The missed post from woodle

[Jost Amman]

I look at it somewhat like losing my wallet. Someone finds it, and I ask for it back.

Well, it's more like someone taking a picture of me, and later me asking him to delete said picture because there's my kid in it and I don't want that picture to be published all over the place.

If he refused I'd be, let's say, very upset about it.
I can't break his camera, but I'd certainly give him the middle finger.

 

[Dark Sun]

Well, it's more like someone taking a picture of me, and later me asking him to delete said picture because there's my kid in it and I don't want that picture to be published all over the place.

If he refused I'd be, let's say, very upset about it.
I can't break his camera, but I'd certainly give him the middle finger.

Not 100% comparable. Your example is far more, how do I put it? Personal?
Let's compare this directly, as close as possible. An advertising agency you're using a free marketing makes a clickbait article on your store, promoting spoilers and falsehoods (say, about some products you're going to receive intended for sale). You request them to take it down, multiple times. They say, um, nah, damage is done/we're still making money/etc.

 

[theFlu]

An advertising agency you're using a free marketing makes a clickbait article on your store, promoting spoilers and falsehoods

WIP != falsehoods ... promoting falsehoods = fraud, possibly criminal fraud. ... "ad agency as free marketing" sounds like an oxymoron, unless you're Coke, and even then you pay for the ads you actually run... this doesn't feel close enough to be useful. Or common enough to be of common sense. Or possible

 

[Dark Sun]

WIP != falsehoods ... promoting falsehoods = fraud, possibly criminal fraud. ... "ad agency as free marketing" sounds like an oxymoron, unless you're Coke, and even then you pay for the ads you actually run... this doesn't feel close enough to be useful. Or common enough to be of common sense. Or possible

Fair enough, I was multitasking while hurriedly writing this lol

 

[HammerDano]

good grief

we don't reaallly know much, if any, actual details...most of what we do "know" is hearsay at best.

love how people are acting like woodle was clearly acting in malice, but, won't/can't admit that they don't know, and never will know, for sure, what happened between both parties. that there is some chance there is something they just don't know.

I wonder how many people bought this game because of his content?
I wonder how many people thought the Devs were really "involved" and paying attention to the community, when they were obviously watching his content and patching out his "force field" blocks?

I think something happened behind the scenes...woodle is back to making vids about blocks and "exploits"...I honestly think this whole thing "we" are arguing about is just manufactured drama. The more it drags out...the more I think it is for mutual benefit.

 

[Rotor]

The more it drags out...the more I think it is for mutual benefit.

Someone said something similar a few posts back .

 

[meganoth]

comparing THIS to Apple IP?

I simply provided an example to show that sometimes, maybe even often times companies want to reveal stuff by themselves or at a specific date, without making it look like an accident. Apple is just a glaring example to show that companies want to guard their secrets, but look around: Most game companies guard the stuff they are working on until they show it at game events or release it bit by bit on their own schedule.
In reality I would say that most reveals by game companies are done by themselves, and most accidental reveals are actually accidents or insiders who want to earn some coin. That doesn't mean that sometimes those accidents are on purpose, but they are the exception.

THEY SENT OUT THE DOWNLOAD...to a guy known for digging thru the code.

It just happened that he got the version that had Bells that go Bong? he's been wanting THAT for a dogs age. plus it showed there is at least ONE new sound event.
He showed the world that Bandits do exist...and people gave their feedback...and TFP didn't get shredded for it.



What do you think should happen? since you seem to believe some harm has been done.

Nothing. Streisand effect. That doesn't mean that TFP has to like what happened (IF they didn't do it on purpose, but I think that has a low probability)

I simply don't assume anything. But I put probabilities on what could have happened. There have been cases of orchestrated reveals looking like accidents. There have also been lots and lots of reveals by game companies on their schedule. When was the last time that you saw in-game footage of a blizzard game before blizzard revealed it themselves at their own con? I can't remember a single occurance.

