system not made for anything BUT PVE.

Back to the example of pistol skill. Have a pistol be a generic pistol, shots do 12-15 damage or whatever you find appropriate but someone with a higher skill in pistols gets reduced reload time or better accuracy, but slight. Up to 15% difference. The same pistol used by another player with lower pistol skill still does the base damage but none of the bonus as the skills of handling pistols have not improved yet. Adding direct damage is the issue. You have a pistol do 15 damage and a sniper rifle does over 70. Then if you take into account the head shot bonus, it gets a little absurd. Even if both players were level 1, the range in damage of the high end sniper vs low end pistol is staggering. This is where you can see it was setup for PVE but even then the range is far too big.

Another example of a skill/perk with a different system is this. Healing from med kits should be defined by your medicine skill up to 100. The higher your skill, the more it heals. The same kit used by a player not leveled up would only heal a base amount of 25. Add a cooking skill that allows you to craft the base item but with stat boosts based on a skill out of 100. If someone else grabbed that food after being cooked, it would still have that boost when used.

Base items could also be crated with better base stats depending on the crafting level but it should be small. A top level player vs a low level should only see a spread of 20-30% at max between effectiveness of the same actions.

You get the reward of having a better character and working towards something but not over powering other players to the point they can not do anything to you. It keeps everyone feeling a very real danger.

With that in mind, the numbers used can not just be out of thin air. Working on some balances on paper are necessary. Take into consideration materials used in recipes and the time to acquire some mats. I would like to see the number of completed guns go down and only be found in a gun safe. Maybe a pistol in a toilet but lower chances please. Parts are more interesting as you have to collect them and assemble. It leaves the possibility of finding a low end part and high end part to get a mish mash in between BUT this comes in to the entire balance problem. Look at the range of durability or damage on some items currently and compare them across the board.

Upon comparison you will see there is no base ground that everything works around. Blocks that break down in tiers are insanely high in hit points when you work out the totals. This requires tools to have excessively large values and that inflates the difference between high and low end as you are using modifiers that are also too high on the perks.

Many players work out the best set of skills and fastest route to go so as to get ahead of others and hopefully out pace them. This is a good strategy but as stated, it inflates as it goes further. If a high end player was 30% stronger in their base abilities, a low level player has a chance. What you need is a configurable option to what that gap range is. Is the low end to high end 30% or 70% better. When you have that base line for the base game, it can be applied to all items and skills as a whole which would allow skills to go through usage in a fluid manner versus unlocking them with points. A more interesting path would be to force players to choose between specific skills at certain stages.

Level 50 gives you the option of unlocking two new skills. Whatever you want and they are all out of 100 and defined by usage, not pts put into them. you can still have some require others just as it is but getting rid of a set amount of points and instead rewarding an amount of skills or perks makes more sense to me for PVP, but really PVE as well.

 
I would like to see the EAC system implement silent screenshots of the players screens and then sent to the server hosts. EAC has this capacity so it would be a great step into long term cheat prevention. With so many players still cheating and finding exploits, it can be a great tool for PVP when trying to catch someone.

 
I would like to see the EAC system implement silent screenshots of the players screens and then sent to the server hosts. EAC has this capacity so it would be a great step into long term cheat prevention. With so many players still cheating and finding exploits, it can be a great tool for PVP when trying to catch someone.
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yes finding ure base gone in 1 out is just bad the EAC must be upgraded

 
After 1000 hours in game playing on a PVP server I have to say one of my biggest pains is raiding.

With the current raiding system the game forces you to use primarily augers to break into another players base. The problem with this is that the LCB introduces potentially massive amounts of defence to the player bases. A well designed base can take hours to raid. So far I've spent 8 hours in alpha 16 raiding a single base. This is just silly and boring as hell to sit in front of concrete / steel blocks for hours simply holding your left mouse button. Why not reduce the damage multiplier you say? Because the argument on the other side is that we have to give the base owner a chance which i totally agree on.

Why not introduce additional methods for raiding?

- Explosive charges

What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-15 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

- Raiding rocket ammunition

Name says it all - rockets that deal a lot of block damage to player made blocks. They could also take ages to craft and maybe are super rare and expensive at traders behind secret stash 3.

Rather than spending ages staring at concrete blocks with the auger, if we could at least go and enjoy the game instead searching for raiding materials it would make it far less boring.

Also give admins the ability to control the LCB vertical effects as well as horizontal.

 
Oh yeah PVP, this is going to really reel in all those ARK/Rust/Survarium/PUBG/Miscreated/H1Z1/DayZ/Hurtworld/The Culling players who are just looking for a good PVP survival game because those are rare.

