The missed post from woodle

Damg, populism in this forum. First no PvP in someone`s needs, then moderators are "deployed".

And that from members from recent years, not from the far back when A15 was the best thing and if they are a real fans and were with us, they will know why ;)
 
beerfly said:
Damg, populism in this forum. First no PvP in someone`s needs, then moderators are "deployed".

And that from members from recent years, not from the far back when A15 was the best thing and if they are a real fans and were with us, they will know why ;)
Click to expand...
well to be fair, it is the zombie apocalypse pitting Duke vs the innocent survivors.
 
HammerDano said:
allow me to provide your reply to RyanX that I was responding to:


Implying...but not directly saying, that Apple PUNISHES people for the same thing.
Click to expand...

Huh? I made Apple the example because probably everyone has heard of their stance at one time or another. But in the same vein that I did not imply that TFP produces phones and sits in Cupertino I did not imply that TFP does EXACTLY the same things as Apple. In hindsight I should have used Blizzard as the example since Blizzard is well known here as well.

Why do you always try to read between my lines? There is nothing there. I am quite literal in my writing, I don' try to imply anything.

HammerDano said:
which is why I asked what would you like to see happen...to which you replied the following
Click to expand...
HammerDano said:
okay...idk why you even bothered to reply to him then.
Click to expand...

Easy to explain: He wrote that whoever would say that there was harm done is disingenious. And I replied to that. My opinion is that if TFP wanted to reveal that stuff at a specific time to generate some hype at the right moment, then there was harm done, not serious at all, but not nothing.

But at the same time it would be a negative outcome for TFP if they acted against Woodle, now or even at the next streamer weekend. I don't see any contradiction in this.

HammerDano said:
and where is it posted, by TFP, that they have asked Jawoodle repeatedly to take some or all of his video down? I'd love to read a real source on this, but, in the absence of such information, I think what I have been saying is a lot more accurate:
Click to expand...

By TFP? Why would they post that to the world? Didn't that info come from Jawoodle?

HammerDano said:
Yup...but it is circumstantial.

it IS that this IS getting dragged out here...in a thread with more than one Moderator participating.
and Woodle is back to making content about force fields...a subject he has left alone for years.

I did not assert that I am right that this IS staged conflict...just that NONE of us knows what really happened behind the scenes.

This thread should have, and would have, died awhile ago...instead of being kept alive by posts like yours...and this one to answer it.
Click to expand...

Sure. I have an opinion like everyone else. And I post that opinion. People on forums do that. And when someone puts words into my mouth I have to reply anyway.
 
Take the time to read the entirety of what I wrote before responding. Thanks.

It looked like the Pimps had turned a customer relations corner and were done attacking their fans. Now they have literally disgraced themselves with this premeditated attack on JaWoodle. An attack caused by either their own intentional action or their own mistake. So like a petulant child it appears the Pimps struck out instead of holding up a hand and saying. Our bad. But thanks JaWoodle for driving up so much good will with your positive post on our hard work. It may not be finished or even done the way your posted. So be aware it is still a work in progress. That is not what they did.

Unfortunately, this clearly falls in Fair Use and not under copyright. His Channel is a game news channel especially when concerning the new release of 3.0. No judge or jury would ever rule against him. The Fun Pimps would be liable for all of his lost revenue for enforcing a devastating copyright strike on him for their mistake. Which shows malice aforethought. I am not a lawyer. Ignore my opinion about law. But this smells and TFP and Behavior need to get out front of this.

Public Apologies need to be made immediately and this needs to be fixed. 3.0 made me have a real good feeling. Watching JaWoodle's youtube with the chicken coop, bandits and bell made me happy and excited again. I have personally bought over ten copies of this game and given them to friends and family. Including Xbox and PC versions. I have thousands and thousands of hours playing this game. I support this game. I have bought shirts, mouse pads, coffee table cup holders. Etc.

This looks bad. It smells bad. It is petty. Worse it is wrong on a fundamental level. I hope TFP has enough balls to just bite the bullet, hold up a hand and say my bad. And fix it. Behavior for sure should look at this, especially if they did not have a hand in this decision and step in and fix it. The community loves JaWoodle. JaWoodle literally sells games for TFP/Behavior.

I hope this is fixed. This is TFP's fault for giving people the wrong copy. This is TFP's fault for attacking a person who was doing exactly what he was asked to do by TFP. TFP saw the positive results that person was achieving. Once again TFP made the morally obvious wrong choice with how they responded. But that is my opinion. I hope this get's solved.