IMHO accidental reveals are more common in Hollywood where actors on the road to oblivion try to get themselves back on the tabloids, sometimes even with bad press. It works very well there. But compare that to the situation of a game company: There is not much difference between revealing a picture of a bandit by giving it out to a streamer on purpose and by orchestrating an accident. Except the latter has the small chance of being found out and making it worse usually.

 

[meganoth]

It's a losing proposition for TFP/BI because if they pursue it, it shines a light on their own incompetence for sending it out. It's one of those situations where you accept the fact that you slipped up and own it. Otherwise you become the bad guy.

And either that seems to be the case, as nothing has happened to Woodle as far as we know. Or it was a plot. Or they wait until the next streamer weekend and simply don't invite him.

No fear, I am sure TFP knows the Streisand effect as well.

 

[meganoth]

I think something happened behind the scenes...woodle is back to making vids about blocks and "exploits"...I honestly think this whole thing "we" are arguing about is just manufactured drama. The more it drags out...the more I think it is for mutual benefit.

WE here are dragging it out (needlessly). But you make it sound like TFP is doing it to generate hype, to bolster your theory. Can you give me just one example where TFP or Woodle has done any dragging out?

 

[HammerDano]

I simply provided an example to show that sometimes, maybe even often times companies want to reveal stuff by themselves or at a specific date, without making it look like an accident. Apple is just a glaring example to show that companies want to guard their secrets, but look around: Most game companies guard the stuff they are working on until they show it at game events or release it bit by bit on their own schedule.
In reality I would say that most reveals by game companies are done by themselves, and most accidental reveals are actually accidents or insiders who want to earn some coin. That doesn't mean that sometimes those accidents are on purpose, but they are the exception.

allow me to provide your reply to RyanX that I was responding to:

Obviously TFP is not too happy about it, or they wouldn't have asked him repeatedly.

If you think there is no harm, then let me ask you: Why is Apple guarding its new iphones and other gadgets so much before they are able to reveal them themselves? Even prosecuting whoever leaks it and people who publish it. Maybe for the same reason.

Implying...but not directly saying, that Apple PUNISHES people for the same thing.

which is why I asked what would you like to see happen...to which you replied the following

Nothing. Streisand effect. That doesn't mean that TFP has to like what happened (IF they didn't do it on purpose, but I think that has a low probability)

okay...idk why you even bothered to reply to him then. and where is it posted, by TFP, that they have asked Jawoodle repeatedly to take some or all of his video down? I'd love to read a real source on this, but, in the absence of such information, I think what I have been saying is a lot more accurate:

good grief

we don't reaallly know much, if any, actual details...most of what we do "know" is hearsay at best.

love how people are acting like woodle was clearly acting in malice, but, won't/can't admit that they don't know, and never will know, for sure, what happened between both parties. that there is some chance there is something they just don't know.

I wonder how many people bought this game because of his content?
I wonder how many people thought the Devs were really "involved" and paying attention to the community, when they were obviously watching his content and patching out his "force field" blocks?

I think something happened behind the scenes...woodle is back to making vids about blocks and "exploits"...I honestly think this whole thing "we" are arguing about is just manufactured drama. The more it drags out...the more I think it is for mutual benefit

I simply don't assume anything. But I put probabilities on what could have happened. There have been cases of orchestrated reveals looking like accidents. There have also been lots and lots of reveals by game companies on their schedule. When was the last time that you saw in-game footage of a blizzard game before blizzard revealed it themselves at their own con? I can't remember a single occurance.

IMHO accidental reveals are more common in Hollywood where actors on the road to oblivion try to get themselves back on the tabloids, sometimes even with bad press. It works very well there. But compare that to the situation of a game company: There is not much difference between revealing a picture of a bandit by giving it out to a streamer on purpose and by orchestrating an accident. Except the latter has the small chance of being found out and making it worse usually.