 
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They shouldnt remove almost anything they just need to tweak some things out , and add a bit more of other things and will be perfect. nobody wants another pvp game like the ones there are allready there. we want the same feel leveling grinding etc but with pvp

 
After 1000 hours in game playing on a PVP server I have to say one of my biggest pains is raiding.
With the current raiding system the game forces you to use primarily augers to break into another players base. The problem with this is that the LCB introduces potentially massive amounts of defence to the player bases. A well designed base can take hours to raid. So far I've spent 8 hours in alpha 16 raiding a single base. This is just silly and boring as hell to sit in front of concrete / steel blocks for hours simply holding your left mouse button. Why not reduce the damage multiplier you say? Because the argument on the other side is that we have to give the base owner a chance which i totally agree on.

Why not introduce additional methods for raiding?

- Explosive charges

What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-15 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

- Raiding rocket ammunition

Name says it all - rockets that deal a lot of block damage to player made blocks. They could also take ages to craft and maybe are super rare and expensive at traders behind secret stash 3.

Rather than spending ages staring at concrete blocks with the auger, if we could at least go and enjoy the game instead searching for raiding materials it would make it far less boring.

Also give admins the ability to control the LCB vertical effects as well as horizontal.
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Why not just disable LCBs on the server? Sounds like that is what is making it boring.

 
Why not just disable LCBs on the server? Sounds like that is what is making it boring.
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I think the point he is making is if you just disable LCBs it is way too easy to raid, so you need something that lets raiding still be difficult but take less time.

 
Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but I wanted to comment on something OnlyMeiya brought up in another thread.

Did a lot of testing last night and it seems that the sniper has become one of the most under-performing gun now to the point that high end pvp is now completely pointless with even a 600 sniper with max skills.
Please consider returning it to its rightful places because this eliminates so much strategy from pvp in the end game I don't want every encounter to now have to be forced to be up close. many players are extremely cunning with sniping when you mix it with a world that is manipulated by the player to suit the snipers needs.

Player was geared everything 600 BIS with max cloth/armor skill at 100.

I was using 600 sniper with max BTLD and 100 rifle skills.

From headshots only doing 50 damage to several body shots (entire clips) not getting top end players even below 50% hp the sniper has definitely been showing signs that it is under performing.

Shotgun up close with shells deals impressive damage again.

Slugs nearly kill in 1-2 shots, which is great!

Even magnum now out-performs the sniper!

When the shotgun was over-nerfed we had another option of the AK, which was amazing at it really, right now we currently have no long range fall back option.

The sniper is one of the rarer types of guns, it doesn't need to be sitting at the bottom of the chain.

Or give us an even rarer gun .50 cal option or something. I wouldn't mind that, with anti armor piercing rounds, sniper should be the most feared gun to be against in the hands of the right players, not a toy that is mocked for how little the damage its doing.
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TL;DR: with the sniper rifle nerfed, PvP players don't have a good option for a long-range weapon.

Since PvP isn't my thing in this game (definitely in other games, though), I'm taking this assessment at face value. One idea raised, which I think is a good one, was that the armor penetration of weapons could scale with your skill level, which wouldn't affect combat with zombies and animals.

But to my mind, the ideal vehicle for a long-range PvP-tuned weapon is the hunting rifle. In my experience, the hunting rifle is just a weapon you use until you have a sniper rifle. But the two could be more useful in different situations.

The hunting rifle's entity damage with maximum skills could be raised very high without affecting PvE very much. It has a long delay between shots, there are a lot more zombies than other players in a given encounter, and most zombies don't take a lot of damage relative to a high-level armored player based on OnlyMeiya's reporting.

These three stats combined mean a hunting rifle with high damage is literally overkill in most PvE situations. If the sniper rifle were given similarly high damage, though, it would be too superior overall thanks to its 5-round clip.

Now we currently have some real bullet sponge zombies, like irradiated cops, which could be easier kills with a souped-up hunting rifle. But that may not be a bad thing, since again the hunting rifle has its limitations when faced with a large number of targets at once.

 
Why not just disable LCBs on the server? Sounds like that is what is making it boring.
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The problem is if you take away the LCB then it makes raiding way too easy. Also you open up to all kinds of trolling. Peoples bases will get dropped and painted pink inside and out :-D

I think the LCB is a great thing. We just need some additional raiding tools to make it more fun.

Additionally to the raiding rocket ammunition and explosive charges lock picks would be a great idea. Maybe they take a long time (2-3 minutes) with a chance of breaking / failing. They could be quite hard to get.

Despite the lack of optimisation for large scale PVP, 7 Days is very close to been one of the best PVP base building survival games out there. A few extra raiding tools and some of the glitches / exploits eliminated would have a huge impact.