I have been here since Alpha 13. Still playing over fifty hours a week in the game. Still hoping the game gets finished. Doubt I will ever spend another dime on DLC or Merch after this incident unless it gets fixed right. Sad but true. I am the customer that makes you money. I am the customer that supports you above and beyond. Yet, after this?

Please TFP/Behavior do the right thing.
 
I'm not reading through every post here, but my take on the situation:
  • Did TFP accidentally release code to streamers that included bandits and the chicken coop? Yes
  • Did JaWoodle post that content thinking it was completely within his right to do so? Yes
  • Does TFP own the content that JaWoodle posted? Yes
  • Does TFP have every right to request that content be edited or removed? Yes
  • Did JaWoodle comply with that request? No
  • Does TFP have every right to forcefully take that content down? Yes
Like or not, JaWoodle does not have ownership of the 7DTD content he posts. In fact, he makes money off the work that TFP puts into the game. If they formally requested the content be removed, he should have simply complied. Now, because of his ego, he's risking the relationship he's built with TFP. I say all of this as a fan and long-time viewer of his channel.
 
Actually, TFP owns the IP, they released the content to JaWoodle specifically for him to use Fair Use to report on it and as a marketing tool to build interest in the game. JaWoodle does so using his channel and views to make money for himself as well as to promote 7 Days to Die. The point is, JaWoodle and TFP/Behavior had a deal. Jawoodle did the work they agreed upon. Thru no malice or intent did JaWoodle do anything but what he was asked. His stream was incredibly successful and drove up interest. What was not right was TFP's response. By asking him to remove it or edit it. They are literally breaking the agreement they made with him to stream it in the first place. Knowing it will cost him money. But that is just my opinion. The problem with things like this is, we don't know the actual communication that happened. But this looks bad for TFP, no matter what. They lose goodwill.
 
My understanding of the situation is that the wrong build was sent. Woodle is unaware and thinks nothing of posting what he found in the game files and made content of it. Finds out after content is posted that he had the wrong build. TFP requests he take down said content, which he refuses, thus leaving TFP no other option than to issue copyright strike on that specific video.

There is fault on both ends here, though it does start with the wrong build being sent to him. I don't buy the idea of him being the target of a witch hunt because I'm sure there's a LOT of his videos detailing "exploits" that the devs don't like, be it god blocks or zombie pathing or whatever. They could've cracked down on those, but instead simply went about finding ways to fix those (for better or worse).

The real tragedy here is seeing actual bandits in game via that video had me stoked for what they could potentially be. It was obvious to me they are still WIP.

I do wonder if it would appear TFP were playing favs if they let Jawoodle keep that video up of content no one else got to see. I can see that being part of the reasoning for wanting it taken down.

Hopefully cool heads prevail and we get to see the chicken coop soon and bandits ..well probably not so soon but still, lol. Meanwhile Woodle keeps on making content for what is probably one of his all time fav games.
 
Syphon, first threatening a copyright strike, then actually giving one on Youtube etc. Is an attack. Because it literally takes money away from JaWoodle. Literally and physically takes not only money for that video, but future videos too. So business attack is more accurate. But I would even go so far to say retaliatory attack. Meaning, they made a mistake, then punished a person that was not responsible. After gaining all the good press and benefits of JaWoodle's work. So like I said. I hope TFP come forward and fix this quickly. They are losing good will incredibly fast at this point. For an obvious error on their part. Worse it looks now like possible intent was involved since not every streamer got that version. And the fact that those specific things were one's JaWoodle has been most excited about and been asking for. It was so tailor made for him, it makes you question motives and actions. But please fix this.
 
wwiiogre said:
By asking him to remove it or edit it. They are literally breaking the agreement they made with him to stream it in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'm not a lawyer. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you aren't either. But even so, have you read the agreement between the two parties? How do you know they broke the agreement?

No, JaWoodle had no ill intent, but TFP still owns the content.
Post automatically merged:

wwiiogre said:
first threatening a copyright strike
Click to expand...
That's not an attack. That's TFP protecting their IP. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say they threatened it after they requested him to edit the content, to which he declined.
 
So let me understand this.

The fun pimps screw up and send Jawoodle the wrong code and he see a build that wasn't meant to go out yet and makes a video or two.