WE here are dragging it out (needlessly). But you make it sound like TFP is doing it to generate hype, to bolster your theory. Can you give me just one example where TFP or Woodle has done any dragging out?

Yup...but it is circumstantial.

it IS that this IS getting dragged out here...in a thread with more than one Moderator participating.
and Woodle is back to making content about force fields...a subject he has left alone for years.

I did not assert that I am right that this IS staged conflict...just that NONE of us knows what really happened behind the scenes.

This thread should have, and would have, died awhile ago...instead of being kept alive by posts like yours...and this one to answer it.

 

[JustBrowsing]

allow me to provide your reply to RyanX that I was responding to:


Implying...but not directly saying, that Apple PUNISHES people for the same thing.

which is why I asked what would you like to see happen...to which you replied the following

okay...idk why you even bothered to reply to him then. and where is it posted, by TFP, that they have asked Jawoodle repeatedly to take some or all of his video down? I'd love to read a real source on this, but, in the absence of such information, I think what I have been saying is a lot more accurate:



Yup...but it is circumstantial.

it IS that this IS getting dragged out here...in a thread with more than one Moderator participating.
and Woodle is back to making content about force fields...a subject he has left alone for years.

I did not assert that I am right that this IS staged conflict...just that NONE of us knows what really happened behind the scenes.

This thread should have, and would have, died awhile ago...instead of being kept alive by posts like yours...and this one to answer it.

Looks like the horse ain't dead yet. Good reply. Even I can see there is some extra attention on this one. Whether orchestrated or organic, not sure but it does seem to break the sounds barrier.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@HammerDano A moderator dragging it out is not the same as TFP dragging it out. Moderators do voluntary work on the forums for free and are not employed by TFP. They do not represent TFP on the forums, their job as moderators is only to enforce forum rules. They also don´t know more than us usually. (Roland as community moderator does sometimes but only gets some bits here and there if needed)

 

[JustBrowsing]

@HammerDano A moderator dragging it out is not the same as TFP dragging it out. Moderators do voluntary work on the forums for free and are not employed by TFP. They do not represent TFP on the forums, their job as moderators is only to enforce forum rules. They also don´t know more than us usually. (Roland as community moderator does sometimes but only gets some bits here and there if needed)

While I'm not arguing your very valid point I do have a element of contrast. Forum moderators are "employed" for lack of a better word. Maybe "deployed" is a better word. Moderators are deployed across the forums to enforce forum policy which is derived from TFP administrative decision. So while moderators are not TFP they are the direct tool of TFP to enforce what TFP wants. In essence, moderators literally decide who can and who cannot post and as such they decide what can or won't be posted. So, any action a moderator takes can be directly drawn back to the power they have been trusted with and use according to expectation. A power that ultimately decides who becomes a long term interactive fan of the game forum or a short term disgruntled participant who moves on from the game. So, from my point of view, the moderators, while doing forum work for free, are still working according to direction whether verbally or by policy and they don't kick dead horses in the head like me.

 

[theFlu]

and they don't kick dead horses in the head like me.

Sounds like you're new around these parts of town ...

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@JustBrowsing They do not represent any opions of TFP, other than those they agree with ofc, nor do they enforce any policy that TFP wants besides the forum rules and those didn´t change in the last years or not a lot at least. A moderators job is not to form opinions. That´s what a community manager is for.

There have been a lot of posts from mods that are the opposite of what the devs think/want and also a good amount of criticism on decisions that TFP made.

A moderator posting here is a representation of his opinion. That´s it. Sure there is moderators, not on here but generally in forums/discords, that will support the devs opinions no matter what and no matter how fast those change, but those are places to avoid tbh.

You will find more normal users that are white knighting hardcore for TFP here than there are mods on this forum.

 

[Dark Sun]

@JustBrowsing They do not represent any opions of TFP, other than those they agree with ofc, nor do they enforce any policy that TFP wants besides the forum rules and those didn´t change in the last years or not a lot at least. A moderators job is not to form opinions. That´s what a community manager is for.