Hatch elevators / Nerf polling / breaking out the bottom ladders would have to go too. Instead of using glitches players need to be rewarded for designing their bases well with traps and turrets and fake rooms.

 
Hatch elevators / Nerf polling / breaking out the bottom ladders would have to go too. Instead of using glitches players need to be rewarded for designing their bases well with traps and turrets and fake rooms.
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LMAO now you want to take out the ability to not place the bottom rung of a ladder lol. how do you think that will be implemented in a game that allows freedom of build lol....

Hatch disagreement i wont repeat here lol as your well aware it isnt and just lazyness or being outsmarted.....

nerf polling do explain this... so i can better understand where you are coming from with nerf polling.

the player is being well rewarded for their base design because you cant think of a way in or up lol...

 
LMAO now you want to take out the ability to not place the bottom rung of a ladder lol. how do you think that will be implemented in a game that allows freedom of build lol....
Hatch disagreement i wont repeat here lol as your well aware it isnt and just lazyness or being outsmarted.....

nerf polling do explain this... so i can better understand where you are coming from with nerf polling.

the player is being well rewarded for their base design because you cant think of a way in or up lol...
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Unfortunately dude I don't have time to Debate with you all day over a topic which you haven't even explored as a player. Notice we are in the PVP section now... How you choose to build and design in PVE I have no interest :-) If you want to discuss further I'll be more than happy to once you've done some PVP. With that said, you are right I'll explain the points I've raised and why they are a problem.

Hatch Elevator Exploit

I've copied my text from the A17 thread for you Stallionsden because you keep coming back with crap that I've already addressed. Raiding times are massively increased because of this exploit. There is currently no counter measure and in PVP every defence or offense needs a countermeasure or it becomes imbalanced.

Teleporting instantly through solid steel from one location to another causes major problems when it comes to balancing raiding. It's a big problem in multiplayer because players create 'safe spaces' that are inaccessible. It's a raid breaker. I expect it is also an issue in PVE because players can teleport themselves instantly to safety rather than fight hordes.

It's a cheap tactic to get from one place to another instantly. No exploit in the game is a good idea or smart. Players should be encouraged to design their bases well using the traps, tools and turrets available because right now they don't need to use any of those things with the hatch elevator making all of their loot inaccessible.

Let me lay out a stereotypical scenario for how this goes in a PVP environment just in case there are people who are inexperienced.

A player builds a tower base, surrounds it with a 5 block wide pit to bedrock. They've got multiple LCBs hidden in their tower at different locations providing only 16x protection. The LCB covers 40x40 which is standard now since electricity was brought in.

Lets say they build their entrance level with the ground that's at around +1 and you manage to find a way in (For the sake of this conversation this part can be easy when usually it's not). Bare in mind this tower goes to the maximum height of the map. I can't remember what this is... maybe +160 blocks. This means there is no jumping across.

When you get in all you find is a hollow space except for a hatch elevator in the centre that goes up 60+ blocks to the room in the sky. The only way up is to knock out the wall blocks and make stairs out of them. If every block takes you 10-15 minutes to knock out because they are solid steel you will be there all night and day doing it. @Stallionsden do you get from this alone why this is a huge problem? If raiding goes on for an entire day then you are basically telling the vast majority of the community that they can't do it and putting them at a huge disadvantage... and anyone who even has an entire day to do it, are they going to want to stare at steel / concrete for hours and hours listening to an auger for a bit of loot? Do you still think its fun? smart?

This is a fairly common approach to base design in PVP because it is enabled by exploits. As ever player starts to do this all that happens is players stop playing for two reasons;

- Raiding is not practical, worthwhile or fun

- Players get bored because they create an inaccessible safe space where there are no threats for them

Raiding in PVP is a fundamental part of the game. If you take that out then there is only PVE and the PVE on large pop servers is broken to hell. Naturally players will go for the easy safety option because that's the survival part of the game kicking in. Just like players in PVE hide underground at bedrock to avoid any threats. If that was me I'd just go play creative mode. This isn't 7 Days to hide....

I'm not saying I want raiding to be easy, I'm saying players should be rewarded for base designs that are actual good and NOT using exploits.

I appreciate that PVP isn't on the Fun Pimps priority list, but some small changes like eliminating the hatch elevator glitch would certainly help in both PVE and PVP environments.

One solution would be to make the hatch block take up 2 blocks (one block higher than it currently is). This would stop players building them directly on top of one another. The other solution would be to add a lock pick to get access to the bottom hatch. I could live with it if that was a viable option.

I'm all for an actual elevator but the devs should keep locks off it unless they intend on adding a lock picking tool because it will just lead to the same issues in PVP. It could still lead to the same issues in PVE though where players flee horde night to their sky space as well.