People see early stuff they are totally aware is coming and know full well it's still being worked on.

So rather then talk to the guy they kick him out of the creator program and copyright strike him for a mistake they made?!!!!

Exactly who thought that was a good idea?

Everyone already knew what was in development and this had no negative effect tell you pulled this stunt.

One would think getting free press for whats to come would be considered good and free feedback on what works and what doesn't so you don't waste time on something people don't like would be great...like subnautica.

There are so many better ways this could have been handled but someone thought lets go with the worst possible one and ■■■■ of the customers in the process.
 
Its amazing that these folks couldn't release an experimental build to a select group of folks without screwing it up somehow and causing themselves PR problems a few weeks after the fact but as usual they found a way.
 
Magnus33john said:
People see early stuff they are totally aware is coming and know full well it's still being worked on.

So rather then talk to the guy they kick him out of the creator program and copyright strike him for a mistake they made?!!!!
Click to expand...
As I and probably others have stated a few times now, TFP did talk to him. They asked him to edit out the bandit/coop content or remove the videos entirely. He refused to do either. After a about a month they sent out a copyright claim. He had a choice, and he had time. He chose to not do what TFP asked.

And as I also said before, I think the main issue TFP had was he framed the video(title/thumbnail) to make it seem like the content was coming in 3.0's first release. Obviously the bandits aren't going to be in any 3.x.x build, and the coop is looking likely to be in 3.1.0 or whatever they call the next build. Still not 3.0 though. Yes, he did admit in the middle of his video that bandits weren't meant to be in 3.0, but if you saw the original title and thumbnail you'll know he was trying to clickbait for views, whether he admits that or not.

Yes, TFP made a mistake, but so did Woodle. Woodle was given a chance to correct his and he chose not to. Now he is dealing with the consequences of that choice. I don't have a side here as I like both him and TFP, but if you are given access to early builds by a dev to make content(his job, ya know?) and they ask you to take down footage of content they didn't mean to be shown, you should probably do that. People can argue about how much exposure he has given the game, which is absolutely true, but where would his YT channel be without 7 Days?
 
unless you...or anyone else in this thread...actually read the correspondence between Jaoodle and TFP (and took some pics for proof) you don't really "know" much of anything. Especially from the TFP side. Jawoodle still has not said much of anything concrete either.

Personally looking forward to seeing THAT vid...IF it ever does make the light of day.

I still think that circumstantially...this looks bad on TFP/BHVR. Petty.

That old saying about "all press is good press" just isn't true.

funny how they have time for this BS, but, not to put out that updated roadmap @madmole said they would 7 months ago.
 
Provide a copy of the NDA and/or content creator agreement showing bandits and chicken coops were not to be shown and all ill-will toward TFP goes away.

If there wasn't one, Jawoodle, whether you like him or not, was completely legally allowed to keep his videos up.

It may, however, alter his relationship with TFP if he doesn't adjust his video as requested, but that should be the end of it.

If, however, there was no NDA or the content creator agreement isn't rock solid, it would be malicious (potentially to a criminal degree) to illegitimately place a copyright strike against Jawoodle. If this is what happened, Jawoodle would be well within his rights to sue for any legal expenses, lost revenue and further hardship.

In my opinion, if there was no NDA or binding agreement about zombies, the best route for TFP is to forget their ego, remove the copyright strike and apologize to Jawoodle. If they also wish to remove him from the content creator program, an amicable separation could happen. But update your content creator agreement and/or NDA to cover your backside in the future.

Advice is purely informational and does not take the place of professional legal counsel.
I am not licensed to practice law in any state.
 
respite82 said:
Provide a copy of the NDA and/or content creator agreement showing bandits and chicken coops were not to be shown and all ill-will toward TFP goes away.
Click to expand...
I'd seriously doubt that was in any agreement they had because they didn't mean for it to be in the build at all. But if there is an agreement I'd have to imagine there's some general language for TFP to have final say over what can or cannot be shown. I'm certainly no lawyer but I'd bet TFP/BHVR wouldn't be doing this if they thought they had a chance to lose if Woodle pushed back.
 
Without seeing the agreement I can't comment on anything specific, but if the build used in the video was provided by TFP, even in error, there's going to be a high bar to prove he did anything illegal in using his footage. A mistake by TFP doesn't require Jawoodle to do extra work to correct their error.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top