There have been a lot of posts from mods that are the opposite of what the devs think/want and also a good amount of criticism on decisions that TFP made.

A moderator posting here is a representation of his opinion. That´s it. Sure there is moderators, not on here but generally in forums/discords, that will support the devs opinions no matter what and no matter how fast those change, but those are places to avoid tbh.

Besides, even an official employee does not speak for the company. Community managers, to a degree, yes, but they're still on that same leash. They just serve as talking heads, to some extent AFAIK. If you want to know the true opinions over at TFP, ask Rick and Joel, or to be more accurate nowadays, whoever is in charge of BI.

 

[JustBrowsing]

@JustBrowsing They do not represent any opions of TFP, other than those they agree with ofc, nor do they enforce any policy that TFP wants besides the forum rules and those didn´t change in the last years or not a lot at least. A moderators job is not to form opinions. That´s what a community manager is for.

There have been a lot of posts from mods that are the opposite of what the devs think/want and also a good amount of criticism on decisions that TFP made.

A moderator posting here is a representation of his opinion. That´s it. Sure there is moderators, not on here but generally in forums/discords, that will support the devs opinions no matter what and no matter how fast those change, but those are places to avoid tbh.

You will find more normal users that are white knighting hardcore for TFP here than there are mods on this forum.

Fair enough. Like I said I didn't intend to disagree with your valid point. Just adding a bit of contrast.

Post automatically merged: 42 minutes ago

Besides, even an official employee does not speak for the company. Community managers, to a degree, yes, but they're still on that same leash. They just serve as talking heads, to some extent AFAIK. If you want to know the true opinions over at TFP, ask Rick and Joel, or to be more accurate nowadays, whoever is in charge of BI.

By spirit of the "deployment" while certain forum members, even employees do not officially speak for the company, they certainly lay down the law in a manner they believe is what the "company" wants. This is natural behavior to perform your work as the manager per say wants it done and where a policy does not exist to guide a specific decision the er moderator must make a judgement choice ergo decision to kick that horse squarely in the head when down.

 

[HammerDano]

y'all are dangerously close to breaking the rules about discussing moderators or their actions...just saying

Besides, even an official employee does not speak for the company. Community managers, to a degree, yes, but they're still on that same leash. They just serve as talking heads, to some extent AFAIK. If you want to know the true opinions over at TFP, ask Rick and Joel, or to be more accurate nowadays, whoever is in charge of BI.

that is just silly...Community Managers? they don't have one....the new guys are looking for one that can handle the live service environment.
Ask Rick and Joel? they don't actually hang out on here... do they? Just ask and they'll tell you? that's the funniest thing I've read on here for a while.


***This part is for everyone***

whether anyone likes it or not... ANYONE with an Official Forum name tag "works" for TFP...in some capacity. Whether they talk out of their ■■■ or are actually in the know.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@HammerDano Nah, we are way closer to being far off topic right now, as we do not discuss actual moderating decisions we aren´t in any trouble other than this maybe getting closed for off topic. It´s fine to discuss the role of a moderator, as long as we aren´t talking about one of them and his actions/posts regarding moderation actions specifically.

"Publicly visible responses to or discussion of forum moderation." is what is not allowed. Same as stating who you have on your block list or what post you reported etc. That´s what´s gonna get you in trouble.

 

[HammerDano]

@HammerDano Nah, we are way closer to being far off topic right now, as we do not discuss actual moderating decisions. It´s fine to discuss the role of a moderator, as long as we aren´t talking about one of them and his actions/posts regarding moderation actions specifically.

"Publicly visible responses to or discussion of forum moderation." is what is not allowed. Same as stating who you have on your block list or what post you reported etc. That´s what´s gonna get you in trouble.

Nope...not today "Satan"...you are not tempting me. lol