Nerf Polling / Ladders

A little bit trickier to deal with but if you take away the hatch elevator system we are left with nerf polling and destroying ladders instead creating the same issue. Somebody suggested on a different topic about player threats that when a player knocks out a ladder all of the other ladders break. This could be one solution. Nerf polling could also be an option that can be switched on or off in the game menu. True Survival did it and it played just fine :-)

Hopefully that clears everything up for you Stallionsden and go play some PVP then come back to the PVP thread to discuss :-)

 
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Unfortunately dude I don't have time to Debate with you all day over a topic which you haven't even explored as a player. Notice we are in the PVP section now... How you choose to build and design in PVE I have no interest :-) If you want to discuss further I'll be more than happy to once you've done some PVP. With that said, you are right I'll explain the points I've raised and why they are a problem.

Hatch Elevator Exploit

I've copied my text from the A17 thread for you Stallionsden because you keep coming back with crap that I've already addressed. Raiding times are massively increased because of this exploit. There is currently no counter measure and in PVP every defence or offense needs a countermeasure or it becomes imbalanced.

Teleporting instantly through solid steel from one location to another causes major problems when it comes to balancing raiding. It's a big problem in multiplayer because players create 'safe spaces' that are inaccessible. It's a raid breaker. I expect it is also an issue in PVE because players can teleport themselves instantly to safety rather than fight hordes.

It's a cheap tactic to get from one place to another instantly. No exploit in the game is a good idea or smart. Players should be encouraged to design their bases well using the traps, tools and turrets available because right now they don't need to use any of those things with the hatch elevator making all of their loot inaccessible.

Let me lay out a stereotypical scenario for how this goes in a PVP environment just in case there are people who are inexperienced.

A player builds a tower base, surrounds it with a 5 block wide pit to bedrock. They've got multiple LCBs hidden in their tower at different locations providing only 16x protection. The LCB covers 40x40 which is standard now since electricity was brought in.

Lets say they build their entrance level with the ground that's at around +1 and you manage to find a way in (For the sake of this conversation this part can be easy when usually it's not). Bare in mind this tower goes to the maximum height of the map. I can't remember what this is... maybe +160 blocks. This means there is no jumping across.

When you get in all you find is a hollow space except for a hatch elevator in the centre that goes up 60+ blocks to the room in the sky. The only way up is to knock out the wall blocks and make stairs out of them. If every block takes you 10-15 minutes to knock out because they are solid steel you will be there all night and day doing it. @Stallionsden do you get from this alone why this is a huge problem? If raiding goes on for an entire day then you are basically telling the vast majority of the community that they can't do it and putting them at a huge disadvantage... and anyone who even has an entire day to do it, are they going to want to stare at steel / concrete for hours and hours listening to an auger for a bit of loot? Do you still think its fun? smart?

This is a fairly common approach to base design in PVP because it is enabled by exploits. As ever player starts to do this all that happens is players stop playing for two reasons;

- Raiding is not practical, worthwhile or fun

- Players get bored because they create an inaccessible safe space where there are no threats for them

Raiding in PVP is a fundamental part of the game. If you take that out then there is only PVE and the PVE on large pop servers is broken to hell. Naturally players will go for the easy safety option because that's the survival part of the game kicking in. Just like players in PVE hide underground at bedrock to avoid any threats. If that was me I'd just go play creative mode. This isn't 7 Days to hide....

I'm not saying I want raiding to be easy, I'm saying players should be rewarded for base designs that are actual good and NOT using exploits.

I appreciate that PVP isn't on the Fun Pimps priority list, but some small changes like eliminating the hatch elevator glitch would certainly help in both PVE and PVP environments.

One solution would be to make the hatch block take up 2 blocks (one block higher than it currently is). This would stop players building them directly on top of one another.

I'm all for an actual elevator but the devs should keep locks off it unless they intend on adding a lock picking tool because it will just lead to the same issues in PVP. It could still lead to the same issues in PVE though where players flee horde night to their sky space as well.

Nerf Polling / Ladders

A little bit trickier to deal with but if you take away the hatch elevator system we are left with nerf polling and destroying ladders instead creating the same issue. Somebody suggested on a different topic about player threats that when a player knocks out a ladder all of the other ladders break. This could be one solution. Nerf polling could also be an option that can be switched on or off in the game menu. True Survival did it and it played just fine :-)

Hopefully that clears everything up for you Stallionsden and go play some PVP then come back to the PVP thread to discuss :-)
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What this does is forces the player to connect rooms together and instead look at using actual clever base design techniques like trap rooms, fake rooms etc... Rather than just locking all their loot away from other players forever. Raiding and been raided is part of PVP.

 
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